Articles
   
       
Pics/Video
       
Wake 101
   
       
       
Shop
Search
 
 
 
 
 
Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
WakeWorld Home
Email Password
Go Back   WakeWorld > Non-Wakeboarding Discussion

Share 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       09-06-2018, 10:52 PM Reply   
^^^Lol!
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       09-06-2018, 11:04 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blamey View Post
You are probably right. I am very interested to see how it all plays out. I kinda don't want Trump to get impeached. I want him to reap what he has sown, I want him to prove he can actually get things done when he has to work for it and I want him to be president when the recession hits, even though I know he is just going to blame it all on the Democrats.
You kinda donít want him to get impeached??? Dude... Get a grip. You clearly have no compass or testes like most liberals. Take a stand, man. Stop talking in circles and grow a backbone. Say what you mean and mean what you say. Get off the fence, Marcy!!! I also want to know where your screen name came from... your reputation depends on it.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       09-07-2018, 3:55 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
My response is completely honest and has always been consistent. You want to talk honesty. You are acting like you would be with Trump if he was able to secure funding for the wall, when in fact your arguments is it would not work.

Yes. If you robbed a bank and your kids are in the care they are taken in. They try and find a family member. If not, they will be in the foster system. period. end of story. In Obama's years, they made the defacto citizens by releasing them in the country and they sent more. We even have signs to not feed the bears. What makes you think not enforcing your laws are going to stop the behavior?
Why do you continue to make false statements? They do not lock kids up when their parents commit a crime in this country. That is what they did on the border. I find it very dishonest that you are trying to justify that practice. Look, I get it. You think that illegal immigrants are the biggest threat to the country. Say that. Quit trying to mask child abuse by making bad comparisons. It makes you sound extremely dishonest.

There are ways to enforce laws in this country without abusing the most vulnerable.

I will never "be with Trump" with respect to the wall because I think it's a gigantic waste of money. More people are overstaying Visas in the US than we have illegal border crossings.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       09-07-2018, 4:07 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ord27 View Post
so.....a senator gets to decide if documents marked classified, are really classified.
This type of thing needs to stop
Everyone, regardless of which way you lean, ought to hope for the expulsion of these clowns from the senate

If they aren't removed, our system has yet again taken another step down the rabbit hole
So you think it should be okay for information that is no threat of the security of this country or containing any sort of personal information should be able to be "Confidential" because a certain party doesn't want bad decisions to be made public? There was no credible reason why the report that Booker made public should have been "Confidential" except the Republicans didn't want racially-motivated comments made by Kavanaugh to be known. I thought you guys were for more transparency? Draining the swamp?

Booker was right in his decision. I would support a Republican senator committing the same actions if the parties were reversed in this hearing.
Old     (Blamey)      Join Date: Apr 2016       09-07-2018, 4:42 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
You kinda donít want him to get impeached??? Dude... Get a grip. You clearly have no compass or testes like most liberals. Take a stand, man. Stop talking in circles and grow a backbone. Say what you mean and mean what you say. Get off the fence, Marcy!!! I also want to know where your screen name came from... your reputation depends on it.
It's like driving past a car crash. You know you shouldn't look but you have a morbid facination.

Screen name is just my last name.
Old     (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       09-07-2018, 8:08 AM Reply   
wake
for me, it doesn't matter what is in the document. If it has been properly labeled as classified, then it should need to go through the proper channels to get it unclassified. One senator shouldn't be able to do that. That should hold true even if it's a first grade type of note asking if you like me (circle 1 if you like me and 2 if you don't)

I would hope that everyone would agree on that

However

After reading a bit more about this one event, it sounds as if he might have been given the proper permission to release it.

Who really knows anymore. There are so many "news" stories and they all seem to contradict each other. It's very frustrating
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       09-07-2018, 8:37 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Why do you continue to make false statements? They do not lock kids up when their parents commit a crime in this country. That is what they did on the border. I find it very dishonest that you are trying to justify that practice. Look, I get it. You think that illegal immigrants are the biggest threat to the country. Say that. Quit trying to mask child abuse by making bad comparisons. It makes you sound extremely dishonest.

There are ways to enforce laws in this country without abusing the most vulnerable.

I will never "be with Trump" with respect to the wall because I think it's a gigantic waste of money. More people are overstaying Visas in the US than we have illegal border crossings.
He clearly said the kids would go with a family member if available or the foster system, which is exactly what happens. They don't go back to their empty house. What exactly do you propose they do with the kids that come over with their parents?
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-07-2018, 10:54 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
I have a feeling Wes is ďtouching himselfĒ during the confirmation hearings
tl;dr... Grant is feeling Wes.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       09-07-2018, 1:52 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ord27 View Post
so.....a senator gets to decide if documents marked classified, are really classified.
This type of thing needs to stop
Everyone, regardless of which way you lean, ought to hope for the expulsion of these clowns from the senate

If they aren't removed, our system has yet again taken another step down the rabbit hole
I agree this stuff needs to stop. you need to understand the background. The documents are not "Classified" they were earmarked "Confidential". The man who is keeping the info from the public is atty, Bill Burck.He has been appointed by the GOP and team trump to decide what senators and the public should be able to see on Kavanaugh. That atty, Burck is currently representing Reince Preibus trumps former chief of staff, Steve Bannon, trumps former Chief Advisor and Don McGaghn, soon to be former white house council in the Meuller investigation. Burck withheld (marked Confidential) over 90% of the documents he reviewed. Democrats are releasing and asking why is this info a matter of national security? It clearly is not a nationl security risk. Why did trumps guy hide all the info on Kav? Trump nominated Kav to insulate him from Mueller. Kav is the only one on Trumps list of 25 SC appointees who believes a sitting president can not be prosecuted, subpoenaed or indicted. The list of potential SC judges was compiled by the Federalist Society and was originally 20 names. Trump agreed to pick ONLY FROM THE LIST. The day after Mueller began his investigation Trump added names to the list. Gee what do you know, when it came time to nominate someone (as trump escorts Kennedy out) Trump picked the one guy on the list of 25 that had these beliefs that the president is teflon. Its Trump/GOP leading us to that rabbit hole.
Old     (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       09-07-2018, 2:12 PM Reply   
I see that now....
Old     (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       09-07-2018, 2:13 PM Reply   
https://www.facebook.com/taylor.mahr...3471811675231/

I'm not sure that this video will post
but

I would vote for this guy 3 times on Friday and 10x on Sunday

He is spot on
Old     (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       09-07-2018, 2:22 PM Reply   
the man is that video is saying what I have been saying for years now.
I'm somewhat comforted knowing that there is at least 1 person in Washington that gets it.

