No earmark doesn't have any special insight, the speakers on his site are not even xm9s. They got the cart before the horse. They are in production now and should be available end of April or early may. I saw the first ones exile got in, impressive engineering indeed. Something totally different from anything else out there in so many ways. Two pairs will fit on the illusion tower but you will have to run one set on the rear hoop and one set in the factory location.
Jeff - We haven't posted the XM9's on the website because the product has not yet launched. Earmark jumped the gun a month back. The information he posted is from our dealer catalog. Retailers like Earmark can pre-order you speakers if you want them. As of this date, ~60% of the first production is presold.
Here's the 411 on XM9:
- Design and construction method never seen in tower speakers to this date.
- Differs from XM7 in that its speaker has no basket of any kind.
- Offers increased cone area output.
- New SwitchFire crossover design lets you toggle on the fly.
- Utilizes the patented thumb screw feature.
- Utilizes the same clamp design as the XM7 and SXT'65's.
- Ships with the Socks like XM7.
- Retails for 1,100.00
If you need info on any of the above points, let me know.
As to your question about Illusion tower - I'd probably suggest you look at the SXT65's for that tower because of the mounting location in relation to the driver and swim deck. It's very low as compared to other towers on the market. HLCD's tend to BLAST people when installed in the factory locations. Large diameter HLCD's tend to take up a lot of space and blast people. The SXTs sound 10X better but are optimized more for the surf market.
If you have a decent sub-woofer in the system, I'd consider the XM7 for the space saving considerations. However, if you want to be the guy thats king of the lake, Here's some information mounting onto the XS tower.
- 1 pair XM9 will direct bolt onto either of the factory tower positions.
- 2 pair would either need an adapter to stager them, or mount one pair on the hoop as Nubu suggested.
If you opt to do 2 pair, change your screen name to "Deafpoet", because these things are loud. Seriously! Hope this helps. Cant say I didnt warn ya. hehe!
-Brian
Exile Audio
Last edited by brianinpdx; 04-09-2011 at 4:18 PM.
Reason: .
Brian - Thanks for the info here. I have 2 sets of XM7's with the Harpoon amp (in the stock mounts) and was wondering how to compliment my current set-up. I'm also running a 12W6 with the 1500.1 Exile amp along with the Polk Momo MMC's with the 800.4 amp for interiors... I'm still itching for more.
I've been thinking of upgrading to the12W7 and the 2500.1, and/or changing the interiors for the SX-65's or the XS-650 (wetsounds). Any suggestions from here???
Jeff - ok, I understand where your coming from. I chuckle sometimes when i read these things because you guys become your own worst enemy. If your not careful your 1KW system becomes a 2K then 3K watt system. Audio upgrades can get carried away. For the record you already have a very nice system. But yes, I get it. Your asking whats the next level...
To effectively answer that I need to know about what your goals are for the stereo. My take on that question might be different than yours. Increasingly, most guys want it all. Sound quality / projection, and serious bass performance. If you fall into that category, My favorite higher end configuration is the Hybrid Tower setup where we mix 1pr XM7's with 2pr SXT65's. You get a tremendous punch in the midbass and the whole speaker array is powered off the Harpoon amplifier that your already have.
We did a sound check video recently that observes the near field - far field sound. It's impressive. Especially when you consider its all running off of 1 amp.
As for the rest of your setup:
I wouldnt change anything in your cabin. The polks are fine. Going with the ws or the Exile coaxials are not going to make a dramatic improvement over what you already have.
On the Sub you might consider moving up to a setup that feeds more power into super woofer class product. Our Big12 can be powered by either a 1500.1 or 2500.1. The JL W7 would also slamn well. Coil configurations wont hit a 1 ohm load but it doesnt matter, the 2500.1 you mentioned will still make a ton of power for it at 1.5 ohms.
So, thats the long story. In short, I'd say, save your headroom, goto the Hybrid setup on your tower and step up a level on the sub. You'll be the WOW factor on the water. Liquid Trends has a boat in their shop right now for installation. You should have a listen and compare it to your setup.
-Brian
Exile Audio
Ps: If you would rather go XM9, Here is a sneak peek many have been waiting for. Mounted on a G3 tower Hybrid configuration along side 2 pair SXT's in the stock locations.
If you opt to do 2 pair, change your screen name to "Deafpoet", because these things are loud. Seriously! Hope this helps. Cant say I didnt warn ya. hehe!
I am running the exile 2500.1 to 2 12W7s. This amp is badass. Slams my w7's very hard. This year I am going to swap out 1 of the w7s for a Kicker 15"L7 (dual 4ohm @2ohms). This will get me to the true 1ohm and the 2500rms. Hope the speakers last.
