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Old     (newwhit)      Join Date: Mar 2007       10-08-2014, 10:38 AM Reply   
do you think the advent and discovery of delayed convergence and all sorts of DIY "Ghetto Gates" make ANY boat a better surf boat?

For example is the following statement true or false?
a commonly difficult to surf boat model such as __________ becomes a better surf boat with a surf system, OEM or otherwise.

I only ask because I am headed back into boat owner territory and I will probably be buying used. I just thought that this would lead to some discussion, especially since some boats are known as surfers, while others are not, even to one of little knowledge, such as myself.
Old     (stepintoliquid)      Join Date: Sep 2005       10-08-2014, 10:43 AM Reply   
That's a great question. I would love to see how a previous gen X-Star does with some type of gate system.
Old     (newwhit)      Join Date: Mar 2007       10-08-2014, 10:57 AM Reply   
^^^^^

That is one of the boats I had thought about...
Old     (newwhit)      Join Date: Mar 2007       10-08-2014, 2:21 PM Reply   
This thread was not onlymeant for specific model comparison, but also for thoughts and sharing what others have seen and experienced.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       10-08-2014, 3:24 PM Reply   
I think it would think it is a big advantage for low profile boats where you can run limited ballast, you can load the boat evenly then use the gate to delay the convergence
Old     (timmyb)      Join Date: Apr 2007       10-08-2014, 4:56 PM Reply   
I have a buddy with an '07 X45 and he put a gate on it and while the wave is prettier, he said that it lacks push now compared to not using the gate.
Old     (nailem)      Join Date: Apr 2011       10-09-2014, 5:39 AM Reply   
my brother-in-law made a gate for his 05' Moomba XLV and we tried it out a couple of weeks ago.

normal non-surfgate setup would be 1100lbs in back locker, 400lbs under bench seat, about 200lbs in belly, and about 200lbs non surf side. for a total of 1900lbs. this makes a decent wave but the top is a little soft and washy.
with the ghetto gate we had to run 1100 surf side locker, 400 under surf side bench, 1100 belly and about 800 non surf side for a total of 3400lbs. pocket was longer and harder.
It did make the pocket longer and the top of the wave firmer but overall I would say it was about a 10% improvement over non-surfgate.
Negative was it made it hard to steer when turning to pick up a rider. Also we had to use more weight which equated to a lot more fuel.
at the end of the weekend we through the ghetto gate in the dumpster.
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013 Location: Vancouver WA       10-09-2014, 8:59 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph View Post
I think it would think it is a big advantage for low profile boats where you can run limited ballast, you can load the boat evenly then use the gate to delay the convergence
This applied to my Supra Sunsport direct drive. it wasn't low profile by any stretch, but it was a direct drive and therefore inherently limited.

We were able to get a decent surf wave with bags double stacked as far back as possible in the surfside corner and no bow weight. With a NSS style surf system, we were able to get the same qualify of wave, but with the ability to distribute our weight differently (evenly). this meant that we had a more comfortable setup that was easier to drive and easier to drive and relax in.

So it opens up opportunities.
Old     (phathom)      Join Date: Jun 2013       10-12-2014, 8:47 AM Reply   
I personally have ridden a lot of boats both gated and non gated.
I think the best, even comparison I could make would be of a 2012 VLX listed and a 2014 VLX Gated.
Same hull and everything, roughly the same amount of weight being ran, even though the 2014 did have a little more. The only real difference here was the presence of a gate.