Maybe it will catch on and grow, and we can have our government back

but I seriously doubt it
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       09-07-2018, 3:55 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blamey View Post
Don't put too much stock into my open boarders comment. I do feel like it's a good goal but understand we are no where near it being a good thing.



So I find the economic side of what you say is interesting. Particularly the use of cheap labour for an economic advantage. I'll need to look into this.

From an election perspective, I thought illegals can't vote. California is overwhelmingly democratic. A few illegals and their kids aren't swinging the state through voting. So how are they affecting things. Spreading ideas?



Well I think they want a better life. A job is certainly one of these things. Security (low crime) is another. What are you referring to here?
.
Ok, I get what you are saying on the immigration thing. I don't believe open borders will ever work. You will never have equal cultures. People are different for a reason. At the end of the day if everyone was on exact equal footing, you would be worthless. It is your differences (rarity) that brings value.

California uses cheap labor to enrich the few. Sure, you have a McDonalds on every block. Those places put pressure on normal food supplies making it more expensive for food stores that pass it on to us. Adds more housing requirements, fuel, food, water, traffic, education and so on. They don't really make enough so they end up getting public assistance. People always say people don't have free healthcare. Of course they do. It is called the county hospital . My wife had two surgeries there when she was a teen and young adult. Illegals put massive pressure on the county hospital system. Even force many to close. Regular people don't want the county hospital and what the middle class to pay for their healthcare because they don't like the socialized medicine and slow wait times of the county hospitals. Oh the irony.

I digress. Just as China uses cheap labor to get ahead, California uses cheap labor to get ahead of the rest of the US especially farming. They also get cheap water rights for farmers compared to the rest of the country. In Cali, the farmers use 40%, they flush 40% down the delta for the Smelt, 10% unknown, and 10% is used by the people. Guess who they raised the rates on? The people.

Elections. The state has been passing law after law for years to keep from being able to document illegals. They finally passed drivers license for illegals. Then they passed motor voter. There was just an article this week were 22,000 ballots or registration or something that were sent out illegally?

I get 2 write in ballots and am on the vote in person roster 2 times. One because I registered online and another due to the motor voter registration. I figured because I moved that I would need to re-register. Now I could easily vote twice (maybe even 4 with the mail in ballots). I have them mark out my second name every time I do to vote. Trust me. Illegals are voting. Even if the illegals are not voting, their children are voting wtihin 2 decades. Also because the state does not mark a person as illegal or not on the rosters, when census time rolls around, they get to count the illegals in the total population. Guess what, they assign House of Repsentatives and Electoral votes based on population. Add 11 million more people in primarily democrat states and there is goes. Look at Florida and other swing states. All it took was few dozen votes and Gore would have been president. It is not about how many but where are the votes. Remember Kennedy against Nixon. Chicago came in very late and just happened to find enough votes to give the whole countries election to Kennedy.

Of course many of these folks want a better life. What happens when their kids don't get a better life and tend to live in the war zones of the big cities? They just add to the issue, in the mean time the middle class gets hit the hardest in every aspect. You can blame the rich people but they already pay 90% of the taxes. Will getting a 100% do anything? They can already buy their way out of it where the middle class can't.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       09-07-2018, 4:11 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Why do you continue to make false statements? They do not lock kids up when their parents commit a crime in this country. That is what they did on the border. I find it very dishonest that you are trying to justify that practice. Look, I get it. You think that illegal immigrants are the biggest threat to the country. Say that. Quit trying to mask child abuse by making bad comparisons. It makes you sound extremely dishonest.

There are ways to enforce laws in this country without abusing the most vulnerable.

I will never "be with Trump" with respect to the wall because I think it's a gigantic waste of money. More people are overstaying Visas in the US than we have illegal border crossings.
Do you believe that children who are sent here with human trafficers should remain with those trafficers? That is mostly what is happening but I guess you are leaving that out of your process. Where do those children go? How do you prove that the children do belong with the adults? Do you know how to do it?

What do you do with the child at that point? You absolutely can not set it free. What do you do? You know what the answer is but your politics or brain in general will not be honest. You do exactly what we do now. Just like if you go to jail and their is no one to take your kids. They get sent off. Lucky for your children, they at least are citizens so they are the responsibility of me and my fellow Americans. The foreign children are not. They are the responsibility of the Mexican government (or where ever they are from). End of story. Remember the Cuban boy? Clinton took him by gun point because he was not a citizen and the Cuban government wanted him back.

At the end of the day, economics does not work on feelings. You and I can not afford to pay for everyone who does not contribute especially when we have to pay in for a lifetime to get our security blanket. It is a closed loop economic system that is not primarily a unskilled labor country anymore. You just can not take everyone from any place.

The real irony is this. You complain that the government is too heavy handed in these matters, but you want the government to take over more and more of your life. guess what genius. Every freaking time in history when a government gets power over the people, the people always suffer greatly.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-07-2018, 7:36 PM Reply   
"All it took was few dozen votes and Gore would have been president."

