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Old     (gdillyfunk69)      Join Date: Nov 2003       02-12-2008, 2:28 PM Reply   
In this vid, they are carrying down diesel gas tanks (yellow with the word "diesel" on them).

I am not sure if this is Rusty's X-Star, but I thought it was, and I was wondering if his has a diesel?? Whatcha think?
Old     (downfortheride)      Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: SLC, UT 5600'       02-12-2008, 2:30 PM Reply   
Yep, looks yellow???
Old     (gdillyfunk69)      Join Date: Nov 2003       02-12-2008, 2:38 PM Reply   
I AM AN IDIOT...

http://www.wakeboardingmag.com/article.jsp?ID=21336242
Old     (gdillyfunk69)      Join Date: Nov 2003       02-12-2008, 2:38 PM Reply   
you will see them in the first 5 seconds....
Old     (trickyboarder08)      Join Date: Jul 2005       02-12-2008, 2:43 PM Reply   
it could still be gas though.
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-12-2008, 2:48 PM Reply   
he did say put a bunch of "gas" in the boat, so I'm guessing they were just using the wrong cans.
Old     (supradoug)      Join Date: Dec 2001       02-12-2008, 2:49 PM Reply   
i'm gonna say gas. my diesel cans are way darker than that.
Old     (wakeworld)      Join Date: Jan 1997       02-12-2008, 2:51 PM Reply   
I think that's Andrew Adkison's boat because it looks like him and Corey's backyard. However, I can't explain the diesel cans. I'm assuming they just use those can for gasoline.
Old     (gdillyfunk69)      Join Date: Nov 2003       02-12-2008, 2:53 PM Reply   
I have a diesel X-Star, and I didn't know of any pros who have one.... thats why I was wondering.....

Doug: those are the same cans I use for my gas... you can buy those tanks at walmart.
Old     (mowakeboarding)      Join Date: Jan 2008       02-12-2008, 2:53 PM Reply   
Mastercrafts now comes with a diesel engine upgrade option
Old     (lovin_the_wake)      Join Date: Jul 2007       02-12-2008, 3:02 PM Reply   
As far as I know all Yellow fuel tanks say Diesel on them but that doesn't mean they have diesel in them but . . . . . You never know
Old     (downfortheride)      Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: SLC, UT 5600'       02-12-2008, 3:09 PM Reply   
Chris ~~ I used to use blue cans, not to show what kind of gas I was carrying but everybody knew who's cans they were.
Old     (driving)      Join Date: Jan 2003       02-12-2008, 3:15 PM Reply   
It's just the cans.
Old     (cwb_fooguitarlz)      Join Date: Nov 2006       02-12-2008, 3:22 PM Reply   
settled. If anyone knows, it's Travis.
Old     (gdillyfunk69)      Join Date: Nov 2003       02-12-2008, 3:30 PM Reply   
JUST GOT THIS EMAIL FROM ANDREW HIMSELF!!!!!

" My xstar is gas. The reason for the yellow/diesel tanks is because my gas cans kept growing legs so I just went ahead and made them a little more reconizable. You know guys would show up with one gas can and leave with two. Luckily i don't have anything here that runs off of diesel so no need to worry about a mix up."


Nice call Josh....
Old     (solo)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-12-2008, 3:56 PM Reply   
I bought a few of those for Harfs boat when I was there. I bet Rusty snagged them! Just gas...
Old     (ttrigo)      Join Date: Dec 2004       02-12-2008, 3:58 PM Reply   
who pays for the pro's gas? I have always wondered this. can they write it off as a business expense or something?
sorry to get a little off topic.
Old     (solo)      Join Date: Oct 2001       02-12-2008, 4:04 PM Reply   
It depends. When doing feature stories we often get the boat sponsors to pay for fuel. Each rider, for the most part, has their own company and deducts fuel as a business expense. Sometimes the Mag covers it. I'm personally claiming around $4000 in fuel expense for last season. That doesn't include what MasterCraft and Nautique kicked out last year.
Old     (ttrigo)      Join Date: Dec 2004       02-12-2008, 4:16 PM Reply   
I was thinking more along the lines of everyday riding. thanks for the response Hahn. and congrats on your cover and promotion! well deserved.
Old     (2007_x2)      Join Date: May 2007       02-12-2008, 4:44 PM Reply   
heres a pic of a twin diesel X-80