I'm just finally drying out my keyboard after 2 days of drooling...Thanks for the info and suggestions here!!! And yes, I want it all... sound quality, projection, and bass.
I think I'm going to start with the Big12 or W7and see where I go with the 1500.1 and 2500.1 options (cost wise).
I'm liking the hybrid set-up with the 1pr XM7's with 2pr SXT65's... Has anyone experimented with a pair of Xm7, XM9, and SXT65's mixed??? Could I run another Harpoon amp for any of this?
Jeff - If you want it "all", there is no doubt in my mind that you should reconfigure to the Exile the Hybrid setup. Especially if your working with Liquid Trends that can properly setup and tune the boat. You have it right on the spot with XM7+SXT+SXT. Yes guys are now taking it to the next level and adding the XM9 into the hybrid (when it comes out) but that requires another amplifier with different crossover points. On your VTX, I'd stick with the XM7 for space considerations.
Let me know which way you end up going. I'll be down your way for spring ride. Would enjoy seeing your boat.
Just curious, are you saying that 2 XM7s and 2 SXT's would be better than 4 XM7s? I am having the S7HD's put on my tower right now... 4 of them. Should I have gone hybrid?
Ian - Good question, but not so straight forward answer.
It really depends upon your goals for the system. 2 pair XM7 are going to give maximum projection to a wakeboarder at 80ft and sound real good doing so. So the question is, why do all this hybrid stuff? It's a fair question.... As stated above, the upside to an HLCD is going to be maximum projection, but with that comes a crisp "live" sound for those that are in the boat. As you turn up the volume it can be overwhelming. Especially if the tower is a lower design. It makes the speakers mount in a way that it fires through the occupants. The SXT speakers are voiced very differently in that they do not use a horn like the XM speakers do. Instead they feature a 1" titanium high power handling tweeter thats coincidently mounted in the grill. This gives a wider dispersion characteristic, and since the midbass drivers are right behind the tweeters they offer improved midbass response.
For guys that want it all.... and have the budget and space to do so, we blend the two technologies together and configure the tower with 1 pair XM speakers (typically in the highest position), and 2 pair SXT's. The combination acoustically combines very well. Simply stated the tweeters mask the horns up in the close range. But afar its a different story because the horns will load into the air out past the boat at 20ft and beyond.
I want to be a good contributor here and say this setup is not for everyone. I don't want to over simplify several key install and tuning details. In my opinion this is a setup for guys that want top notch sound up close and at distance and are willing to have it installed correctly. It works very well with the Exile gear. I wont claim a thing for other brands. I simply do not know. All of the recent videos and pics I've seen of the Exile hybrid tower setup tells me the installers really know what they are doing behind the scenes. These results are impressive when properly executed.
So the question you asked me really comes back to you? Whats your goal for the stereo? wakeboarding? surfing? Party coving? Samson can very easily convert you to a hybrid setup by dropping 1 pair 7's and adding 2 pair of SMT's in its place. It's all powered by the Harpoon amplifier.
Well, I think you are describing what I want it for, wake, surf, party cove. I have the Harpoon amp for the 2 pairs of XM7's... you are saying that I can use that same amp to power 4 SXT's and 2 XM7's? Is that correct?
also, are the enclosures the same on the XM vs SXT's? Ben at Acme Tops and Tunes is making custom LED's for these speakers so I'm curious if he'll have to repattern for the SXTs.
Brian - Liquid Trends put the order in today and I'm going Hybrid! I'm also switching out the W6 for the Big12 (and new box). I'll stick with running the 4 SXTs and 2 XM7s off the Harpoon and possibly add another Harpoon when the time comes.
I'll post pictures next week and see if I can get some in water shots for the Exile crew when I'm out next. Let me know when your in town and you can check out the boat anytime (need a tow?). You can probably help me spend the next thousand dollars... just don't tell my wife how much this obsession costs.
Thanks again for the help and honesty!!!
-- Jeff
So... after the next Harpoon amp and LEDs , where do I go from here...
@ Frosty - Fill? no. We don't sell raw drivers. All our tower speakers will mount directly on to your tower with an adapter puck. The XM9 design is radically different than other speakers on the market. It doesn't have a speaker basket as such to even remove from the enclosure. I dont know the particulars of your boat stereo, but I would look at re-powering what you already have first before changing. Most of the stock MC systems have decent speakers and very little power behind them. If you want HLCD style speakers that spin with quick disconnects then XM9 or XM7 would be a good candidate.
@ Jeff - Nice! I think you just took your stereo up a few notches. Yes we should hook up for sure. I think a lot of guys will be interested in what your feedback is going from HLCD's and into the Exile Hybrid configuration. Your in good hands with Liquid Trends. Johnny's shop right? Cant wait to see the pics! PS: I understand the wife factor....god bless them or we'd all be broke!