Yeah, it would have been a shame if we didn't invade Iraq.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-07-2018, 10:21 PM Reply   
Ord: Facebook videos and links ??? seriously come on! Facebook is 10x worse then Breitbart
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       09-08-2018, 6:03 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Do you believe that children who are sent here with human trafficers should remain with those trafficers? That is mostly what is happening but I guess you are leaving that out of your process. Where do those children go? How do you prove that the children do belong with the adults? Do you know how to do it?

What do you do with the child at that point? You absolutely can not set it free. What do you do? You know what the answer is but your politics or brain in general will not be honest. You do exactly what we do now. Just like if you go to jail and their is no one to take your kids. They get sent off. Lucky for your children, they at least are citizens so they are the responsibility of me and my fellow Americans. The foreign children are not. They are the responsibility of the Mexican government (or where ever they are from). End of story. Remember the Cuban boy? Clinton took him by gun point because he was not a citizen and the Cuban government wanted him back.

At the end of the day, economics does not work on feelings. You and I can not afford to pay for everyone who does not contribute especially when we have to pay in for a lifetime to get our security blanket. It is a closed loop economic system that is not primarily a unskilled labor country anymore. You just can not take everyone from any place.

The real irony is this. You complain that the government is too heavy handed in these matters, but you want the government to take over more and more of your life. guess what genius. Every freaking time in history when a government gets power over the people, the people always suffer greatly.
Why do you (and mostly ever other Republican) equate being against Trump's border wall and how they handled things at the border to being pro-open borders? I notice you didn't take the time to address what I said about immigrants overstaying Visas now outnumbers illegal border crossings.

And why do you think I "want the government to take over more and more of my life"? Have I ever said that? I will guarantee you (and other Republicans) feel you need the government in your life than me. You guys want the government to be able to shove Christianity down our throats. You want the government to interfere with a woman's choice to elect to have a legal medical procedure. You want the government to be able to tell other tax-paying citizens they don't deserve the same rights that you enjoy. You want the government to be able to decide which companies succeed and those that fail.

Did you make up the lines that I bolded? Because everything I have read suggests that is not accurate whatsoever.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       09-08-2018, 6:13 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by ord27 View Post
wake
for me, it doesn't matter what is in the document. If it has been properly labeled as classified, then it should need to go through the proper channels to get it unclassified. One senator shouldn't be able to do that. That should hold true even if it's a first grade type of note asking if you like me (circle 1 if you like me and 2 if you don't)

I would hope that everyone would agree on that

However

After reading a bit more about this one event, it sounds as if he might have been given the proper permission to release it.

Who really knows anymore. There are so many "news" stories and they all seem to contradict each other. It's very frustrating
My point was, that document should have never been marked Confidential to begin. I would think that Senator Booker probably tried to go "through the proper channels", but look who controlled the passage way.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       09-08-2018, 8:55 AM Reply   
[QUOTE=wake77

You guys want the government to be able to shove Christianity down our throats. You want the government to interfere with a woman's choice to elect to have a legal medical procedure. You want the government to be able to tell other tax-paying citizens they don't deserve the same rights that you enjoy. You want the government to be able to decide which companies succeed and those that fail.

Please keep saying these tired old lies and or distortions. Itís what helps us win elections.
Old     (ord27)      Join Date: Oct 2005       09-08-2018, 10:33 AM Reply   
grant
I agree that facebook isn't a credible news source, but that doesn't alter what this senator was saying
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-08-2018, 11:10 AM Reply   
Obozo come out from under his circus tent to grace us with his wisdom. This guy is such a windbag. Barry, donít you have a book to write or a amazon series to direct? I think your Nobel Peace prise is hanging tilted on your wall how about u go fix it. The part where obozo says the current admin has a ďsilent restanceĒ people working In the WH to create turmoil, ďUM no kiddingĒ. Newt Gingrich said it the other day. These loony libs keep saying TRUMP is deranged ect, This so called ďDerangedĒ president has the economy & the stock market, the job market & the lowest un employment ever, and the list goís on, Question ďwhat would the US be like with a so called ďNON deranged TRUMPĒ

Obozos greatest achievement Gender Neutral bathrooms. Finally chicks with dicks can pee sitting down in government buildings great job Barry, in all seriousness Iím being hard on Obozo what can you expect when you elect a ďcommunity organizerĒ to the highest position in the nation. I saw a bumper sticker that said . When you elect clowns, expect a circus.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by grant_west; 09-08-2018 at 11:17 AM.
Old     (Blamey)      Join Date: Apr 2016       09-08-2018, 12:15 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Obozo come out from under his circus tent to grace us with his wisdom. This guy is such a windbag. Barry, donít you have a book to write or a amazon series to direct? I think your Nobel Peace prise is hanging tilted on your wall how about u go fix it. The part where obozo says the current admin has a ďsilent restanceĒ people working In the WH to create turmoil, ďUM no kiddingĒ. Newt Gingrich said it the other day. These loony libs keep saying TRUMP is deranged ect, This so called ďDerangedĒ president has the economy & the stock market, the job market & the lowest un employment ever, and the list goís on, Question ďwhat would the US be like with a so called ďNON deranged TRUMPĒ

Obozos greatest achievement Gender Neutral bathrooms. Finally chicks with dicks can pee sitting down in government buildings great job Barry, in all seriousness Iím being hard on Obozo what can you expect when you elect a ďcommunity organizerĒ to the highest position in the nation. I saw a bumper sticker that said . When you elect clowns, expect a circus.
Grant, you are so under informed it's just annoying. Please give up on this. At least some of the other posters here are making somewhat informed descisions. I disagree with what they think but at let's they are thinking. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. I don't know where you get your information from but you need to try harder. There are opinions and there are facts. We can disagree on opinions but when you can't even vet the facts you make your decisiobs on, well then you are a liability for this country. Regrdless if who's side you fall on. Delta and Ord at least ****ing try, not everything that they believe is right but at least 90% of what they say isn't just straight up propaganda. I try to, that's why I look at conservative media(which is ****ing hard because there is almost zero conservative jornalism). That why I come here and listen to people I disagree with. I know I am wrong and misinformed on alot but I try and get better, I vet what I here and try get the real picture not just the sound bite. I try and understand.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       09-09-2018, 6:25 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blamey View Post
Grant, you are so under informed it's just annoying. Please give up on this. At least some of the other posters here are making somewhat informed descisions.
On the one hand, I agree with this. I'd love for this thread to turn into a real debate on policy.

