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Old     (steve300ex)      Join Date: Feb 2007       07-28-2008, 6:04 PM Reply   
i know this is a reoccuring issue with alot of centurion owners. after reading all these post about the washy port wake, i tried everything that seemed to work for some of you, i have 200 lb lead blocks under the port side seat i moved my anchors to the port front compartment. I tried moving myself 180lbs while my girl 110lbs drove. i even hung off the side of the tower to try and lean the boat, i tried 20 21 22 23 24 25 mph i even filled only the center tank and the 400lb port sac along with the lead and me moving around on the port side. NOTHING changed it, it ruined the starboard side and still was washy. now that i know i cannot fix this problem like some of you have with weight im running out of options, oh yeah tried all the plate adjustments also.the only thing that i can do to clean up the port is to turn the boat to the left So, here is my maybe last hope, it could be a load of crap but here it is. Does everyones boat pull hard to the right if your not holding on to the wheel? my rudder is preloaded to turn right all the time so im countering it by steering slightly left to go straight. i believe that this could be the problem. im assuming that this is making my hull lean right normally creating a sweet and crisp starboard wake. i read in my manual that this is preloaded to the right from the factory to help with more accurate steering. If i could change it then when the boat steers left when i let go i would be countering by turning the wheel to the right.my next thought is that some are preloaded more than others and thats why some of u can get away with 150lbs extra, but i can;t and i know there are alot on here that can't.
I also just read a thread about an 02 xstar who changed his steering cable and now his one side wake is washed, which is making me more
determined. so, is anyone familiar with how to undo or change this preload? i am willing to try it even if it makes no sense to some of you. im desperate if this doesn't work im gonna make some nasty emails to centurion about this ridiculous prob. Or i might get to the point where i go for it with the sledge on the fins. let me here your thoughts. excuse my grammar im in a rush
Old    Ben Kerran            07-28-2008, 6:09 PM Reply   
Steve-Not sure on how to change the steering "pre-load" but interested to hear how it works out, so keep us in the loop. Mine does clean up with some weight under the passenger seat, but not until 22 or so. If you do decide to go the fin route, contact Coop, I am told he really enjoys correcting Centurion Fins via Sledge Hammer
Old     (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       07-28-2008, 8:21 PM Reply   
Wow, that sucks. I feel for ya. To do all that legwork and still not get it resolved. I wish I could tell you how to get the pull out of it, I think it envolves grinding the rudder somehow but not sure as I have never, nor would I ever own a boat or take delivery of a boat that pulls. I have driven ones that did and found it irritating and thought it was dangerous.
Old     (xstarrider)      Join Date: Jun 2007       07-28-2008, 10:14 PM Reply   
If I recall there was a post abot some avy's having the skegs mis alligned. Hopefully you or someone can find that old post. I can't recall if the dealer did the work or it was sent back to Centurion. But that boat shouldn't pull like that it should drive straight when you let go of the wheel. Sounds like something is wrong for sure
Old     (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-28-2008, 10:18 PM Reply   
The load comes from the Rudder being ground on.
You can grind on the other side to bring it back to neutral. You could also install the new Centurion ruder that has an adjustable tab that will let you customize the tourqe
Old     (mtj721)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-29-2008, 8:00 AM Reply   
Steve-

Keep us posted. We've tried it ALL just like you, as you can read in a thread I posted on a week or so ago, we even brought ours to Cope and McPheters to have them try to fix it. Brought it back out and $300 later it looks exactly the same.

Like you, the only way it ever cleans up at any speed is by steering the boat to the left. If shaving the rudder works, I'd be very interested to find out how you did it or whether you went through a Centurion dealer to take care of it.

Thanks,
Michael
Old     (steve300ex)      Join Date: Feb 2007       07-29-2008, 2:37 PM Reply   
micheal does ur boat pull very hard to the right? If the guys who can fix it with weight don't have a hard pulling issue then maybe this will confirm my thought. Kevin can it be adjusted through the cable or should i bust out the grinder. Should i see grind marks already on the right side of my rudder that i should match?
Old     (steve300ex)      Join Date: Feb 2007       07-29-2008, 2:39 PM Reply   
if this doesn't work, maybe i could grind my fins to reshape them rather then sledging. thats starting to sound not so appetizing. any thoughts.
Old    Ben Kerran            07-29-2008, 2:44 PM Reply   
Steve- mine definitely pulls gently to the right. I actually prefer this (assuming it is not the reason for the port side wash at slow speeds). You can see the shave/ grind area clearly on my rudder.
Old     (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-29-2008, 3:04 PM Reply   
The cable will not change anything.
You will have to grind on the rudder If you want to take out the right pull you grind on the left trailing edge of the rudder. Do a little at a time. It is better to do it serveral times than to go too far. I doubt that it will fix the port wash.