@Wake reviews - I'm saying you can use the Harpoon to power 1 pair XM7 and 2 pair SXT65's for a total of 6 speakers on the tower. . The enclosures are the same for both models but you'll need to convert the XM7 grilles over to black to match the SXT's or the SXT's over to chrome to match the XM7's. As for the rings, the grills are similar but different. XM7 is a proaxial and SXT is not. It might be worth having Ben at Acme give me a call and I can walk him through some of the details.
I have new Mastercraft / Gere Marie speaker enclosures that are currently empty.
I understand the Bullet 770's are a drop in for these 7.7" enclosures.
I understand that you don't sell raw drivers, I whichever speakers I chose, I would have to remove and re-install in my current speaker cans. The XM7's are 8" I think, so they would be a bit too big.
I was hoping that the XM9's would work, but it sounds like I would be prevented from doing this for at least two reasons: 1) size (8"?) and 2) speaker design.
Thanks for the recommendation of boning up on the amps, I'm kind of stuck with what I have, 2 free channels (150/each) on an Alpine PDX F6. I figure buy the speakers, and eventually upgrade the amp to drive them, if I'm not happy with it.
thanks,
David
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianinpdx
@ Frosty - Fill? no. We don't sell raw drivers. All our tower speakers will mount directly on to your tower with an adapter puck. The XM9 design is radically different than other speakers on the market. It doesn't have a speaker basket as such to even remove from the enclosure. I dont know the particulars of your boat stereo, but I would look at re-powering what you already have first before changing. Most of the stock MC systems have decent speakers and very little power behind them. If you want HLCD style speakers that spin with quick disconnects then XM9 or XM7 would be a good candidate.
-Brian
Exile Audio
@ Diggs - Let me know when you are headed to Chitown this fall and maybe I can swing up there. Have a bunch of buddies there. Very excited about the Exile/Samson set up this year.. hopefully i'll have some pics of it all completed in 2 weeks or so.
@Brian - Thanks for all the tips, I think I like the idea of the hybrid set up. I have an email into Tija about making an exchange and if I do end up switching, I will have Ben call you up to get some tips on how it should be wired/tuned with the Harpoon.
frosty,
The HollowPoint 770 HLCDs will drop into the MasterCraft 770 pods. You only need to drill and tap a new hole pattern for the mounting screws. However, the new Bullet HollowPoint NEO 770 model has the same six-hole pattern as the JL Audio 770s.
Can you comment on the concept of mixing what is basically a short range car audio style speaker like the SXT with the long range HLCD like the XM7? I think it was touched on a little bit above, but I am not sure I understand it. Traditional wisdom has been that the HLCD's would drown everything else out. The video above is awesome, so obviously it works, but I wonder if it can be explained why.
In every other thread where guys talk about mixing HLCD and non-HLCD, the gurus always state it is a bad idea.
Where have you been the hybrid setups been getting a lot of attention since the guys at exile had the balz to publicly condone the setup. They did what everyone said couldn't and shouldn't work. BTW the sxt isn't a car audio speaker.
Tallgate guy – (get ready for a read—I’ll apologize for that right up front)
Traditionally, the mixing of speaker technology on a tower has been frowned upon because the inherent voicing characteristics of an HLCD horn speaker and a traditional direct radiating tweeter function in very different ways. We could really get into the 411 in these area’s and open it up to a debate as I’m sure a lot of guys would have input. For the sake of this thread, I will speak in terms of the Exile hybrid details.
I don’t know if you frequent the Malibu Crew, but last year we had a local guy “Bawshog” approach us about changing up his 4 pod XM7’s mounted in the factory locations on his Illusion tower. He asked my engineer, “how can I setup my tower up to not loose tons of space and still have great / wake sounds and not eat up so much space with huge diameter drivers…” It set in motion several dialogs about the phase relationships of the near field and far field drivers and how the throttle box circuit on the harpoon amplifier would positively or negatively affect the performance.
I’ll spell it out in simple terms here’s what happening behind the scenes:
Speaker placement plays a key role (vertical is more beneficial)
Doubling up on the SXT’s is a must.
Orientation of the HLCD within the placement plays a key role
Engaging throttle box in the integrates potential phasing issues
Similar power handling is important or requires more amplifiers
Running the harpoon (tower amp) at 1.3 ohm load is requires special cooling.