And on the other I really think you are missing the point. Trump's "geenyis" is that he gives voice to the Grants of the USA. G is Trump's base, and he is one of the people who forgives every scandal, who believes everything Trump says (even when it's 180* from a prior position), and who loves that Trump is as uninformed as he is. I mean fer real... trump is rich and he doesn't engage in all of that pointy headed ivory tower b.s., so it must be superfluous.

Try to take advantage of understanding a real live Trump supporter. You are not going to win him over with reason and you are not going to have a legit policy debate, but you are going to get an understanding where he is coming from.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       09-09-2018, 8:34 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
On the one hand, I agree with this. I'd love for this thread to turn into a real debate on policy.

And on the other I really think you are missing the point. Trump's "geenyis" is that he gives voice to the Grants of the USA. G is Trump's base, and he is one of the people who forgives every scandal, who believes everything Trump says (even when it's 180* from a prior position), and who loves that Trump is as uninformed as he is. I mean fer real... trump is rich and he doesn't engage in all of that pointy headed ivory tower b.s., so it must be superfluous.

Try to take advantage of understanding a real live Trump supporter. You are not going to win him over with reason and you are not going to have a legit policy debate, but you are going to get an understanding where he is coming from.
Seriously? Could you be more condescending? I mean... how are your farts smelling this morning? Keep it up and watch us win another election cycle. You guys are so arrogant that you STILL donít realize why you got left in the dust last time.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-09-2018, 9:30 AM Reply   
What can I say? We all are just a bunch of deplorable’s
Old     (Blamey)      Join Date: Apr 2016       09-09-2018, 9:34 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
On the one hand, I agree with this. I'd love for this thread to turn into a real debate on policy.

And on the other I really think you are missing the point. Trump's "geenyis" is that he gives voice to the Grants of the USA. G is Trump's base, and he is one of the people who forgives every scandal, who believes everything Trump says (even when it's 180* from a prior position), and who loves that Trump is as uninformed as he is. I mean fer real... trump is rich and he doesn't engage in all of that pointy headed ivory tower b.s., so it must be superfluous.

Try to take advantage of understanding a real live Trump supporter. You are not going to win him over with reason and you are not going to have a legit policy debate, but you are going to get an understanding where he is coming from.
Oh I understand. Trump won by appealing to the under educated and under informed. Once controlling for everything else, that's where Tump picked up most of his votes vs the previous two elections.

Do I think calling Grant out will making him a liberal, no.

Do I think advocating for people to be better informed will improve politics in this country, yes. We all need to do a better job of educating ourselve

Last edited by Blamey; 09-09-2018 at 9:37 AM.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-09-2018, 10:48 AM Reply   
Blimey: you kind of late to the party, if you think open informed discussion is going on in here then your sadly mistaken. This is a Loony Lib circle jeark. Any consertivite views are quickly gang banged by the local Loons. I don’t come here to debate I just come here to kick the local loons and laugh and move on. It’s a guilty pleaser I think I need to go to Anti loon bashing rehab. It’s just so fun, I can’t stop.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-09-2018, 10:49 AM Reply   
Blamey: you kind of late to the party, if you think open informed discussion is going on in here then your sadly mistaken. This is a Loony Lib circle jeark. Any consertivite views are quickly gang banged by the local Loons. I donít come here to debate I just come here to kick the local loons and laugh and move on. Itís a guilty pleaser I think I need to go to Anti loon bashing rehab. Itís just so fun, I canít stop.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       09-09-2018, 11:49 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blamey View Post
Oh I understand. Trump won by appealing to the under educated and under informed. Once controlling for everything else, that's where Tump picked up most of his votes vs the previous two elections.

Do I think calling Grant out will making him a liberal, no.

Do I think advocating for people to be better informed will improve politics in this country, yes. We all need to do a better job of educating ourselve
I BEG you to keep that same line of thinking going. Itís exactly what preceded the last election cycle.
Old     (Blamey)      Join Date: Apr 2016       09-09-2018, 12:16 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Blimey: you kind of late to the party, if you think open informed discussion is going on in here then your sadly mistaken. This is a Loony Lib circle jeark. Any consertivite views are quickly gang banged by the local Loons. I donít come here to debate I just come here to kick the local loons and laugh and move on. Itís a guilty pleaser I think I need to go to Anti loon bashing rehab. Itís just so fun, I canít stop.
Nope, both Ord and Delta have provided good we'll thought out reasoning behind their responses. I have asked questions and they have provided good details. I have learnt from them I understand this I may have previously overlooked.
Old     (denverd1)      Join Date: May 2004       09-09-2018, 12:40 PM Reply   
yea, under informed dumbasses, the whole lot of us. I would have voted for a ****ing cat, just to keep Hillary's ass out of office. Trump works.
Old     (Blamey)      Join Date: Apr 2016       09-09-2018, 1:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
I BEG you to keep that same line of thinking going. Itís exactly what preceded the last election cycle.
Really it's the opposite that's true. Not understanding this is why the democratics lost in the last election cycle.

Unfortunately politics is about winning and part of that is appealing to the lowest common denominator. The Republicans did that better last time round and it won't them the election.

I don't think encouraging you to be better informed will make you a liberal. I feel like it will make you a more informed conservative. One that makes there decision based on facts.