Upload
Old     (mike_schwenne)      Join Date: Nov 2002       02-12-2008, 5:36 PM Reply   
has anyone done any gas comparisons between the diesel and regular 87 fuel...I've been wondering for years.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-12-2008, 5:45 PM Reply   
i think chris posted the numbers before, the guy with the diesel xstar
Old     (gdillyfunk69)      Join Date: Nov 2003       02-12-2008, 6:11 PM Reply   
Here is myne..... I am getting anywhere from 3-5 gallons per hour (GPH) with the PRO TOUR BALLAST UPGRADE PLUS STOCK BALLAST. Compare to 12-15 GPH with a Gas X-star with the same weight!!

Also, the low end tourque is incredible!! It gets the boat with ease!
Old     (gdillyfunk69)      Join Date: Nov 2003       02-12-2008, 6:12 PM Reply   
.Upload
Old     (supradoug)      Join Date: Dec 2001       02-12-2008, 6:16 PM Reply   
gdilly, i have the same cans also from wally world. I said gas because mine are filled with diesel and it makes it alot darker. From the video it looked real clear...
Old     (malibuboarder75)      Join Date: Jan 2004       02-12-2008, 6:16 PM Reply   
How much was the engine, if you dont mind me asking?
Old     (mike_schwenne)      Join Date: Nov 2002       02-13-2008, 10:46 AM Reply   
Chris,
Just to make sure I'm reading this correctly. You're burning more fuel using deisel? What engine did the gas X-star have in it?
Was there the same amount of stop and go activety?
If theres another post covering all this...does anyone have the link.
I would have thought it would have been the other way around, considering the type of usage we're putting the boats through.
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-13-2008, 10:57 AM Reply   
he is using less, he is using 3-5 gallons of diesel every hour of use compared to the 12-15 he used with a gas engine.

about 3x less fuel
Old     (ralph)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-13-2008, 10:58 AM Reply   
I don't think so Mike, 3-5 GPH with Diesel, 12-15 GPH with gas.
Old     (bird_dog0347)      Join Date: Feb 2006       02-13-2008, 11:02 AM Reply   
Not miles per gallon (then the gas would be better) but Gallons per hour... Less is better. You can see he is using about 30% of what a gas engine would use.
Old     (gnarkill)      Join Date: Feb 2004       02-13-2008, 11:08 AM Reply   
I wonder if anyone is using Bio Diesel in their boats yet?

(Message edited by Gnarkill on February 13, 2008)
Old     (fletch_tx)      Join Date: Aug 2003       02-13-2008, 11:09 AM Reply   
Do the diesel boats put off smelly diesel fumes too? How do they sound....like an F250? just wonderin!
Old     (gdillyfunk69)      Join Date: Nov 2003       02-13-2008, 11:12 AM Reply   
Actually, it sounds like a tractor... lol

On the fumes.... Diesels do not pump out carbon monoxide like a gas engine... so you can breathe it in while wakesurfing and you won't die!!!

The fumes are not smelly at all... no worse than a regular engine
Old     (gdillyfunk69)      Join Date: Nov 2003       02-13-2008, 11:16 AM Reply   
MIKE: like mentioned, my numbers were in GPH.... that is gallons of fuel used PER hour..... that means the smaller the number, the better fuel effinciency your getting.