Having a subwoofer that can keep up with the tower is critical
Explaining all those points:
Acoustically speaking, our engineer ideally wanted to see a vertical assembly of drivers to create a line array. And then supplement it with a black box of his own with built in time delay. Some of this experimenting produced some fantastic results but this never panned out because we cannot control the mounting locations precisely enough in the installation (across many brands of towers). What we found was that in the case of the SXT surf speakers, they inherently have very good midbass response because of the coincidently mounted tweeter. When used on a 1 on 1 ration to the XM7 it produced marginal results. When used in a 2 on 1 ratio, the overall musicality of the tower system was dramatic. Whats really happening behind the scenes is that the midbass drivers couple acoustically very well. This gives a very punchy tonal balance. The crossover points on the SXT’s midbass drivers are similar to that of the XM7’s but in reality they end up reinforcing the XM7 because it a proaxial design (meaning has a hole in the middle of the midbase so the horn fires threw it). Without blasting off the deep end of geek speak, the horn driver part of the XM7 loads up very aggressively in the upper midrange region.
The end result is that the Mid bass sums well and doesn’t cancel itself out (which can happen on multiple pod setups). The SXT1” titanium dome tweeters are masking the HLCd horn up close with their wide dispersion characteristics. From Afar, the HLCD wants to load into the air at a distance that’s beyond the projection force of the SXT’s tweeters. To accomplish this best, we want the XM7’s to be up in the highest mounting position. Because all the speakers are mounted with the quick disconnect system, its very easy to swap the XM7’s into all three positions for a listening audition. Even moving them down one level creates dramtic changes (in bad ways). The sound field begins to rapidly collapse and lower itself out of proportionally to the physical changes happening. Also the lower the XM7 is mounted the more the SXT’s erode the projection abilities of the HLCD.
Here’s a photo of Baws VTX that started all this hybrid talk. Whats funny about his story is that he’s been on these boards forever. He predicted that people would be critical of the mixing of technology. He was right. But the bottom line for him last year was that every person that saw his boat wanted a listen. And 1 by 1 they would agree that its one of the best setups they’ve listened too. A year later, The Exile hybrid tower setups are numerous and have become the most asked about questions we field from retailers and consumers alike.
Here’s Baws boat. He was Exile Hybrid #1
The next Evolution -
With the release of the XM9 approaching many guys have asked about putting that into the Hybrid setup and how it would change things. From an acoustical point of view, it utilizes the same horn as the XM7 and nothing changes. It provides more midbass but with that comes the need to power the XM9 independently from the SXT’s. and creates a lot of additional expense and also physically starts to get bigger. I know of 5 boats that are waiting for this speaker to drop and will complete their Exile Hybrid setup in this configuration. It does take things to the next level, but has trade offs as mentioned above.
Here’s the XM9 dressed in white. It’s a pre production model mounted on a G3 tower.
I want to make very clear that putting together a hybrid setup on any given tower with random gear, is NOT a slam dunk. Far from it. The hybrid setup works well with Exile gear in the configurations I’ve talked about above. Within our product line, these setups are as elite as it gets. Ultimately, your own ears will be the final judge.
Talltigeguy,
Here is why it works.
Let's say that you have two pair of 6.5" HLCDs. Horns are more efficient out of the gate and simply project farther because they are louder to begin with. The energy created by a direct radiating conventional tweeter is simply much less, dissipates quickly and can't reach wake range without serious loss. So the two pair of HLCDs are super loud and great for wake projection. But for sound quality they are not linear. Why? Small surface area of the midbass driver that can't keep pace with the more dominant horn. Small pod displacement that doesn't allow much midbass extention. Proaxial horn interrupts the midbass cone resulting in even less surface area and the pod is no longer airtight due to the fine air gap around the voice coil and porous internal spider resulting in less midbass extension. All issues generally common to all 6.5" Proaxials regardless of brand...some better some worse. The net result is the boat owner may be very happy with long range projection but is deeply disappointed with more near field sound quality. So how do you fix it?
While the surf speaker doesn't possess the top end power to project (as far), it does provide a few distinct advantages for near field sound quality. It has an uninterrupted and continuous midbass cone with more surface area and a sealed pod. Much better midbass performance/output. A more linear speaker in general (smoother, less peaky octave to octave balance). None of the signature characteristics of a Proaxial (coaxial type) horn. It really sounds good, especially in the context of a smaller speaker.
So when you mix two pair of surf speakers with one pair of HLCDs you get the dominant qualities of the surf speakers (warmer texture and better midbass) with the single pair of HLCD horns that are completely dominant at the top end and provide the reach and projection at distance where the surf speakers begin to fall off. The strength of one compliments the weakness of the other. It couldn't be more simple. There's no real "Hybrid" technology here to speak of other than the above explanation. Speaker placement is simply a matter of placing the HLCD in the highest position to better shield the dominant horn from the near field listening positions and give it the best position to project without obstruction...when such positioning is available.