Markj, show prove me wrong. Both you and Grant prove me right by showing up here and making claims that are either opinions or just bull**** proving my point that you have no interest in understand your opinions.
Old     (Blamey)      Join Date: Apr 2016       09-09-2018, 1:12 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd1 View Post
yea, under informed dumbasses, the whole lot of us. I would have voted for a ****ing cat, just to keep Hillary's ass out of office. Trump works.
My point exactly.
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       09-09-2018, 7:25 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Blimey: you kind of late to the party, if you think open informed discussion is going on in here then your sadly mistaken. This is a Loony Lib circle jeark. Any consertivite views are quickly gang banged by the local Loons. I donít come here to debate I just come here to kick the local loons and laugh and move on. Itís a guilty pleaser I think I need to go to Anti loon bashing rehab. Itís just so fun, I canít stop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
Blamey: you kind of late to the party, if you think open informed discussion is going on in here then your sadly mistaken. This is a Loony Lib circle jeark. Any consertivite views are quickly gang banged by the local Loons. I donít come here to debate I just come here to kick the local loons and laugh and move on. Itís a guilty pleaser I think I need to go to Anti loon bashing rehab. Itís just so fun, I canít stop.
Does anyone else find it crazy that grant double-posted just because he misspelled "Blamey" (but didn't correct any of the other mistakes)?
Old     (Blamey)      Join Date: Apr 2016       09-09-2018, 7:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Does anyone else find it crazy that grant double-posted just because he misspelled "Blamey" (but didn't correct any of the other mistakes)?
I appreciated it.
Old     (markj)      Join Date: Apr 2005       09-09-2018, 7:37 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
Does anyone else find it crazy that grant double-posted just because he misspelled "Blamey" (but didn't correct any of the other mistakes)?
I was gonna say the same thing about one of Blameyís posts, but realized I had a life. Dude. Get out of your momís basement quick.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       09-09-2018, 9:38 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by markj View Post
Seriously? Could you be more condescending? I mean... how are your farts smelling this morning? Keep it up and watch us win another election cycle. You guys are so arrogant that you STILL donít realize why you got left in the dust last time.
Oh believe me I understand the hubris of 16. That's why I like listening to you guys. It's your farts I'm sniffing on this thread. Please keep them coming.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-09-2018, 10:09 PM Reply   
LoL I think is hell a funny you even care. I seriously like the fact you loons get pissed at grammar and spelling mistakes I make. I love to kick and trigger you loons. Blamey sorry, you don’t seem like a typical d bag like Fake77 or the other loons here so I guess that’s why I try tried to correct things.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       09-10-2018, 7:04 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant_west View Post
LoL I think is hell a funny you even care. I seriously like the fact you loons get pissed at grammar and spelling mistakes I make. I love to kick and trigger you loons. Blamey sorry, you donít seem like a typical d bag like Fake77 or the other loons here so I guess thatís why I try tried to correct things.
G no worries man. I like to hear what you are thinking, believe it or not. I do wish we could get past some of the middle school insults sometimes, because I'd like to know what you actually think about some of this stuff.
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       09-10-2018, 7:34 AM Reply   
Ignoring all the slamming back and forth, how can anyone not be afraid of Socialism. The democrats are off the deep end. Lets all agree to disagree and verbally express our opinions, but I hope we can all agree that socialism is not the answer. This is what we are going to get if we allow this socialistic push to keep moving forward.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       09-10-2018, 7:37 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
Ignoring all the slamming back and forth, how can anyone not be afraid of Socialism. The democrats are off the deep end. Lets all agree to disagree and verbally express our opinions, but I hope we can all agree that socialism is not the answer. This is what we are going to get if we allow this socialistic push to keep moving forward.


Which dems are off the deep end? All of them?

What parts of socialism scare you? Social security, Medicare, free education?
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-10-2018, 8:17 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
What parts of socialism scare you?
I think they are going after K-12 next. Six is old enough to learn the virtues of Capitalism, do the Lord's work, and bring home a paycheck.
Old     (plhorn)      Join Date: Dec 2005       09-10-2018, 9:12 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Which dems are off the deep end? All of them?

What parts of socialism scare you? Social security, Medicare, free education?
Don't forget about the horrible socialist institutions of the fire department, police force, and library?

Oh and how dare the Socialist agenda EPA try to take our rights to poison the air and water!

Maybe we can't agree that socialism is all bad... Like everything in life moderation is key.
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       09-10-2018, 9:23 AM Reply   
Government spending and socialism are not the same thing.
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       09-10-2018, 5:18 PM Reply   
deciding to fund something, and being forced to fund something is what we are facing. I am paying for college for my children. 1 time, don't want to fund everyones college for the rest of my life, I have no issue funding medicaid, I do have an issue paying for someones sex change. I don't have an issue taking care of our Vets, do have a problem funding the employable that find food stamps, free housing, and welfare a better way of life.

How about this, live to your means, you don't make it, you don't get it. Very simple! If you pick a profession thats low income, thats your choice, live to the standard you choose, all these issues go away. lets get people to maintain employment, then we can worry about the air and water. BTW china will destroy it 10x over before we make a blip on the map regarding clean air or water. I think we can fix those issues once we get people out of the system.

Lets get basic core values back, teach your children respect. Teach people around you to grow up, its on you to make it, take ownership. sh@ts not free! IF you blow it as a parent, its on you too! You have a responsibility to the children you made, not me! If you cant afford to have them, then don't. Really simple stuff. Also, its easy, if you F@ck up your life, get 2 jobs, double down, dig out, the KFC is hiring for 15 bucks an hour.
Old     (deuce)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-10-2018, 6:28 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
deciding to fund something, and being forced to fund something is what we are facing. I am paying for college for my children. 1 time, don't want to fund everyones college for the rest of my life, I have no issue funding medicaid, I do have an issue paying for someones sex change. I don't have an issue taking care of our Vets, do have a problem funding the employable that find food stamps, free housing, and welfare a better way of life.