I had the fins adjusted on my 2005 Cyclone and if fixed the problem
Old     (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-29-2008, 3:05 PM Reply   
"if this doesn't work im gonna make some nasty emails to centurion about this ridiculous prob."

Not the rout I would recommend
Old     (2onboone)      Join Date: Mar 2007       07-29-2008, 3:11 PM Reply   
i have a 06 avy and itpulls to one side also but is that not due a little bit to rudder placement prop rotation
i never gave it much thought because i was told that it was an "inboard thing"
it's not enough to bother me though
Old    mendo247            07-29-2008, 3:21 PM Reply   
Bummer man. I have heard that eventually weight will fix this. Hang in there and hopefully youll get the problem resolved. I cant believe Centurion hasnt come up with something.


quote:

"if this doesn't work im gonna make some nasty emails to centurion about this ridiculous prob."




Id try a nice email first, see what they say. If that doesnt work then id probablly drive straight to the factory with my boat in tow.

Just because 8tens asked I have heard of people (some say Centurion suggested and dealers have even done it) that the probelm can be fixed with a little massaging of the tracking fins, preferably with tools like these.

Upload
Old     (mtj721)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-29-2008, 4:00 PM Reply   
Steve,

Yes it does pull very hard to the right on my boat.

Kevin,

If not emails to the factory, then who? It's a hard thing to swallow when you buy a wakeboat that has 1 good wake. We have spent hours, almost as many hours as we've spent riding, trying to fix the port side wash. I brought mine in to the dealer, mentioned the tracking fin adjustment, spent $300 for them to fix a center ballast issue and tell me my wake was now "dialed", only to get it back and find that the wake was exactly the same.

If not the dealer or the manufacturer? Then who? Who can make my wakeboat have 2 good wakes? Is Centurion ok with having a reputation for having 1 good wake? I don't think they want that and I'm assuming they'd want to fix an issue like that.

(Message edited by mtj721 on July 29, 2008)
Old     (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-29-2008, 4:15 PM Reply   
I did not say don't email the factory.
it was this 'some nasty emails' You should always try being polite and asking for help, going nasty in your first try in my experience is never a good idea.
Old     (mtj721)      Join Date: Jul 2007       07-29-2008, 4:46 PM Reply   
Haha. Good point. I just thought you were implying it was a bad idea to contact the manufacturer for some reason.
Old     (mars)      Join Date: Aug 2005       07-29-2008, 5:47 PM Reply   
another route would be to try to contact some of the pros that run centurions...
the adam fields of the world (he has a wakeboard school he pulled with avys up to last year-now on enzo) might have some insight.
I was able to fix our cyclone wake (which was much washier than your avy due to the narrower beam) with a little weight next to the battery and in the port rear locker and by training passengers to spot the wash when it would rear its head and move.
We now run one of their newer hulls which have NO wash anywhere and a nice,progressive rampy wake but have a ride that will shake your dental work loose when things get rougher.
Old     (steve300ex)      Join Date: Feb 2007       07-29-2008, 7:52 PM Reply   
well, i no by many trial and errors this problem CAN NOT be fixed with weight on my boat as you can read in my first post. I just looked at my rudder and there is no sign of rudder grinding on either side, so im not sure what the deal is with that, i mean it is alittle dark out but i will check again in the morning and if for some reason i can see something than ok, but i will post the photos of it tom. Kevin, who adjusted the fins on your cyclone. i am at the end of my rope, i have emailed centurion about this last season and i got no response. I believe that they know this is a problem and don't want to comment on it. I will try again but im sure they will not respond. I truly believe its either a fin or rudder problem.
Old     (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-29-2008, 8:06 PM Reply   
My dealer adjusted them.
Steve who is your dealer?
Old     (steve300ex)      Join Date: Feb 2007       07-29-2008, 8:11 PM Reply   
chessie marine in maryland was the only one, which is not the greatest, but i belive sos in toms river nj is now a dealer but there new and i doubt they know anything about this. i took your advice and emailed centurion a polite email. i will see what they say. hopefully i get a response. i even told them i would gladly drive to nc to have them look for themselves.
Old     (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-29-2008, 8:14 PM Reply   
Sounds good what was the email address did you use?
Old     (mars)      Join Date: Aug 2005       07-30-2008, 3:52 AM Reply   
On your way to NC you may want to stop at airtimewatersports in south eastern VA, a lot of the DC area riders use them and they have a good service reputation.
They've done right by me--as it turns out they are the sponsoring dealer for adam fields.
Old     (steve300ex)      Join Date: Feb 2007       07-30-2008, 8:41 AM Reply   
kevin, i just used the link on the site, probably won't make it far,but i dunno anything else. i just checked my rudder again there are no signs of grinding except for the rounded back part of it but they look equal. i also fished around with a framing square on the fins they appear in line and true to the center of the boat atleast very close. maybe they have to be exaggerated one way to fix the problem. Kevin, you seem to have alittle pull with centruion maybe you could drop and email or something or maybe ask the dealer how they adjusted the fins. it looks like i could unbolt them, bend them on the bench, then bolt them back up rather then sledging them and ripping my fiberglass to shreds.
Old     (steve300ex)      Join Date: Feb 2007       07-30-2008, 8:53 AM Reply   
here goes the pics of the rudderUpload
Upload
Upload
Upload
Old     (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-30-2008, 3:26 PM Reply   
You are not going to see grind marks
If you want to take out some of the tourque off the wheel grind here