Does everyone need to do it. No. A pair of Wetsounds Pro485s are larger, have extented midbass, tons of surface area, sealed pods, separate horns (non-Proaxial that sound better) and is a linear speaker to begin with that will project long range with ease. Or you can use an EQ to modify big speakers for near field, surf or wake usage. But big speakers appear different on a tower and may not fit all towers. The point is that you can get similar results from fewer, larger tower speakers if a manufacturer gives you that same option. And, when it comes to sheer output, identical speakers sum more efficiently than a mix and larger speakers are inherently louder with typically more midbass and warmth.
There are some things that you have to be a little cautious of when mixing surf and HLCD speakers.
A 1-inch voice coil of a 1-inch dome tweeter will not keep pace with the thermal power handling of a 2-inch voice coil of an HLCD compression driver. Think circumference rather than diameter when comparing thermal dissipation. You would never combine a woofer having a 1.5-inch VC with a woofer having a 3-inch VC on the same amplifier...would you? Same issue. So if a surf speaker is forced to compete with an HLCD in amplitude you are going to be smoking some tweeters. However, the two (surf speakers) to one (HLCD speaker) ratio of the same size really minimizes or eliminates this risk. But a one to one ratio or the inverse ratio should definitely be avoided.
Up in the Northwest you may be able to run a Class AB amplifier down to 1.33 ohms with a fan. But regardless of the fan, the amplifier will run less efficiently and run hotter at its core. Here in Texas, in consideration of the July/August heat, we will be splitting this up into separate channels when running this hybrid set-up.
There is no reason why you can't accomplish the same hybrid with two pair of Wetsounds surf speakers and one pair of Pro60 HLCDs. Same thing with the HollowPoint 770 coaxial/proaxial mix. There is nothing proprietary about this. Basically, the sum of the parts will compare in the same way that the individual components will compare. If you like the attributes of a particular speaker brand over another, then the princilpes and cautionary notes are the same.
In the case of the Exile hybrid as described, I really like the way it sounds and have zero reservations for those who want to do it...as long as you follow the few restrictions pointed out above. If mixing two 6.5" surf speakers with one 8" HLCD then I'm going to have to strongly recommend that the 8" HLCDs have their own dedicated channels. As dissimilar as the power handling and output will be, this definite deserves separate channels. I would also like to see the dominant 8" HLCD have its own level control so I could adjust its contribution for different usages, whether at rest, surf or wake.
Again the guys at exile were the only ones with the balz to come on here and say it sounds good. In fact David I can remember several threads in the not so distant past where you were dead set against any hybrid type setup and tried to scare people away from doing it. You must have actually heard the exile hybrid setup for yourself and are now on here saying it can be done with any speaker, my how things change.
Last edited by 05mobiuslsv; 04-16-2011 at 8:54 AM.
The content of this post is almost identical to the post I made the last time this came up...The one where I clearly said " make sure its a two to one ratio" and Brian came in behind me and fully agreed. My reasons when not to do a hybrid have also been re-addressed here.
But we've been doing six speakers on a tower long before the existance of Exile, just check our gallery. And people have been mixing Wetsounds surf and HLCD speakers long before the existance of Exile, just check the Wetsounds gallery for a Malibu.
And, lets get real. Since when have six good speakers of any mix on a tower with 1000 watts of power not sounded really impressive? And I've always liked the sound quality and value of the Exile surf speaker. What exactly is the unique or revolutionary about this. Four 8-inch HLCDs are louder with the same. Other pure HLCD options give you tremendous output with a smooth response.
"balz"? You mean a reaction to 6.5-inch HLCDs having no midbass and not living up to the hype.
NuBu, Look the question was ask of me and I gave a real honest and knowledgable answer. Your selection is not being threatened so you don't have to be contentious every time an Exile discussion doesn't go exactly your way. Why don't you jump in here and give us your version of why you like the hybrid set-up in an objective and technical manner rather than the typical subjective and hyped terms.
I'm tired of reading the usual fabricated technical mumbo jumbo. I'd like to hear it from a real expert like yourself. People know that I know what I'm talking about and that I really understand acoutics and electronics without having to make stuff up. So give it a shot. I'm sure we'd all love to hear it.
Common Dave hanging 6 polks off the tower isn't the same neither is an mb8 with a pair of pro80's that's a different setup in itself. Not even close. You are the king of technical mumbo jumbo bs so there is no way I would ever try to steal that crown. Don't get pissed because I pointed out your course correction when you gave others a hard time in the past for telling people they sound good. I'm not in the audio biz Dave nor would I want to be. You can try to question my intelligence if it makes you feel better.