How about this, live to your means, you don't make it, you don't get it. Very simple! If you pick a profession thats low income, thats your choice, live to the standard you choose, all these issues go away. lets get people to maintain employment, then we can worry about the air and water. BTW china will destroy it 10x over before we make a blip on the map regarding clean air or water. I think we can fix those issues once we get people out of the system.

Lets get basic core values back, teach your children respect. Teach people around you to grow up, its on you to make it, take ownership. sh@ts not free! IF you blow it as a parent, its on you too! You have a responsibility to the children you made, not me! If you cant afford to have them, then don't. Really simple stuff. Also, its easy, if you F@ck up your life, get 2 jobs, double down, dig out, the KFC is hiring for 15 bucks an hour.
Most would consider me fairly liberal. I donít have a problem with most of what you said. I do think we act now on the environment, regardless of what is happening beyond our borders.
Old     (deuce)      Join Date: Mar 2002       09-10-2018, 6:32 PM Reply   
I have yet to talk with someone who wanted to pay for room, board & insurance for everyone who just doesn’t want to work.
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       09-10-2018, 6:59 PM Reply   
I want clean water, clean air, a healthy place for my family, but i cant see a fix to the problem until we get people stable. Burning coal may be bad, but selling it to 3rd world countries for pennies on the dollar so they can burn it without any clean protocol at all does not fix the problem.

also, if people want open boarders, then they should be foster parents to those who come in illegally. Simple fix, you house them, feed them, teach them english, get them a green card, get the employment just like children. be responsible for their actions until you get them to a stable member of our society. The Dem's say there are very few coming in, OK so take them in under your roof. We are responsible for our children actions. As far as I am concerned, they are children until they prove they are competent. Why should we pay for them? They come legally, fine, great, illegally, not my circus, not my monkeys.

Its amazing how people will find a way when forced to , amazing how people will skate the system when allowed to. I am sure that 99% of the people on this forum are hard working, caring, loving providers for there community, family etc etc. my argument is simple stop supporting the non supporter. Those who want to skate through life. Free has no value. Free builds no value. there is no skin in the game. Its trophies for all the players win or lose. thats not reality.

is the posts prior, firefighters risk their lives, thats payment, police risk their lives, thats payment, vets risk their lives, thats payment. no one will argue that. We pay because they serve. Its earned, and usually paid too little. Its an agreement to the cause, one that a lot would never do. Its not socialism.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       09-10-2018, 7:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
is the posts prior, firefighters risk their lives, thats payment, police risk their lives, thats payment, vets risk their lives, thats payment. no one will argue that. We pay because they serve. Its earned, and usually paid too little. Its an agreement to the cause, one that a lot would never do. Its not socialism.
I think you are confusing some liberal political positions for socialism.

police and fire are socialist institutions. We tax the many and use those tax proceeds to benefit everyone, regardless of their tax contributions. We spread the wealth around to pay firemen and policemen and teachers.

Yes, there is nobility in their service. That doesn't make the institutions not socialist.

Case in point... I have a lot of respect for doctors too. They make all sorts of sacrifices to get into and complete medical school and then receive specialized residency training. Then they work long hard hours. How's about we form a government agency that pays all of them and they render service to all regardless of ability to pay?

Or hows about we privatize police and fire service, so the cops or FD only come when you call if you pay them $295 for the service visit (more on nights, weekends, and holidays). But you can open your own FD if you want, and undercut the competition.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-10-2018, 7:45 PM Reply   
Please Goverment take care of me I canít fend for my self. I wanna drive a forklift for a living or work at Mc Donaldís and support a family of 5 and complain I canít make ends meet and then cry raceizizm. Hey dumb A$$ mother trucker buy a condom.Ē If you canít feed them donít breed themĒ
I know it sounds revolutionary to you dumb ass libs
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       09-10-2018, 8:33 PM Reply   
we do have private police forces, private fire departments. actually, i have never had a tax based fire department. all donation based. Also, there are many secondary, community funded (non federal) police forces. Also, I pay school tax on my property, I don't pay social fees for teachers. I pay according to the property purchased. I have a Choice. I decide where i live, what I pay. Buy more land, pay more tax base. I don't have to pay the same rate if I decide to buy a smaller home, less property.

We actually do not spread the wealth around. We set wages based on standards set by the people who live in the communities that pay the tax base. Hence police officers may make more than school teachers (in some areas) some make less. They are not paid equally. They are also subject to changes in the community they serve. Taxes go's down, incomes go down, or may stay depending on the circumstance. One school district may pay more than another, this is based on the tax base, not the socialized governing body.

doctors are private practice, group, federal employees etc etc. I work in the medical field, have a very vast knowledge of the VA, the large PPO, the HMO systems and the contracts agreed on by the Doctor, THEY DECIDE, the fed does not. They agree to the terms of payment, or they don't take the job! Its a choice, socialism is not a choice, its a ruling. Its a set standard by the government, not the people. WE THE PEOPLE decide. There is no WE THE PEOPLE in socialism.

We do pay more for second shift police, weekend hours, double time even triple time. WE the people of the community decide that the need to have police and fire work weekends, nights earn a higher wage. Funny how this works. Want to work midnight shift, make a few extra bucks. Its not suppose to be equal. socialism is one step to communism. It just sounds better. I don't want equal, I want people to want to earn more work to achieve. I don't want the police officer take the midnight shift so he or she can sleep in his car. I Want them to get paid more, so they are willing to catch the possible illegal immigrant trying to break into my house. I want the officer who wants to direct traffic, direct traffic, and that ok, we need both, but there is a difference and deserve to paid differently.