Upload

I don't know about "pull" but let me see what I can do
Old     (steve300ex)      Join Date: Feb 2007       07-30-2008, 6:21 PM Reply   
Grind on the side or just half of the rear edge. Well kevin i did get alittle assistance, i emailed centruion and airtime marine in VA he forward it to another guy at fineline. they both contact me and asked me afew questions about motors and vin numbers so hopefully we get somewhere. ill keep you guys in the loop.
Old     (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       07-30-2008, 6:25 PM Reply   
Just the rear edge. Grid down that rounded edge

Fantastic! Keep us posted

(Message edited by krbaugh on July 30, 2008)
Old     (jayson_49)      Join Date: May 2007       07-31-2008, 12:46 AM Reply   
I thought all boats are tested on the water after production, doesn't the kind folks at Centurion examine the wake? after all, these are WAKEboard boats!!
Old     (jayson_49)      Join Date: May 2007       07-31-2008, 12:50 AM Reply   
"Oh, what's a little port side wash, no big deal!"
Old     (jayson_49)      Join Date: May 2007       07-31-2008, 1:21 AM Reply   
"They won't even notice!!!"
Old     (sailing216)      Join Date: Oct 2007       07-31-2008, 6:39 PM Reply   
I have the switchblade on my Avy and on the starboard side of the vertical part of the blade is shaved off like your pic above would be (but you are going to do it on the port side). I do much more surfing, but the blade is shaved that way to clean up the wake on the Goofy starboard side---compensate for prop wash.

Looks like you are using the 3-blade stock prop. Have you tried other props? I'd like to know as this winter I'm going to throw on a 4-blade with 14.25" or 16". Borrow someone's spare prop or get another and use it as a spare would be my suggestion before shaving the rudder.

I'd post where you are located and if anyone in the area has a spare 4-blade prop you could borrow for a week. Good luck keep us posted.
Old     (steve300ex)      Join Date: Feb 2007       08-01-2008, 12:11 PM Reply   
That prop is a acme 911, acme recomended that one for more low end, i had a 480 or something like that , i also have a 525 they all work the same. i never tried a 4 blade but acme doesnt recomend those. are your wakes clean at bording speeds? i havent gotten a response back from centurion, im gonna follow up.
Old     (mars)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-01-2008, 8:48 PM Reply   
Can't remember the last time I saw an avy with a three blader... what year is your boat, my impression is they've been shipping with 4 bladers for a little while now.
Old     (steve300ex)      Join Date: Feb 2007       08-02-2008, 4:18 AM Reply   
my boat is an 05, but i talked to acme like i said and he told me the 3 blades were better. micheal do you have a 4 blade? his is an 07 so it probably is and he still has the washed port wake.
Old     (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-02-2008, 10:35 AM Reply   
in 2005 Centurion switched to gear reduction tranys. So from 2005 on they swing much bigger props. To date none of the prop companies of a 3 blade that big that will work. If you dont have gear reduction acmes 3 blade props is the best prop
Old     (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-02-2008, 12:21 PM Reply   
Avalanches have always had 1 or 3 ballast tanks
The Enzos come with 2 or 4 or 5 depending on the boat and how you order it
Old     (mtj721)      Join Date: Jul 2007       08-04-2008, 9:26 AM Reply   
Steve,