Those number are compared to a big block 8.1 liter X-Star engine.
Old     (ldr)      Join Date: Nov 2002       02-13-2008, 11:34 AM Reply   
Chris,

I know you've talked about it before, but what was the cost of doing the diesel conversion. Did you order your boat with a gas engine and if so what happened to it?
Old     (darinmg)      Join Date: Jul 2006       02-13-2008, 11:46 AM Reply   
Those numbers don't sound right to me. Are people really burning 12-13 gallons per hour with their 8.1 gas engines? That would mean I am limited to only 3 hours of run time with full ballast in my MB (40 gallons). I get around 8 hours of run time with a full tank. That is 5GPH. I don't believe that the 8.1 engine burns 2.5 times the amount fuel that I burn.
Old     (tentcitygoon)      Join Date: Mar 2006       02-13-2008, 12:22 PM Reply   
Any one thinking of converting to Bio Diesel? French fry smell while you ride! Umm!
Old     (clearlakescott)      Join Date: Apr 2007       02-13-2008, 12:32 PM Reply   
Darin.. Those numbers are right for sure. We get about 12 gph. 2700lbs and four people. We had the prop changed and the computer adjusted and this is as good as it gets. Boats use more fuel when in motion. Maybe you guys fall alot Just Kidding
Old     (guido)      Join Date: Jul 2002       02-13-2008, 12:55 PM Reply   
Darin... It definitely isn't too far off. I know we couldn't go 8 hours riding with our big block X-star and it had a 55 gallon tank. I would have guessed we were closer to 8 gph, though.... but it would have purely been a guess.
Old     (bmartin)      Join Date: Jan 2007       02-13-2008, 1:08 PM Reply   
Wow 12 gals / hour!!! Thats almost a quart / minute. If the diesel was a $5K upgrade the break even point would be right around 200 hours which would be worth for just about everyone except the person who trades their boat every year.
Old     (ncsuuh)      Join Date: Jan 2007       02-13-2008, 1:19 PM Reply   
Chris I would also like to know the estimated cost for the conversion. Did you previously have the big-block set-up? Did you keep the MC tranny or have to upgrade? Where did you get the conversion done?
Old    K.B.C.            02-13-2008, 1:40 PM Reply   
12 gph doesn't sound right to me, 8 sounds a bit more plausible. There is quite a large difference between 8 and 12 when it comes to ONE hour of usage.
Old     (stephan)      Join Date: Nov 2002       02-13-2008, 2:50 PM Reply   
The diesel fascinates me as well, but did anyone notice in that video the HS BS 7 followed by the SWITCH HS BS 7? Thats pretty burly.
Old     (shagman)      Join Date: Sep 2004       02-13-2008, 7:18 PM Reply   
They just mirrored the video.
Old     (boomshot)      Join Date: Jan 2008       02-13-2008, 7:31 PM Reply   
That video is absolutely unreal. Wow. However I couldn't care less about the tanks and whether or not the boat is diesel powered
Old     (johnm_ttu)      Join Date: Jul 2005       02-13-2008, 8:30 PM Reply   
$12 per hour diesel vs. $48 per hour gas?

Boat companies need to wake up and offer that Yan Mar engine as an option. Those VW's are somewhere around $20,000 a piece aren't they?
Old     (waketac)      Join Date: Apr 2002       02-13-2008, 11:52 PM Reply   
Hi, here in Europe gascost are much higher. And diesel is cheaper than gas. Gas is about 3,40 $ and diesel 3,05 $ a gallon here now. So there has been a lot of discussion about using diesel engines in the boats.
Probably also due to the fact that there are very few diesel options for wakeboradboats, i only know of session an mastercraft have or had a diesel option, a lot of wakeboardboats are running on LPG (liquid patrol gas) now. Costs about 1,60 $ a gallon, Consumption is about 10 % to 20 % higher and You lose probably between 5 % and 15 % if power. An LPG-Conversion can easily be done on any engine, costs are between 2.250 $ and 5.000 $, and you can switch (literally by a switch on the dashboard) between LPG or gas.
Tanks for Gas can be permanent or bottles to change depending wether the boat is slipped or sitting on a dock.
Old     (gdillyfunk69)      Join Date: Nov 2003       02-14-2008, 7:36 AM Reply   
I actually bought this boat from a yanmar dealer with the engine conversion already done. This dealer worked with MasterCraft to complete my boat as a test boat. Mastercraft sent a boat with no engine but the boat did have the big block transmission. The yanmar dealer (Mastry Engine Center) made the conversion, which they say was very easy. Then they tested it against a gas X-star (Zane Schwenk's Boat). Thats how they got all of those numbers and stats.