Lets not pay the doctors the same and make sure the ones who care, perform ,and make a difference, get rewarded. Shawdoggy, i will let you go to the doctor who is under the government thumb. Maybe when someone breaks their leg in 5 pieces wake boarding, they will decide to cut it off instead of trying to save it. Better for the government budget. Problem solved, no more leg

My very good friends wife is foreign. Every root canal in her mouth has only the infected root treated, They are all still infected, all falling out, half @ssed socialistic health care. Also, a lot of basic health care may be covered under a socialistic government, but just basic, All other non covered services are total fee for service. I work for a European company. They send patients to the USA all the time to get coverage that they cannot get or cannot afford. So before you get on your pulpit about health care, you may find that a lot of the free health is not free and the time to get it may render you dead by the time someone can "care" for you
Old     (brettw)      Join Date: Jul 2007       09-10-2018, 8:41 PM Reply   
You Trumpsters better pray that liberals never gain control of the WH again because we are going to pay you back so ****ing hard for all of this ****. Planned Parenthoods on every damn corner. We're going to repaint Air Force One, pussy hat pink and fly it over your beloved Bible Belt 6 days a week, tossing birth control pills, condoms, and atheist literature from the cockpit. We're going to tax your mega churches so bad Joel Olsteen will need to get a job at Chik Fil A to pay his light bill. Speaking of Chik Fil A, we're buying all those and giving them to any LGBTQ you sick cult leaders tortured with conversion therapy. Have fun with your new menu you bigoted ****s. Try the McPence. It's a boiled, unseasoned chicken breast that you have to eat in the closet with your mother. ALL parks will be renamed Rosa Parks asap. We're replacing Confederate statues with BLM leaders and Mexican immigrants. Every single public school will be renamed after a child that was kidnapped by this regime. And after we fumigate the WH, we're repainting the whole thing rainbow. Fox News will be taken over and turned into a family refugee shelter. We're turning Hannity's office into a giant unisex bathroom with changing tables and free tampons. And every single time a Trumpster complains about any of the changes, we're adding an openly gay character to a Disney movie.

This has been going around a bit so sorry if you've seen it already. You gotta admit if's funny.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       09-10-2018, 9:13 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougr View Post
we do have private police forces, private fire departments. actually, i have never had a tax based fire department. all donation based. Also, there are many secondary, community funded (non federal) police forces. Also, I pay school tax on my property, I don't pay social fees for teachers. I pay according to the property purchased. I have a Choice. I decide where i live, what I pay. Buy more land, pay more tax base. I don't have to pay the same rate if I decide to buy a smaller home, less property.

We actually do not spread the wealth around. We set wages based on standards set by the people who live in the communities that pay the tax base. Hence police officers may make more than school teachers (in some areas) some make less. They are not paid equally. They are also subject to changes in the community they serve. Taxes go's down, incomes go down, or may stay depending on the circumstance. One school district may pay more than another, this is based on the tax base, not the socialized governing body.

doctors are private practice, group, federal employees etc etc. I work in the medical field, have a very vast knowledge of the VA, the large PPO, the HMO systems and the contracts agreed on by the Doctor, THEY DECIDE, the fed does not. They agree to the terms of payment, or they don't take the job! Its a choice, socialism is not a choice, its a ruling. Its a set standard by the government, not the people. WE THE PEOPLE decide. There is no WE THE PEOPLE in socialism.

We do pay more for second shift police, weekend hours, double time even triple time. WE the people of the community decide that the need to have police and fire work weekends, nights earn a higher wage. Funny how this works. Want to work midnight shift, make a few extra bucks. Its not suppose to be equal. socialism is one step to communism. It just sounds better. I don't want equal, I want people to want to earn more work to achieve. I don't want the police officer take the midnight shift so he or she can sleep in his car. I Want them to get paid more, so they are willing to catch the possible illegal immigrant trying to break into my house. I want the officer who wants to direct traffic, direct traffic, and that ok, we need both, but there is a difference and deserve to paid differently.

Lets not pay the doctors the same and make sure the ones who care, perform ,and make a difference, get rewarded. Shawdoggy, i will let you go to the doctor who is under the government thumb. Maybe when someone breaks their leg in 5 pieces wake boarding, they will decide to cut it off instead of trying to save it. Better for the government budget. Problem solved, no more leg

My very good friends wife is foreign. Every root canal in her mouth has only the infected root treated, They are all still infected, all falling out, half @ssed socialistic health care. Also, a lot of basic health care may be covered under a socialistic government, but just basic, All other non covered services are total fee for service. I work for a European company. They send patients to the USA all the time to get coverage that they cannot get or cannot afford. So before you get on your pulpit about health care, you may find that a lot of the free health is not free and the time to get it may render you dead by the time someone can "care" for you
So if your state or county hired all of the doctors and paid them via property taxes that wouldn't be socialism?

You are saying that the defining characteristic of socialism is raising taxes via income tax?
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       09-10-2018, 9:35 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by brettw View Post
This has been going around a bit so sorry if you've seen it already. You gotta admit if's funny.
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       09-11-2018, 5:26 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
So if your state or county hired all of the doctors and paid them via property taxes that wouldn't be socialism?

You are saying that the defining characteristic of socialism is raising taxes via income tax?
The state could offer to hire ALL THE DOCTORS, but they wouldn't because they have a choice. YES, grasshopper a choice. Socialism takes choices away, limits your ability to decide whats best for you!. They do this because fixing the problem, means fixing the people. its too difficult to get a % of the people to act like people, be responsible , so they blanket rules and laws to control the outcome. Very simple, some people just cannot be responsible. Some people cannot act like mature adults. They cant take responsibility of their actions. The socialist government gets tired, and adds a new law, new rule. They decide your outcome. Give them more, they take more. They don't want to fight moral or ethical issue, they just want to get rid of the problem, but they cant, so they limit. just like we do with our children.

They cant make smart decisions (children), they are too immature, we either limit their options or make decisions for them until they are educated and mature enough to make them on their own. Something all parents hope and pray for their children.