Yes, we have the four blade prop.
Old     (steve300ex)      Join Date: Feb 2007       08-07-2008, 8:34 PM Reply   
i was on vacation for a week. just checked my email. i got one from arron at centurion. He told me that they didn't use a jig in 05 to set the tracking fins. so for me to hit the front one with a dead blow hammer. He was alittle (washy)lol on the directions so im gonna call him tom to get the exact method. Anyone think its a bad idea to heat it up with a torch first to make it move easier? Micheal, yours proabably slipped in the jig I will give you his email if you want maybe he can talk to the dealer and get it covered for you. I am very curious though if you tried tuning your rudder to make the boat turn to the left. i would much rather grind my rudder than wack my fins if that worked, but your rudder is adjustable.
Old    walt            08-07-2008, 9:19 PM Reply   

quote:

i got one from arron at centurion. He told me that they didn't use a jig in 05 to set the tracking fins. so for me to hit the front one with a dead blow hammer




Ask Aaron if he's going to repair your boat if the dead blow hammer deal goes bad. Do yourself a favor and don't attempt this. If thats what needs to be done take it to centurion and let a pro do it.
Old    mendo247            08-07-2008, 9:25 PM Reply   
Didnt i suggest that 20 posts ago? Id take it to the dealer and let them "adjust" the fins.
Old     (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-07-2008, 9:25 PM Reply   
I would not heat it up.
I watched my dealer do this it is OMG that is one strong hull. On my boat they bent the back of the fin to the passenger side. After they where done if you knew what you where looking for you could see the bend but it was not a huge amount.
Old    mendo247            08-08-2008, 7:05 AM Reply   
Tow it to Watkins Glen this weekend! Im sure you will have little problem finding someone their to discuss this problem with
Old     (stanfield)      Join Date: Mar 2004       08-08-2008, 7:32 AM Reply   
Hit your boat with a hammer, that will fix it. LOL I can't believe a manufacturer would recommend that to a customer.
Old     (steve300ex)      Join Date: Feb 2007       08-08-2008, 8:20 AM Reply   
well, i just whaled it, i called him he told me to hit the rear of the front fin from the starboard side toward the port side to tweak it. he said this would probably fix the steering issue also. i hit it hard many times with a 3 lb hand maul it hardly moved. i got it about 1/8 to 3/16 not sure if thats enough, but if it has to go 3/8 or more its gonna be scary. kevin how much would u estimeate yours is moved. im gonna water test it later today to see if its enough.
Old     (wakeboardsam)      Join Date: Jun 2008       08-08-2008, 8:59 AM Reply   
just curious, did you test drive this boat before you bought it??? Or did the wake somehow change afterwards??? It seems like it would be like me complaining to Tige' that my wake wasn't like a Super Air.
Old     (mtj721)      Join Date: Jul 2007       08-08-2008, 10:01 AM Reply   
Or it's like buying a 4 wheel drive truck in the summer and finding out after the first snow that the 4 wheel drive on your $55k 4x4 doesn't work. Sure you took it for a test drive, but your concern was not whether the 4 wheel drive would engage because there were other details to concern yourself with. Thanks for your input though. You're one of the helpful ones on wakeworld aren't you?
Old     (steve300ex)      Join Date: Feb 2007       08-09-2008, 2:44 PM Reply   
Do NOT Attempt. I don't know how they get away with telling people to do this. I spoke with the guy from centruion 6 times and he assured me each time not to be scared and they adjust them like that all the time and they had 2 boats there that day and thats how they were fixing them. so i attempted, barely got it to bend and after a few water tests and more persuasion the fin got aliitle loose from the boat. i called back they said to just tighten it up. so i come back to find out that is just threaded with machine threads right to the bottom of the hull and now the two holes are stripped and wadded up. this is a terrible solution. i was under the impression that they were nuted from the top and nearly impossible to get off. if i had know this i definetaly would of took it off first, but again they were extremely convincing this was fine to do and they to it all the time. i marine tex the holes up and re threaded them but this could of been a disaster. i could of easily cracked the hull. so anyway i put them in a vice heated them and tried to bend them with all my force on a 4lb sledge and they DO NOT bend. i don't understand how they could twist toward the starboard side casue there mounted solid at the top. Does anyone know wich way they actually should face to fix the port side wash, first they told me hit the rear of the front fin toward the port side then a few calls later they told me to hit the rear side of the front fin toward the starboard. so im alittle confused. If the fins are definetely the source of the problem i may mount a wedge to the one side to try and offset it or cut half way down the top to allow me to twist it in a vice then braze it back but im not sure about the direction. Micheal do not let them hit yours it jeopordizing your hull and really is a terrible solution to the problem. Demand a new set of fins and try that out. they did tell me they would send me 2 new ones to try maybe that would help.
Old     (wake_upppp)      Join Date: Nov 2003       08-09-2008, 2:50 PM Reply   
I feel for ya. That sucks. What a nightmare.
Old     (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-09-2008, 3:04 PM Reply   
All I can tell you is I witnessed this on my 2005 Cyclone and it worked

