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Old     (davesetter)      Join Date: Jan 2014       12-11-2015, 7:26 AM Reply   
I own a 2013 Malibu 22 MXZ. Impellor was changed in the spring of this year as I always do. Near the end of summer I took the boat out. After running maybe an hour the engine overheat light came on.The temp gauge showed 235. I shut the boat down and called my dealer. He advised me to tow the boat in. I immediately suspected an impellor failure because I had the exact thing happen to me with a 2012 Wakesetter I had owned. The brass spline in the impellor had stripped loose from the rubber. After I got the boat on the lift at home I removed the impellor and found it had stripped just like the previous one. I received a new impellor later that week installed it and took the boat out for a test spin and everything seemed normal. Not overheat alerts and the temp holding steady. I put the boat back on the lift and did not run her for about four weeks.

A couple of weeks ago I decide to take her out for a cruise before I did the winterization. The starter would not turn the engine over. I took the boat to the dealer. Thy are now telling me the manifolds are cracked, possible bent crankshaft and other damage and that Indmar will not cover it under their warranty because there is an overheat code on the boats computer. Am I wrong to feel like I'm getting screwed?On the 2012 Wakesetter Indmar paid for the repairs. The manifolds got so hot that the paint blistered. They then cracked.

Has anyone else had an experience like this.
Old     (meathead65)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-11-2015, 8:10 AM Reply   
I see a future where engine software is going to shut the engine down once temps hit 200.
Does anyone watch their gauges anymore?
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       12-11-2015, 8:12 AM Reply   
Well...... IMO.....

Newer indmar engines (like yours) should have an overheat shutdown to prevent engine damage from impellor failure. Also, the impellor is a Indmar engine assembly component, which should be covered under warranty for premature failure.

So.... If that is actually how it all went down, yes, I think they should cover you.

I wonder what Indmar's overheat trigger temp is?? I think on an Ilmore it will go into limp at 190, and shut down at 210. Not sure about PCM yet.
Old     (meathead65)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-11-2015, 8:16 AM Reply   
Symptoms don't add up..... If you had ingested water into the cylinders and bent the crank(hugely improbable), it would have shown immediately and your test drive with the new impeller would not have been trouble free. If, however, the initial overheat damaged the manifolds or head gaskets, and the test run was very very short, the cylinders may have hydrolocked while the engine was shut down on the lift.

2 impeller failures like you describe is also statistically rare.....was there any damage or wear to the impeller blades or just a hub failure?
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       12-11-2015, 8:36 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by meathead65 View Post
Symptoms don't add up..... If you had ingested water into the cylinders and bent the crank(hugely improbable), it would have shown immediately and your test drive with the new impeller would not have been trouble free. If, however, the initial overheat damaged the manifolds or head gaskets, and the test run was very very short, the cylinders may have hydrolocked while the engine was shut down on the lift.
I think you answered yourself there

I am guessing that is exactly what happened..... Besides the fact that when you overheat cast iron, it doesn't necessarily crack right then. The heat can make it brittle, and it can then crack during the next heat cycle, or soon after. Or it can cause hairline cracks that don't leak instantly. Then the boat sits, and the jacket water runs on top of the piston.... then it wont crank over.