If someone asked me why I like the way they sound I would say something very simple and not try to dazzle them wirh bs. How's this. The setup has the sound quality characteristics of the surf setup with some of the projection characteristics of the hlcd. It takes two sets of the surf speakers to make the setup sound right when mixed with the xm7. Unlike 90% of your posts I'm sure that people can actually understand that statement.
The nice thing is David I checked the manifest and there is room on the bandwagon for you.
I suddenly remember that I saw in my town an MC with 4 JL tower speakers and then some PRO 80's hanging out on the sides. Maybe he was on to something after all...but I will say it looked stupid.
Thanks for the input David and Brian. I suspected I would get a long answer, and it really helps. Nubu, the short answer is very understandable as well.
Any comments on the 'THrottle box'? Brian seemed to think it was an important part of that setup. In simple terms, is it something that shifts the output more to the HLCD's on one end and to the surf speakers on the other?
Talltigeguy,
The Throttle Box was really intended to fit the XM7 HLCD contour so its impact is somewhat diminished in the context of the combined hybrid set-up. Also, if you are using the hybrid mix to get the particular balance that you want then you have less need for it. Although its effectiveness is reduced in the hybrid (because the surf speakers have a different contour), it will still make a marginal audible difference and it certainly can't hurt anything as you can always defeat it. Keep in mind that the Throttle Box can't treat different speakers individually when all three pair are driven by a single two-channel amplifier. I would probably toy with the tweeter attenuation control in the passive crossover of the XM7 to get the high frequency contribution I was looking for. Certainly an equalizer is a great instrument in fine tuning the spectrum tilt that you prefer or making subtle changes between 'at rest', 'surf' or 'wake' conditions.
I might be slightly out of place here, but my comments should be relevant, and concise without a lot of tech mumbo jumbo
If you are considering 6 cans on the tower for up-close and distance listening from the get-go, why not go with a system that was designed from the ground up to work that way in the first place?
Horns don't have to sound bad up close. We see them used for home speakers, (Klipsch, as well as super high-end exotics) and in recording studios, (JBL Pro, more high-end exotics) so witha horn that is done right from the beginning, there is no need to supplement them with a direct-radiating dome....
A set of Kicker KM6500.2's and a set of KM6500's feature sealed midrange cones for good midbass presence, and an audiophile TRACTRIX horn design that is fully and mathematicallly defined. There are no straignt tube sections in the horn flare to cause resonant peaks, and the KM6500.2 horn has a constantly changing flare and flare rate for good projection at a distance, with a fully-defined air terminus for musical performance in the nearfield..
The Kicker "6-pack" Kicker system, (4 mids, 2 horns) is good for a rated power handling of 300 watts RMS per side, but the hot tichet is to use a pair of the new Kicker IX5000.4 Class D am\ps for 1,000 watts of tower speaker power, (500 a side) if you want to be "that guy"
Thought I would just throw it out for thought, since we are talking wakeboarding, surfing , party cove, and HLCD...
I was a bit hesitant in upgrading to the hybrid setup without hearing it first, but Liquid Trends (Johnny/Danny) upgraded my VTX today. We also did the Big12 and a ported box ... I must say this system absolutely ROCKS!!! Almost the same setup as Vince:
Tower:
2 Pairs SXT65
1 Pair XM7
Cabin:
2 Pair Momo MMC
1 Big 12 Sub woofer w/ported box
The 2 pair of XM-7s were great at first, but blasted the crew sitting inside the boat. The tone of 4 XM-7s is also very horny (and not the 2 Live Crew version) which makes it tough to really feel the punch of the midbass. I guess I know how a dog feels when a whistle goes off (same syndrome with the 4 XM-7s mounted in the stock locations). With the 4 SXTs and 2 XM-7s (mounted on the hoop and angled up a few degrees), the mid-bass from the SXTs and projection of one pair of XM-7s is an acoustical and harmonic dream.
Aside from the next Harpoon amp running the XM-7s, a few LEDs, amp rack and a few more batteries... this set-up is golden. I would highly recommend this set-up to anyone!!!!!!!!!
So... how are folks integrating the XM9s into this hybrid mix (4 SXTs, 2 XM7s, and 2 XM9s)? Would a Harpoon power an XM7 and XM9 pair while the other powers the SXTs?
You now have first hand knowledge of what all the doubters don't understand. I'd be a liar if I didn't say I knew you'd love it...But hey, I know it sounds amazing. It really is an elite setup and gives fantastic performance for all activities. Your ears are the ultimate judge. Glad you also upgraded your sub situation as well. The Big12 will pound the crap outta you. I'm sure Liquid Trends did a nice install. Danny does very good work over there.
Send me some pics and I'll have my guy put them on our site. Lots of people ask about the Hybrid setup.
