Raptor motor in MB and Moomba- report please

Ok so the engines are CARB certified @the 400 Raptor being 349 actual HP and the 440 Raptor is 396 HP. CARB is the California Air and Resource Board. All engine manufactures have to turn over all engines to them so they can run tests on their machine to get actual ratings and make sure they pass California emissions standards. This is a fair test because all engines are done on the same machine. One Dyno may read different from the next so there is no cheating this test. The GM 6.0L is actually 361 HP and the GM 6.2L is 402 HP. My understanding that the only difference between the 400 and 440 is a chip that gets some extra performance but it is the same exact engine. That last statement again is hear say but from what I would consider a pretty good source.

Originally Posted by JWalk

Ok so the engines are CARB certified @the 400 Raptor being 349 actual HP and the 440 Raptor is 396 HP. CARB is the California Air and Resource Board. All engine manufactures have to turn over all engines to them so they can run tests on their machine to get actual ratings and make sure they pass California emissions standards. This is a fair test because all engines are done on the same machine. One Dyno may read different from the next so there is no cheating this test. The GM 6.0L is actually 361 HP and the GM 6.2L is 402 HP. My understanding that the only difference between the 400 and 440 is a chip that gets some extra performance but it is the same exact engine. That last statement again is hear say but from what I would consider a pretty good source.

Not a correct statement on CARB data. Each mariner uses their own testing on their own dyno to generate the data for CARB and EPA. CARB does not perform the test. They accept the data from each company. Further, each company can decide how to run the engines to generate the data they provide. For example, the rpm at which the engine is run. Some companies may turn it to 5600 while another only 5400. Makes a difference on the data submitted to CARB. Some may use 93 oct fuel and others use 87. Makes a difference too.

As for the differences between the 400 and 440, there is some difference in content in addition to a difference in the calibration. About the same as the differences between a base 5.7 and a premium 5.7. On the 5.7, there is a difference in the tune along with a few items different in the bill of materials. Same for the Ford 400/440. Not only that but there IS a performance difference between the 400 and the 440 with the 440 being able to handle larger boats or larger loads than the 400.

Originally Posted by Kjkimball

Not a correct statement on CARB data. Each mariner uses their own testing on their own dyno to generate the data for CARB and EPA. CARB does not perform the test. They accept the data from each company. Further, each company can decide how to run the engines to generate the data they provide. For example, the rpm at which the engine is run. Some companies may turn it to 5600 while another only 5400. Makes a difference on the data submitted to CARB. Some may use 93 oct fuel and others use 87. Makes a difference too.

As for the differences between the 400 and 440, there is some difference in content in addition to a difference in the calibration. About the same as the differences between a base 5.7 and a premium 5.7. On the 5.7, there is a difference in the tune along with a few items different in the bill of materials. Same for the Ford 400/440. Not only that but there IS a performance difference between the 400 and the 440 with the 440 being able to handle larger boats or larger loads than the 400.

See its funny because one manufacturer tells me one thing and the next is totally different. I had believed for years that each company submitted the results to CARB but was recently taught different. I guess the main thing is that it performs well at the best fuel economy possible. I just found it odd that it took this much homework to find a HP rating. Most companies fudge the # by 10% but at least they advertise something. For me HP is what I need to know, I have been selling inboards for 10 years and have not one time been asked for the torque that I can remember.

Originally Posted by JWalk

See its funny because one manufacturer tells me one thing and the next is totally different. I had believed for years that each company submitted the results to CARB but was recently taught different. I guess the main thing is that it performs well at the best fuel economy possible. I just found it odd that it took this much homework to find a HP rating. Most companies fudge the # by 10% but at least they advertise something. For me HP is what I need to know, I have been selling inboards for 10 years and have not one time been asked for the torque that I can remember.

I know Indmar runs the tests and submits the data to CARB and EPA. A friend of mine is the guy at Indmar that submits the data. Indmar hasn't posted HP ratings for the GM engines. In the past, the boat companies advertise the HP and some do stretch the truth as you suggest but it isn't Indmar fudging the numbers.

HP is what the buying public has been taught to care about even though it is a derived number from torque and rpm. A Mazda rotary engine can make 700 plus hp in racing trim but it wouldn't do well pushing a loaded wake boat because it has relatively low torque for the HP. A diesel engine can have 600-800 fl-lb torque yet only 180-200hp. The torque is a better number to know to understand the work the engine can do.