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Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-21-2011, 7:19 PM Reply   
Ok. Here's the deal. Believe me if you want to or don't. I don't care. However, I'll assure you that I have reliable sources and first hand experience relative to the vtx/a22 hulls and wakes. The a20 hull IS NOT THE SAME as the vtx hull. New molds were required (hull and deck) to produce the a20. Changes were made to the molds to accomplish the intentions behind the a20, which were to enhance aspects of the wake that many people wanted enhanced, and to tweak the surf wave. There are pros and cons of all changes. Suffice to say that the changes were purposeful. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with the vtx hull. It an amazing all around shape - great for wakeboarding, great for surfing, definitely skiable too. The vtx and a20 are simply different boats, marketed differently, developed with varying influences, and are made using DIFFERENT HULLS.

The changes we are talking about are not going to be discernible from just pictures of boats on trailers or on skids. It's not like axis added some compartment full of fairy dust and the eyelashes of baby sealions that you will be able point to in a picture.

As for cost, there was no extra cost. New molds had to be made anyway. Some changes were made before the plugs were cut and the molds were produced. We're talking adjustments made in a computer program designed to accomodate changes by highly trained and experienced engineers who do this stuff for a living. It's not like a team of nuclear physicists had to be flown in and were required to build a new mold from elephant tusks using diamond encrusted surgical instruments. Malibu changes almost all of their hulls every four years or so anyway. Those guys know what they're doing. The assumption that making tweaks to a hull is cost prohibitive is just not correct. That's all I'm saying.
Old     (trentj6930)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-21-2011, 9:09 PM Reply   
Here is the white Vandall A22 we had in Edmonton this weekend.

Old     (rt360)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-22-2011, 3:36 AM Reply   
It looks okay but kind of plain.Needs more accents or a second color.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-22-2011, 5:19 AM Reply   
Nah. That white is SICK! I love the look of the solid colored axis boats - especially white and black. My friend David's got a solid white A20 coming in this month with no decals on it at all. Can't wait to post pics of it!
Old     (tampawake)      Join Date: Mar 2008       03-22-2011, 8:25 AM Reply   
Love the white I would take off the skeleton hand. Love all black and all white boats.
Old     (trentj6930)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-22-2011, 10:16 AM Reply   
I have to apologize for the crappy photo. It is actually really sharp! It was sold to a very happy damily at the show!
Old     (AP)      Join Date: Mar 2010       03-22-2011, 10:28 AM Reply   
Whats up Trent!! Its Adam...Good hanging with you in Edmonton...

That A22 was killer, im a big fan of the solid colored boats... =D
Old     (trentj6930)      Join Date: Oct 2007       03-22-2011, 10:40 AM Reply   
Hey Adam, how was the flight home? Got a job opening for me?
Old     (davenk)      Join Date: Feb 2008       03-22-2011, 11:00 AM Reply   
I have an 09' Tige' Z1 and love it, we looked at Axis in addition to many other brands and went with Tige' - just seemd like a better quality boat and the dealership was very helpful. Most boats these days all are built fairly solid but every one has different fit and finish. It is also important to have a good relationship with your dealer as well. If you are in Texas check out Texas Tige!
Old     (dellagucci)      Join Date: Aug 2009       03-23-2011, 12:55 PM Reply   
SANTE 210 if you want the best
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-23-2011, 1:27 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dellagucci View Post
SANTE 210 if you want the best
The best what? obviously original poster isn't looking to spend 85k
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-26-2011, 6:33 AM Reply   
Btw a 210 is about the same size as an a20, and does throw an amazing wake, but it is twice the cost. Great boat for sure. I quit buying nautiques after 3 years, in large part, because of so many price increases and because of the new tower.
Old     (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       03-26-2011, 12:03 PM Reply   
buy a BLUE SANTE if you want the best best...
Old     (johnny_defacto)      Join Date: Sep 2006       03-26-2011, 12:19 PM Reply   
chattwake, sent you a "pm"...i think, not sure which inbox it will be in, check both.

Also, all joking aside... if you want "the best" of nautiques, observation would have to lead one to believe the san 230 would be "the best" because most all the pro's that ride nautique (save scott byerly and maybe a couple others) all have 230's.
Old     (chattwake)      Join Date: Jan 2010       03-26-2011, 6:24 PM Reply   
I disagree. I owned 3 230s. When weighed heavy mine always washed bad. I never could get the wake to cooperate. The 210 wake is much much less temperamental. Byerly rides a 210. Jd may have a 230, but he puts like 6k in that boat and rides at like 25+ mph. No one I know wants to ride that fast at 80+ feet. Most people just want a nice clean wake when weighed heavy at 22-23.5 mph at 70-80ft.
Old     (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       03-26-2011, 8:00 PM Reply   
I agree chattwake you can't compare what a pro would use and say it's best for average joe.Most guys and girls i see in competition ride 75' or less and don't throw tricks near as big as the pro's.
Old     (mikeakatex5)      Join Date: Jun 2009       03-27-2011, 6:15 PM Reply   
Well to update for all of you... I demoed the Tige this morning and was very impressed. This thing drove like a dream. I wasn't too sure what to expect out of 20ft boats as far as wakes and surf waves. The wake with stock ballast and 3 people in the boat was really clean and had good size. The surf wave with the same ballast and the same people blew me away. I've been really sick, so there was no way I was going to be able to ride, which sucked because it turned out to be the first nice day in CA in weeks. I'm setting up the A20 demo for this week/weekend.
***Pictures never do wakes justice***
Attached Images
    