You asked about how XM9 plays into the setup. If you chose that route I would suggest you add another amplifier into the mix (Xi800.4) and run it dual mono mode (i.e. big 2 ch amp). This would give you the ability to tun it down lower and facilitate the extra midbass the XM9 can reproduce. since you have a Big12, there is zero need to put an XM9 into action on your boat.
It was a pleasure to work on Jeff's boat, not many customers know what they want nor do they understand the differences in hybrid vs standard setups. Jeff trusted us and the guys at Exile, although he isn't much for showing emotion, Jeff looked very pleased as he kept walking around his boat trying to find an angle that the sound was not perfect. I must say we have installed many un-orthodox configurations and the Exile Hybrid is about the best sounding and simplest to install and tune. The mid bass in the SXT65s can not be compared to any other speaker of the same cone area, they rock hands down.
I spent sometime listening to the tunes from various locations in the boat, and by the time we were done tuning Jeff's boat I had already grabbed my phone a few times to call Brian and have him send me a couple more pairs of SXTs for my boat.
I am now a die hard hybrid advocate. We have done hybrids in the past, but like I said, none as simple to install and tune as the Exile setup. If your budget can accommodate the Hybrid, just do it, you will be more then happy with the results.
NuBu - Is David with Earmark allowed to comment on the Hybrid setup as well. I know that since he did not originally endorse it right off the bat - but I think he is a fan. If it is all right with - maybe we could ask?
David with Earmark - What are your overall impressions with the Exile Hybrid setup?
Murphy,
I already commented above specifically on the Exile hybrid set-up and stated: "I really like the way it sounds". Now, you can't interpret that any other way but I like it.
I've already gone into detail explaining the 'why' and the 'how to' so that those who wish to really understand it or want a little substantiation can have it.
Early on in the hybrid discussions and before Exile even entered the picture, someone ask about adding a single pair of surf speakers to two pair of HLCD speakers and all running off a single two channel amplifier in order to moderate the HLCD contribution. Even my coworkers have ask about it. I'll maintain that's a bad idea in that particular ratio.
Early on and before Exile entered the picture there were examples of random mixes of surf and HLCD speakers in different sizes from 6.5" to 8". For the investment those boat owners made they could have used far less product to get much more output. Dissimilar speakers do not sum effectively. All the reviews in the world won't change what the commercial sound industry has known for decades. A Frankenstein collection without a plan is a bad idea.
Not Brian from Exile, Tim from Wetsounds or Phil from Kicker will dispute any of the above statements and are all in agreement I'm sure. So there is nothing to argue about unless someone just likes to argue. And don't take these issues or comments out of context when talking about one specific Exile hybrid set-up.
Back to the Exile hybrid. These are all the same size of speaker running off a single two channel amplifier. You have no ability to gain the speakers independently in this scenerio. You can only select position and alter the XM7 horn a bit. You gain the amplifier just like any other tower multi-speaker set-up. We know we want to give the XM7s the high position or split them apart in a horizontal array because we are intentionally wanting to moderate their impact on the in-boat occupants and keep them from beaming. It couldn't be more simple whether you've done one or a thousand. Control of phasing issues is an illusion since distance relates differently to different frequencies/wavelengths.
So much for the 'Hybrid' technology. It really is fundamentally simple.
The Exile surf speaker has great midbass for a 6.5" tower speaker. And its smooth, not flat, but makes no objectionable or abrupt changes in its response. I really like it and find it enjoyable to listen to as a stand alone speaker. A definite favorite of mine in their price and size category. And its the core of this hybrid package.The XM7 has the hottest treble section of any 6.5" HLCD I have heard to date. Not necessarily in the vocal fundamental range but in the upper harmonics and percussion range. Because of this a single pair of XM7 horns will stand out above the mix and give you that extra amplitude on the top end to project the distance. Its a good balance in this case. Just be careful that you don't take a good thing and apply it universally in other situations for all the reasons I have previously stated.
Murphy, so I'm pretty sure that makes me an advocate too.
Brian - Not sure if I will make it to Spring Ride, but I've got it marked on my calendar. I'll have to get some better pics (on the water), but here are a few...
Props out to Johnny, Danny, and Tim @ Liquid Trends in San Jose for the install and attention to detail. I'll be going back when my bank account recovers to do another Harpoon amp and some LED bling.
@ Murph; I thought David made it pretty clear a few posts up what he thought about the Exile Hybrid approach. Lets not beat the poor guy to death.
@ Nubu; It was good to see you, Bakes Marine and Lil John down our way yesterday. When Chris heard your tower sound his jaw dropped, I think you re-energized his audio upgrade process as he has been working on his Exile redesign on his Tige for weeks now. He was blown away with how your boat sounds. You did a flawless install man!