After all that, mastercraft decided not to go with Yanmar, and went with the less HP VW diesel.
Old     (gdillyfunk69)      Join Date: Nov 2003       02-14-2008, 7:42 AM Reply   
The VW diesel only has 225 HP.... the yanmar has 315 hp......

Thats damn near 100 more hp than the VW...

I think mastercraft made a mistake on that one
Old     (andy_nintzel)      Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Minnesnowda       02-14-2008, 7:59 AM Reply   
I am into the idea of Diesel boats, my only question is how long does it take to get the diesel smell off your hand? That gas stinks!
Old     (ldr)      Join Date: Nov 2002       02-14-2008, 8:00 AM Reply   
but what's the torque difference?
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-14-2008, 8:04 AM Reply   
does HP even really matter? I what are the torque numbers for the engines...

H1 hummers have only 195 hp and 430 ft. lbs... something like that would be all a wakeboard boat would need, but then again I may no idea
Old     (pearsonville)      Join Date: Feb 2002       02-14-2008, 8:50 AM Reply   
Wondering what the pollution factor is vs a standard gas boat...
Aloha Joe
Old     (svguy)      Join Date: Jan 2004       02-14-2008, 10:20 AM Reply   
The best I can tell, here is the particular 315hp Yanmar engine with torque & hp curves.

http://www.yanmarmarine.com/uploads/products/pdf/LPA/6LPA-STP2.pdf
Old     (bill)      Join Date: Feb 2001       02-14-2008, 10:42 AM Reply   
yea that 12-15 sounds way high but i do not have that big of an engine..i have the indmar 250 carbed engine and i use about 6-7 gals an hour but thats an approximation since runnning verses sitting time can really be calcualted but i used 15.6 gals for a day where we took 4 sets at about 20-30 min each and didnt drive a long way to our line ..so i do not know how to calcualte that but thats about 2 hrs of riding plus the driving to and from ramp,idling etc so a low estimate is 7 gph and a high estimate is 8gph..

if you add the weight of engine and bigger battery and up front cost of a diesel plus diesel here in tx is 40 cents a gallon more id say it would cost more to run a diesel or the same and would never recoup the upfront costs of purchase..

or am i confused?

i have an f250 with 4x4 truck with 7.3 diesel in it and i had a 1500 dodge truck with hemi gas v8 .

I am getting about the same gas mileage on avg town vs hwy but i have a 30percent bigger/heavier truck now so i guess thats a plus for the diesel..

Now the big advantage of diesel is it gets about 4 miles to the gallon better pulling the boat..

the big Con is its 40 cents more a gallon and cost me about 4k more for this truck then my old one..

so is it a wash and i get a bigger truck so no big deal??
Old     (gdillyfunk69)      Join Date: Nov 2003       02-14-2008, 12:41 PM Reply   
I am not making up the numbers here people... Zanes X-Star with the 8.1 liter big block and pro tour ballast was burning 12-15 gallons per hour.

Also, this engine runs WAYYY cleaner than a gas engine, and is much more enviornmentally friendly.

ALSO, this engine DOES NOT out way the 8.1 Liter by much. The diesel is like 45 pounds heavier than the big block.

ALSO, you do not need any type of different batteries or anything.

I think I replyed to all the things BILL said....

The torque on the yanmar is apperently much more than the VW.... don't quote me on taht one though.
Old     (gdillyfunk69)      Join Date: Nov 2003       02-14-2008, 12:48 PM Reply   
http://www.mastry.com/flash/pdfs/LPA/6LPA-STP_TechData.pdf
Old     (bill)      Join Date: Feb 2001       02-14-2008, 2:08 PM Reply   
chris i guess i shouldnt compare it to my 7.3 liter truck but it has two huge batteries to start it..plus its very heavy..