Old     (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       03-27-2011, 6:51 PM Reply   
Looks Awesome Mike. Hope you get well soon and keep us posted.Love the pics.
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-27-2011, 8:01 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeakatex5 View Post
Well to update for all of you... I demoed the Tige this morning and was very impressed. This thing drove like a dream. I wasn't too sure what to expect out of 20ft boats as far as wakes and surf waves. The wake with stock ballast and 3 people in the boat was really clean and had good size. The surf wave with the same ballast and the same people blew me away. I've been really sick, so there was no way I was going to be able to ride, which sucked because it turned out to be the first nice day in CA in weeks. I'm setting up the A20 demo for this week/weekend.
***Pictures never do wakes justice***
Nice wakes, what ballast setup did this tige have?
Old     (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       03-27-2011, 8:24 PM Reply   
i would go with the tige....hands down. I looked at an Axis this weekend, I really wasnt too impressed.
Old     (mikeakatex5)      Join Date: Jun 2009       03-27-2011, 10:53 PM Reply   
This Tige had the surf ballast. 400# in the bow and 600# in each locker. All but one of the surf pics are with the rear sacs set at 50% because my boat would only have the basic ballast set up with 250# in each rear locker. However, the extra weight in the rear is just sacs piggy backed to the tanks, which is an easy upgrade I can do myself. The boat drove great weighted down, but did start to hop a bit when all the rear sacs were full and I went over 20mph. Nothing a bow rider wouldn't fix.
Old     (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       03-27-2011, 11:00 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeakatex5 View Post
This Tige had the surf ballast. 400# in the bow and 600# in each locker. All but one of the surf pics are with the rear sacs set at 50% because my boat would only have the basic ballast set up with 250# in each rear locker. However, the extra weight in the rear is just sacs piggy backed to the tanks, which is an easy upgrade I can do myself. The boat drove great weighted down, but did start to hop a bit when all the rear sacs were full and I went over 20mph. Nothing a bow rider wouldn't fix.
adjusting the taps will fix that as well.
Old     (cjh1669)      Join Date: Apr 2005       03-28-2011, 7:46 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeakatex5 View Post
This Tige had the surf ballast. 400# in the bow and 600# in each locker. All but one of the surf pics are with the rear sacs set at 50% because my boat would only have the basic ballast set up with 250# in each rear locker. However, the extra weight in the rear is just sacs piggy backed to the tanks, which is an easy upgrade I can do myself. The boat drove great weighted down, but did start to hop a bit when all the rear sacs were full and I went over 20mph. Nothing a bow rider wouldn't fix.
Does it have any mid ship ballast or just bow and in the lockers?
Old     (mikeakatex5)      Join Date: Jun 2009       03-28-2011, 9:32 AM Reply   
Just bow and lockers
Old     (mikeakatex5)      Join Date: Jun 2009       03-28-2011, 12:07 PM Reply   
I just read my old post and would add that all the pics had the bow sac full because the 400# bow sac is standard
Old     (petrey10)      Join Date: Apr 2010       04-01-2011, 9:27 AM Reply   
that yellow and black axis is NICE!!!

In a few years I am hoping to pick up a nice used axis or tige... hopefully their prices drop like other models do
Old     (mikeakatex5)      Join Date: Jun 2009       04-01-2011, 4:01 PM Reply   
Hey guys I have my A20 demo tomorrow. Should be really nice weather so I'm pretty pumped. I need some input on the Tige though. I remembered that my demo boat had PCM Excalibur 343 (I think thats what it was called), and mine would have PCM's 5.0L 303 hp offering. What are your guys' thoughts on this engine on the R20. I know very few will have any experience with that exact boat/engine combination but the boat weighs 3,400 lbs and has a pretty small footprint in the water (20ft x 94" beam). I'll usually stick to the 900lb stock ballast with 6 or 7 ppl, but will go nuts with weight every now and then.
Old     (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       04-02-2011, 11:01 AM Reply   
more torque will definitely help you out. We have days where we fill to much and end up having to drain some, but we have an 1100# in the locker, 300# in the bow, and 2 350# we put on the seats plus some freshwater jugs here and there. We only surf, and we have a tige 20V with the black scorpion 6.2L. getting a new prop this summer since all we do is surf.
Old     (mikeakatex5)      Join Date: Jun 2009       04-07-2011, 6:52 PM Reply   
Well to wrap this thread up, I demoed the Axis A20 last weekend (and forgot to take pics). To me the boat just feels like a Malibu, which is a positive for me. On the water the 98" beam became more evident than on the showroom floor. The boat just felt massive compared to the R20. The wakes/waves were comparable to the Tige with similar weight. The Tige may have had a little more size to the wake but was maxed out on out of sight ballast, where as the A20 put a nice wake with the stock 800# ballast and wedge, and still had plug and play ready to be added.
All in all both boats were impressive. My decision was based solely on personal preferences, and I would be proud to own either boat. I went with the Axis A20 because it fit me and the group of people I ride with a little better than the R20 did. I have the potential to be long winded with this post, so I will leave it relatively short. If anyone is looking at these two boats, first and foremost, you're not going to be disappointed no matter what you decide.
Old     (nautiquesonly)      Join Date: Sep 2007       04-07-2011, 7:07 PM Reply   
Awesome Congrats. I am sure you wouldn't have been disappointed either way. The axis are really making a name for themselves.
Old     (cwb4me)      Join Date: Apr 2010       04-08-2011, 3:14 AM Reply   
CONGRATS MIKE. I'm sure you will enjoy your new boat.Like you said you can't go wrong with either.It comes down to which one fits you best.Only you know that.HAPPY BOATING!
Old     (silvermustang35)      Join Date: Jul 2008       04-08-2011, 5:32 AM Reply   
Congrats Mike! We have enjoyed our A22 for sure last season, and I can only see this season getting better. Very good write up and glad you did what you needed to do before biting the bullet - Demo your choices
You're gonna have to post pics of it too!

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