@ David, you are hereby instructed to only sell, install and endorse 6 pod setups that mix design approaches...hehe
Guys, the term Hybrid as it applies to the Exile setup was born late one night during a tune session. Does it mean something secret or elite? No, not at all. Its just a term that designates a specific configuration. These terms are all around us in the speaker world. Does the word "spider" mean you have them crawling around the basket? Does the word yoke, mean you cooked an egg in the speaker? Does the word earmark mean you get marks on your ears when you go there? (ok, I couldn't resist).
There are some fundamentals at play behind the scenes and we've done some great debating. I will stress (again), that I like to see horizontal tower setups mounted in a D'appolito layout which puts the XM7's in between 2 SXT's. And on vertical alignments, put the XM7 up high as possible. I'm sure many brands will endorse ways to mix and match just as the auto industry is doing with their own Hybrid vehicles.
I do want to bring everyone back to reality though... I spoke to a couple of people over the last few days that had "Hybrid" questions.... If your happy with your tower setup, you dont need to throw more time money and speakers up there. I know some of you guys are your own worst enemy when it comes to this stuff, but ask yourself what your expectation is and then build from there.
We got SUN in the NW today!!!! Anyone on th water?
Brian - I thought he made it pretty clear too. Maybe all negative comments about not endorsing it from the start will be put to rest.
To make it really, really clear....you have a dealer that is endorsing you hybrid setup and other products and trying to sell them? Why would you continue to let your apostles come online and continually post that he did not endorse it from it's inception? I would think that a smart business man would instruct his apostles to let that go and carry on with the excitement of a large national dealer selling and endorsing your product.
Murphy - Jeff will not be the first dual Harpoon Hybrid, we are setting up one of our 23 LSVs with a dual amp hybrid as I type. I'm very excited to hear what that set up sounds like with some serious power behind it. We also have some cool plexi work that I'll post once the install is complete.
Can't wait to hear the hybrid with 2K watts behind it.
Brian (PDX) - did you ever sync up with Johnny @ Liquid Trends about next steps? I'm going to add the other Harpoon when the shop gets back from Spring Ride. I hope spring ride was awesome and no "issues".
Had a talk with Johnny at LT and he said he's going to be hooking up with you in a week or so to continue your upgrade path on the amps and such. I didnt make it down to spring ride (@$%@) because my wife basically said I'm divorced If I missed mothers day.... Seing as I got about 20 txt msgs from guys down there with girls on an "Exile" stripppa pole, I think I made the right choice?
Sounds like you made the wrong choice to me..... I am starting to question my relationship with Exile. Maybe I will be switching to another high end electronics provider next year.
Please forward the said material and maybe that will be redemption......
Brian - I'm with Tyler!!! Without photograhic evidence I'm postive this will not stand in a court of law.... Therefore I can not confirm nor deny these statements. TXT messages are overrated, I need MMS or AVI to confirm these allegations.
BTW - I'm taking the boat out this Saturday (pending this screwy weather), so I'll have some in water shots for you. Can you PM me your email?
Brian, It wasn't worth the trip down. All you missed was a little CIE family get together that had a little wakeboarding and alot of good old California FUN. LT had a hybrid, 3 pair surf , and 3 pair XM7set up next to each other providing the beats for the dock party (had two boats linked together at a time). I personally really liked the hybrid setup on the black MB (my opinion may be biased though). Safe to say that there were so many people hanging in this area of the dock at times, they were in water up to their knees dancing and grinding and dancing and grinding....... Thought I was going to have to break out the Tsunami pump to keep Jonny's boat from going down.
Best Spring Ride I have been to yet. Wish you could have made it down. I tagged you in a couple of photos on FB.
Vince - Yes, in all honesty, I really would have enjoyed some fun over the weekend. I heard Johnny had so many people on his BU that it was at the rails literally. Crazy time. I'll be down there in the next few weeks. I'd love to see your MB. I heard it was the head turner at the event! -Brian
the "Exile / Liquid Trends" pole in action, proof is in the pic. These pics were taken minutes before the flood of people swarmed the end of the dock area and the real party got started..
What in the heck is up with that chick in the pink bikini's back. She looks like a tanned up guidette above the back strap and like a ginger from the strap down.
I saw the post about the NW weather and thought...damn thats the same sh!@ I'm dealing with! Where are you guys wakeboarding and partying at around here? By the looks of it that's my kind of crowd! ...I think I even recognize a couple people in those party pics LOL
In the picture wth the girl in the pink polk a dot bikini on the pole, does anyone notice to 2 chicks about to make out sitting down behind her??????????? Johnny where were you on that one buddy! or Callen!
Linear Mode