If it was only hydrolocked when he tried to start it, the starter didn't likely cause damage. It will probably be a manifold swap, head gaskets, and an oil change.
Old     (davesetter)      Join Date: Jan 2014       12-11-2015, 9:06 AM Reply   
Meathead I think you hit it on the head. The test run was short. The dealer is guessing the crank may be bent. As far as the impellor goes no damge to the fins in either case a spun hub both times. The first time it happened the dealer told me that he had dealt with a few other cases that year of the hub spinning. However improbable... it happened. Still waiting to hear back from Indmar. Dealer says next step would be to pull the engine and send to Indmar. Seems to me that if impellor failed that is part of the engine and caused the overheat and therefore should be covered.
Old     (davesetter)      Join Date: Jan 2014       12-11-2015, 9:11 AM Reply   
Eric, that is exactly how it went down and the motor never went into limp mode. I think the motor temp was 230 when the alarm flashed. If the impellor failure can cause that much damage that quickly then limp mode should kick in at a much lower temp.
Old     (tyler97217)      Join Date: Aug 2004       12-11-2015, 9:22 AM Reply   
This really stinks for you. I would imagine that if you had the boat serviced at your dealer they would then have covered this under warranty?
This really supports the theory of when the boat is under warranty, let the dealer do all the work. That way there is no outs for a manufacturer to point blame.
I am no mechanic, but certainly wish you luck getting it all resolved.
Old     (davesetter)      Join Date: Jan 2014       12-11-2015, 9:52 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler97217 View Post
This really stinks for you. I would imagine that if you had the boat serviced at your dealer they would then have covered this under warranty?
This really supports the theory of when the boat is under warranty, let the dealer do all the work. That way there is no outs for a manufacturer to point blame.
I am no mechanic, but certainly wish you luck getting it all resolved.
Not sure if me doing the work is the issue. Apparently the dealer has to retrieve info from boats computer, send to Indmar and they make the determination if issue is covered under warranty. An overheat code apparently nullifies my warranty. They're trying to say it's a maintenance issue. Like not checking your oil. This is the fifth boat I have owned with an Indmar engine and have never had any issues with warranty repairs. If they do not cover this, it will my last boat powered by an Indmar product. Thanks for the support.
Old     (imscarlet)      Join Date: Mar 2008       12-11-2015, 12:14 PM Reply   
Can I ask a dumb question but where did these impellers come from and why do you think an engine manufacturer should cover damage resulting from a consumable or am I missing something here
Old     (Spoone)      Join Date: Sep 2010       12-11-2015, 1:34 PM Reply   
I had the same thing happen to my 2009 VTX. I had all maintenance work done by the dealer while it was under warranty. One year and two impellers later, my boat over heated and temp shot up to 240. I knew instantly it was the water pump as water was gushing from it with the boat turned off. The warning light never came on and it never went into protection. I suspected my dealer was screwing me (I'm not mentioning any names but they WERE a Malibu dealer in Lenoir City, TN) so I took it to another Malibu dealer in the area and they said my impeller had never been changed since I had owned the boat, even though I had paid for this twice, and that Indmar would not cover the blown motor. They submitted my claim anyway and two weeks later Indmar shipped them a brand new crate motor at no charge. Indmar is top notch in my book so I would still have your dealer contact them.
Old     (Fixable)      Join Date: Oct 2012       12-11-2015, 3:23 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by imscarlet View Post
Can I ask a dumb question but where did these impellers come from and why do you think an engine manufacturer should cover damage resulting from a consumable or am I missing something here
Just because it is a wear item, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be covered if it prematurely fails.... The hub spinning out is not the wear portion of the part.

If the indmar installed oil filter internals disintegrated in 20 hours and ruined the engine, should it not be covered as well?

....IMO
Old     (imscarlet)      Join Date: Mar 2008       12-12-2015, 3:12 AM Reply   
As I said where did it come from yes if Indmar supplied fair enough if dealer sources them from someone else then why should Indmar cough up?
Old     (challengerwake)      Join Date: Mar 2015       12-12-2015, 5:39 AM Reply   
I would try and bypass the dealer and go straight to Indmar and deal with them yourself. In my past dealing with things of this nature going straight to the manufacturer works. Then go to Malibu if that doesn't work.