thanks for the info though..
Old     (hoosairboy)      Join Date: Aug 2005       02-14-2008, 2:45 PM Reply   
Wakeboard boats are an ideal application for Diesels IMO. Heavy loads are more suitable for Diesel than gas. You don't see many heavy use engines use gas over diesel. I will definitely go Diesel when they come out. Why would you not go diesel? Donesn't the diese have a lot more life than gas, is cheaper and better for the engine. I am curious. Can someone list advantages of diesel over gas?
Old     (bill)      Join Date: Feb 2001       02-14-2008, 3:04 PM Reply   
i cant tell you much more advantages over longer lasting,a tad bid better fuel mileage at high loads and more torgue at lower HP..i would like to hear more as well..

however owning a diesel truck i can tell you oil changes are a lot more money,louder engine decibels,diesel fuel cost more,they are usually heavier ,they take bigger batterys to start them,and they cost more up front to purchase..
Old     (gdillyfunk69)      Join Date: Nov 2003       02-14-2008, 3:14 PM Reply   
I will throw out a few:

1. No harmful emmisions
2. No need for a blower (no fumes in engine room)
3. FAR fewer oil changes
4. THEY LAST FOREVER!!! My engine has a 2,000 hour warrenty!
5. AWESOME amount of low end torque
6. No need for larger batteries or glow plugs or anything.
7.Uses roughly 1/3 the amount of fuel as a gas boat.
8. Around here diesel is actually cheaper or about the same price.
9.About the same weight as a gas engine
10. Turbo charged for faster acceleration
11. Intercooled cooling system (perfect for saltwater use)
12. Maybe a tad bit louder than a gas engine but not much. Mostly just a DIFFERENT sound (not louder.)
13. Perfect for large amounts of ballast (as soon as turbo kicks in, you can't even tell there is weight in the boat)
14. No need for Perfect Pass. High amount of torque allows you to just move the throttle to the right speed, and the engine holds it PERFECT!
15. Cheaper to insure. Most insurances will give discounts on the fact the boat is diesel. SAFER
}
Old     (gdillyfunk69)      Join Date: Nov 2003       02-14-2008, 3:16 PM Reply   
to add onto number 4, (they last forever) I will share a litle story. When I went in to first pick up my boat, they were servicing a Par-a-Sail boat for its 6,000 hour scheduled matinence. Nothing but changing the fluids!!!

Crazy
Old     (riverside)      Join Date: Mar 2002       02-14-2008, 10:48 PM Reply   
@ wakemark,
how do you calculate?
1 gallon = 3.78 ltr
1 ltr gas = 1.44 x 3.78= 5.44 euro a gallon.

1 euro = $ 1.45 so in dollars and gallons we europeans pay +/- 7.89 dollar a Gallon.
Old     (ilikebeaverandboats)      Join Date: Jul 2007       02-22-2008, 11:26 PM Reply   
Diesel is more efficient and burns cleaner! they should but a powerstroke in one of these and chip it! that would be awesome!!!!! would be way powerful and would get a fully ballasted boat movin easily!
Old     (robandrus)      Join Date: Feb 2002       02-23-2008, 4:17 PM Reply   
If any of you follow racing Audi has some new turbo diesels that are unbelievable, are winning the top class and are strangely quiet, kind of a hum vs the roar of the gas engines. Pretty cool. (Sorry I can't think of the name of the racing class, I went to a race last spring at Miller sports park in Utah)
Old     (tdiggity)      Join Date: Dec 2006       02-23-2008, 4:52 PM Reply   
Diesels are nice , but if youre on a lake like mine there are no gas docks that sell diesel fuel.
Old     (woreout)      Join Date: Aug 2006       02-25-2008, 9:34 AM Reply   
If i put gas in milk jugs does that mean my boat runs on dairy products?
Old     (sidekicknicholas)      Join Date: Mar 2007       02-25-2008, 9:37 AM Reply   
our wisconsin nautique runs on Dairy...
Old     (kmcginty)      Join Date: Sep 2005       02-26-2008, 2:35 PM Reply   
That sucks nick. Here in Milwaukee a gallon of Milk is expensive. Unless you have the cow on board for free fuel and bonus ballast.

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