What you are looking for looking from the back of the boat is the back fins should bend a small amount (like I said above) to the passenger side and yes they will be bent more at the bottom than the top since they are mounted at the top.
Centurion and many other manufactures do not thru bolt there fins

(Message edited by krbaugh on August 09, 2008)
Old     (steve300ex)      Join Date: Feb 2007       08-09-2008, 3:09 PM Reply   
they told me to bend the front fin rear side toward the driver. I have a port wash issue. Its fine not to thru bolt them, they stay on there great but if your gonna attempt a 2 handed swing with a sledge i assure everyone that this is damaging the glass around the bolt. I am frustrated and dissapointed about the whole thing. im not trying to trash centruion cause i love my boat but i need this resolved and this trick is bogus. my fins are casted maybe the newer ones are forged or something that will bend easier but they are extremely strong.
Old     (steve300ex)      Join Date: Feb 2007       08-09-2008, 3:17 PM Reply   
kevin your wash was on the port side also? i wish they actually knew when i was doin this, up unil the last time i called him he told me to hit it to the passenger side then the last time the told me the driver side. after i had already bent it alittle and before is became loose.
Old     (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-09-2008, 3:28 PM Reply   
Yes my wash was on the port side(passenger side)
Old     (steve300ex)      Join Date: Feb 2007       08-11-2008, 9:38 AM Reply   
kevin, sorry to beat this dead horse but depending on a few things we could be talking about different directinos of the fins. so number below did yours look like? also do u know who makes the tunable rudder for centurion im gonna buy one of them also to help with the steering if this fin adjusment works. im gonna oval out the holes and use bolts with washers for the test considering centurion said they would give me new fins.

Upload
Old     (mars)      Join Date: Aug 2005       08-12-2008, 4:36 AM Reply   
My Centurion's tracking fins are offset and staggered from the center line of the boat... just to help confuse things further. I guess Centurion has been playing around with slip angle on their boats lately-strange thing is, they run the fins the same way regardless of prop rotation.
I have the tunable rudder but it doesn't seem to do much. The pivot of the trim is not at the leading edge of the tab so as you angle the back out on one side, the front of the tab protrudes on the other assumably negating some of its effect.
May want to talk to a glass shop to see about adding "hook" to one side of the hull. An old time slalom guy told me that was how they tuned the Master Craft's he was pulled by for competitions. Don't know if that would be applicable to the slower speeds, larger displacements of a wake board boat. My sense is that if it can't be solved by weight alone then some hook in the won't help.
Old     (krbaugh)      Join Date: Mar 2002       08-12-2008, 6:05 AM Reply   
looking from the back mine looked like 2 but about half that much angle
Old     (steve300ex)      Join Date: Feb 2007       08-12-2008, 8:47 PM Reply   
tried it like 6 above today probably 3/4 of an inch. same thing, i also tried 1 with no success. also took them off and it was exactly the same. starting to think its something else. also to make the boat go straight the rudder has to be about 30-45 degress turned. the front is toward the driver side. seems like its directing all the water right to the port side. something don't seem right about that.
Old     (towboat_222)      Join Date: Feb 2007       08-14-2008, 6:44 AM Reply   
Did you check the cable holder under the motor to make sure the cable has not slipped.

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