Last edited by challengerwake; 12-12-2015 at 5:41 AM.
Old     (davesetter)      Join Date: Jan 2014       12-13-2015, 6:36 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by imscarlet View Post
Can I ask a dumb question but where did these impellers come from and why do you think an engine manufacturer should cover damage resulting from a consumable or am I missing something here
Both impellers came from the dealer. They were both Johnson the brand Indmar uses and I suspect other marine engine manufacturers use. I change them each spring. Neither impeller had more than 40 hours on them and in each case the brass hub separated from the rubber.
Old     (bboozer)      Join Date: Apr 2007       12-13-2015, 7:02 AM Reply   
I had a different type issue years back on my 96 Prostar 205 (Indmar LT1 engine). I was 1 month out of the 2 yr warranty and had a rear main seal fail and lost the motor. I had all regular services done at the dealer and their certified mechanic said that was what occurred. The dealer went to bat for me with Mastercraft and they would not budge.... They said that 1 month out of warranty "was out of warranty".... That left a very bad taste in my mouth with Mastercraft as that was my 2nd one and I was Brand Loyal... On a whim I contacted my insurance company (Ski Safe) and don't ask me why, but they covered it as a" catastrophic failure".... So I got a new LT1 with a 3 yr warranty and the dealer did not charge me my insurance deductible. Needless to say that I am VERY brand loyal to Ski Safe now... And I don't know if it will help in your case, but can't hurt to make a call and try. Good Luck
Old     (davesetter)      Join Date: Jan 2014       12-13-2015, 7:32 AM Reply   
That's good to know. Ski Safe is my insurance as well. The strange thing about this deal is when the impeller spun on the 2012 and the manifolds cracked, all was covered no questions asked.
Old     (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       12-13-2015, 9:41 AM Reply   
I know this is unlikely, but if the hub separated like that twice, is it possible the pump is bad somehow? Like it is holding the impeller too tightly or something? It just seems pretty unlikely to happen twice to same person.

P.S. I am with skisafe also....
Old     (tre)      Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: WI       12-13-2015, 9:51 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottb7 View Post
I know this is unlikely, but if the hub separated like that twice, is it possible the pump is bad somehow? Like it is holding the impeller too tightly or something? It just seems pretty unlikely to happen twice to same person.
I completely agree with this. The metal center separating from the rubber part of the impeller twice in the same boat is super odd. There must be some sort of defect in the pump housing. 40 hours on the impeller is not a lot of hours.
Old     (cadunkle)      Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: NJ       12-13-2015, 10:38 AM Reply   
It's a wear item, but it was under 1 yr old and the failure mode was an outright failure rather than wear. You should have been watching your gauges, or whoever was driving should have been. I know the drill though in that at least with my boat I'd be surprised if I was driving for even half the hours on it, not everyone who drives is an OCD boat owner like many of us.

I'm inclined to believe you're getting screwed if they won't repair or replace the engine under warranty. It's practically a new boat, Indmar specced that pump for the engine as part of their package. They can take it up with whoever made the pump if they want, but if the impeller failed as you describe then someone is on the hook for your repairs, morally, ethically, and likely legally as well.

I think the important question as to whether you have a case to hold them liable for anything is what was the brand and PN of the impeller that failed and that you have a receipt? It better be an Indmar part, or whoever manufactured the raw water pump that came on the engine (Sherwood, etc.). Also I'd be pulling that pump and checking it very closely on the bench for problems with the housing, cam, plate, mislabeled/mispackaged impeller, etc... I wouldn't drop the issue. Document all the issues you can find yourself, then try to pawn it off on Indmar (or Malibu/Dealer as secondary path) to repair under warranty. If nobody will work with you do the repairs yourself, document everything, and send them the bill. Take it to court if needed. I'm not a lawyer but I think you have a case and you're not looking at a huge dollar amount so maybe they will come around and push to get their QC in order.
Old     (imscarlet)      Join Date: Mar 2008       12-13-2015, 11:35 AM Reply   
2012 was about the time GM marine installed a batch of circulation pumps that spun the centers out as opposed to the RAW pump and there was a recall but of course some failed before the recall but all were replaced if they failed.
Old     (DenverRider)      Join Date: Feb 2013       12-13-2015, 3:12 PM Reply   
Why would I ever buy a bran new boat? The reasoning used by new boat buyers is always the warranty. Of course if the warranty is worthless then my reasoning for NEVER buying a bran new boat is even more valid. Congratulations on all suckers paying extra for a bran new boat so they can get a worthless warranty. Your last reason for paying all that extra money is gone.
Old     (davesetter)      Join Date: Jan 2014       12-13-2015, 4:13 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by tre View Post
I completely agree with this. The metal center separating from the rubber part of the impeller twice in the same boat is super odd. There must be some sort of defect in the pump housing. 40 hours on the impeller is not a lot of hours.