The wake on the non gated VLX was very tall, but also pretty short in length, but had a ton of energy to it.
The wake on the gated VLX was almost as tall, but a lot longer. The shape of it also changed as the wake wrapped around behind you more which also gave you more area of the flats you could play in.
Old     (Brent44)      Join Date: Apr 2013       10-13-2014, 1:48 AM Reply   
I made a ghetto gate this summer... I spent lots of hours on here reading and listening to see how others had completed this project and the result they were seeing. It took me about a day to fab it up as I wasn't all that concerned with looks at the time, if it worked great I would build a finish gate. After completing the gate I had to wait a couple hours for my regular surfing buddy to come over. We first ran it without ballast,, WOW, so we decided to ballast down with around 3000lbs and surf it up... All I can say is the wake was the prettiest thing you've ever seen. It was so clean, so long, and moderately tall. My buddy goes first and after a few runs he gets in the boat and I'm surprised he didn't say all that much. I get in to surf, I now see why he didn't say anything... We lost so much push it was tough to surf anywhere, even directly behind the boat. I took it off and have never used it again. My thoughts are the delaying of the convergence doesn't allow the non-surf side to build up that big stiff wall that gives the surf side wake it's push, but regardless, on my boat (Sanger V230, with a great wave) I lost any type of wave/wake I want to surf.
Old     (newwhit)      Join Date: Mar 2007       10-13-2014, 7:48 PM Reply   
Great input guys. Seems like a YRMV type of situation.

Anyone else want add a boat model that did or did not work? Kind of like a running tally...
Old     (newwhit)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-02-2015, 12:51 PM Reply   
anyone seen the "ghetto gate" work or not work on a 2008-2009 SAN 210?

thanks
Old     (brewkettle)      Join Date: Jan 2009       05-02-2015, 6:08 PM Reply   
friend Craig Campbell has a 06 X30 and just installed a GO SURF ASSIST system that is available at wakemakers. this system works well. water depth needs to be more then 15 ft. deep to work properly.. Im sold on this system, switch on the fly at 3 seconds , Gps safety built in to cut off over 15 mph.
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       05-03-2015, 8:39 AM Reply   
i think you have to shop for a boat that is already easy to set up. there's alway an argument about wakeboard wakes vs surf wakes and ease of setup when purchasing, and its the same for used. If i was buying budget, i would search the best surf wave boat in my price range then all the other needs. almost all wake boats make a great wakeboard wake, but you can really struggle making a surf wave. i don't think the add on getto gate will make the boat any easier to set up, it will still have the same or close to same, limitations n the problem is usually having a hard time buying something you don't like.
Old     (boardjnky4)      Join Date: Dec 2011       05-03-2015, 8:49 AM Reply   
I have a 2013 Axis A20. I built a goofy side ghetto gate, and so far the results have been much better than listed boat. This week I will build the regular side ghetto gate, and I expect that to work very well too.
Old     (dvsone79)      Join Date: Dec 2012       05-03-2015, 9:09 AM Reply   
I think any boat would benefit from a wally-gate. My 205v (1st gen Xstar hull) certainly did. It is mediocre at best for surfing. It has to be listed so heavy to port. Starboard was so bad there was no point in trying. Fake-gate changed that. I need to get more pics but here's a video. Rider is 6'4" 220 for reference. Wally-gate is on port side for starboard side wake. Both rear 750s full, 300 in ski locker and another 750 in the bow. 10mph.

https://youtu.be/UQ25fqL50GI
Old     (newwhit)      Join Date: Mar 2007       05-03-2015, 10:00 AM Reply   
great info! thanks guys!
Old     (zimme)      Join Date: Feb 2013       05-05-2015, 11:50 AM Reply   
Thing with the new boats is that their hulls are also being designed to displace more water, and are also larger, heavier, and carry more ballast. Even without a surf system of any kind, the boats of today that are designed for surfing are going to out perform the hull of an older boat with no surfing in mind during production.

I'd say all boats will benefit and create a surfable wave by using some sort of fabricated surf system, but just slapping one on any old boat will not create the same results. The heavier boats of the past that can hold more ballast, or the boats with a deep V that do better in rough water should yield better results than something like a crossover style boat that has skiing/wakeboarding in mind as its intended purposes.

The last generation X-star has a weird shaped stepped rear hull, but still benefits greatly by a "surf gate" style board. There's lots of pictures of this and evidence on TeamTalk from a couple guys over there that have built their own. I'd say for the most part, surf systems started as a convenience factor to be able to switch side to side quicker to stop spending 20 minutes filling bags on different sides. Once this concept was "perfected" the boats started adding big in floor ballast tanks, and high capacity ballast extras to add more weight and create bigger waves for people with extra weight while still keeping the convenience factor of quick switches.

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