It was not in the same boat. The first separation happened in a 2012 VLX a year and a half later in a 13 Mxz. They paid for repairs on the VLX but for some reason want to balk now. The owner of the dealership is on vacation and I'm dealing with his manager. I've known the owner for fifteen years and have bought four boats from him. I'm waiting until he gets back before I get to excited. Hopefully he'll be able to get something done.
Old     (meathead65)      Join Date: Sep 2006       12-13-2015, 4:51 PM Reply   
I'm still curious as to how the dealer has diagnosed a bent crankshaft. The timeline you laid out just doesn't support it. The starter motor cannot generate enough force to damage internal engine parts trying to crank a hydrolocked motor, with the possible exception of the flywheel/ring gear.

Not saying the dealer is shady, but be careful the dealer isn't trying to sell a high dollar engine replacement during the slow season.
Old     (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       12-13-2015, 6:29 PM Reply   
You know it is possible you were sucking air somehow and it heated the impeller up and it got stuck and spun the hub....

I damaged an impeller myself this season on spring start up because I did not realize that after a heater install (using low idle-y) you need to close off lines to the heater when you prime the system.
Old     (davesetter)      Join Date: Jan 2014       12-15-2015, 4:53 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by meathead65 View Post
I'm still curious as to how the dealer has diagnosed a bent crankshaft. The timeline you laid out just doesn't support it. The starter motor cannot generate enough force to damage internal engine parts trying to crank a hydrolocked motor, with the possible exception of the flywheel/ring gear.

Not saying the dealer is shady, but be careful the dealer isn't trying to sell a high dollar engine replacement during the slow season.

Not sure why he initially said a possible bent shaft. Now he wants to pull the heads and have them tested, hopefully their good. Replace manifolds, head gaskets and a new starter. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
Old     (Pad1Tai)      Join Date: Jan 2013       12-15-2015, 6:41 AM Reply   
If thats an MCX motor with CatX exhaust manifolds,then the inner liner of the manifold cracked at 240*.. I had it happen to mine.. but just one manifold.. Its not the temp but the dry manifold that cracks it.. The manifolds are aluminium and and they crack at the exhaust port next to the head.. they let water in via the exhaust valve into the cylinder and hydro lock the engine.. It drains into the port after the engines been run and then shut down.. you probably have one cylinder that hydro locked.. true the starter doesn't have enough umph to do much damage.. It's not the crankshaft that bends but the connecting rod that bends in a hydro lock situation. I did a compression check and just replaced the one exhaust manifold ($1000).. Runs great now.. I do all the work myself.. If you have any questions just ask.. Good Luck..

Last edited by Pad1Tai; 12-15-2015 at 6:44 AM.
Old     (wakebordr11)      Join Date: May 2001       12-15-2015, 8:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by davesetter View Post
Not sure why he initially said a possible bent shaft. Now he wants to pull the heads and have them tested, hopefully their good. Replace manifolds, head gaskets and a new starter. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
I am interested to learn about the boat storage methods on the lift, when you start the boat upon lowering it into the water, and also your techniques in changing the impeller.

You've replaced 2 impellers that have spun the housing...??? I'm not trying to insinuate anything, but this is a discussion forum, so let's discuss how or why this is happening...
Old     (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       12-15-2015, 5:05 PM Reply   
Did you pull the plugs and see if any water came out of cylinders?
Old     (scottb7)      Join Date: Oct 2012       12-15-2015, 7:32 PM Reply   
My point is that you could drain everything, be sure pistons are empty of water, and run the engine for a minute or two. This would allow you to test for bad crankshaft, rods, and starter.

Water flowing into engine is necessary for cooling, it is not motor oil, which is for lubrication. You can run the motor and watch engine temp.

Then if it run's why not just go ahead and replace the manifolds yourself, as you say in first post that they said they are cracked.

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