No one wants someone to lose a child, have an abortion, Its sad. we want those people to be responsible, but we just cant always have responsibility. Everyone is a child of someone, i am sure most Gay men and women don't want or need to pee in the opposite sex bathroom, but some are just too immature to accept their decision to change their sex and cannot get past the fact that its ok, just go pee with in the mens room. WE KNOW they are not women or man.

These conversations should never have to happen. But when the democrats establishment is not working, they need more, more extreme, lets become socialists. Lets promise something for nothing, sounds good to the young, the indigent, the poor, the needy. But its short lived. They don't change, they don't grow, they don't strive to get out of poverty. They bread in it. Grow it, make it a way of life.

We have people living in very sad, poor, dangerous areas, but some just love it. they don't try to get out. While we have illegals flooding the boarder to get out, why not focus our time and effort fixing those who need to flee in our country first. Lets help those people, lets get them into a safe environment. Just like parents, they first take care of their own children before they can take care of the neighbors. Really simple stuff
Old     (dougr)      Join Date: Dec 2009       09-11-2018, 5:36 AM Reply   
heres the other thing, I am not against brith control, if you don't plan on having a child, you should use it. But if you cant afford the possible outcome, A CHILD, you should not do it. Now i know thats very hard, so either parents get their children on birth control and aware of the consequences or we continue to see the large majority of abortions be young adults. I have 2 girls, one in college, on in preschool. Love them both to death! They both will have their own options, but they both will be responsible for their actions and future actions. Lets all start taking responsibility and stop making it the governments responsibility.
Old     (grant_west)      Join Date: Jun 2005       09-11-2018, 7:50 AM Reply   
^^^Exactley
Why is it the government should be responsible for a persons poor life choices. Example guy or girl decides to not go to collage, so they canít get a great high wage job, and both have limited skills then for what ever reason they decided to have kids. They can barley afford 1 kid but they end up With 3. Now itís the governments fault they canít afford (insert what ever) I donít know it seems pretty simple to me. Follow some simple life rules. Go to school, get a good job or careeer, gain a skil or a trade, Donít have kids until your married and in a stable relationship & or can afford them, A couple living together both earning a decent wage can live comfortable even in expensive regions. We keep rewarding or glorifying Single motherhood/ parenthood . Example how many times do you hear people saying o what a strong woman raising kids on her own. Pffffft! Pallleeeze! Why are we not hearing people say things like Wow look at this! A married couple who is financially responsible. Who stayed together long enough to decide that they should and could have children.How come we donít call a spade a spade, Example how come they donít say it out loud. You wanna be poor and unhappy Have kids out of wedlock in a unstable relationship, donít go to school or gain a trade. Work a minimum wage job, and they Complain life is not fare and the government needs to do more to take care of you, Now of course this is just my opinion and what do I know!
Old     (psudy)      Join Date: Dec 2003       09-11-2018, 8:03 AM Reply   
Because the federal government is the highest public authority and charged with the duty (US Constitution, Article 1, Section 8) to issue US Dollars, it must issue currency with the intent of serving the needs of the public in its entirety, not just a few private individuals and entities. The US Dollar is public “money”; the sole product of the federal government and must be issued for the public purpose. What then is the public purpose? That which benefits the entire nation.

1.) The provisioning of the federal government with goods and services, ensuring that it can properly function for the benefit of the nation.

2.) Military spending for defense of the nation.

3.) Infrastructure – transportation, railways, airports, roads and highways, bridges, power grids and energy resources, hospitals, buildings and ports.

4.) Indefinite full employment which allows for perpetual economic stability, ensuring that whatever the United States produces can be purchased by consumers.

The US government – A public entity. US Dollars – Public currency. All US citizens – The public.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       09-11-2018, 11:35 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blamey View Post
Oh I understand. Trump won by appealing to the under educated and under informed. Once controlling for everything else, that's where Tump picked up most of his votes vs the previous two elections.

Do I think calling Grant out will making him a liberal, no.

Do I think advocating for people to be better informed will improve politics in this country, yes. We all need to do a better job of educating ourselve
Yep. This is the typical Clinton reaction too. Anyone who is not a democrat is under educated and under informed. I find city people to be the most ignorant people I have ever been around. They tend to have extremely limited physical skills, even less social skills, and do not know geography at all.

They tend to sit in an echo chamber and tell each other the same things over an over and develop a sense self importance. My personal theory is that city people see how utterly unprepared most of their fellow dwellers are that ones who are not part of the city must be off the chains ignorant. I mean they have to be completely stupid because we all know that only city people get exposed to education and most of them are completely stupid, so country people must be able to barely put the fork to their mouth by comparison.

As someone who has to recruit technical folks, I have found the most prepared in skill and socially able to adapt are country kids. Understand mechanical and electrical systems, tend to be very mature due to them basically being raised around a business and have to actually rely on other people for survival. We have to recruit kids from thousands of miles away because the "city" kids are not prepared or even willing to work. Some with silicon valley. You wonder why they use so many people who are basically straight off the boat?

Some of the later generational people that really know there stuff are people who went to school in single room grade schools. The older children had to help teach the young and the young did not grow up entitled. Heck, my high school in Indiana has better facilities that the colleges around California has. Heck even our gym is as big as Stanford's gym. Education was way better than the garbage my kids had to go to out here. City people are smart my butt.

Funny thing is city people think because they have all the money that they some how have some sort of moral and intellectual ability. Country people have all the food and water. It is a small amount of time from the time that you have all the food and water, that you will have all the money. The country people cut the highways around the city, you would turn into a 6th world country in about 1 week. You would eat each other alive like animals.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-11-2018, 12:37 PM Reply   
^And all of that is supported by the fact that so much of today's technology came from the fly-over states.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       09-11-2018, 1:34 PM Reply   
Delta so glad you are back. Excellent points.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       09-11-2018, 1:37 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
^And all of that is supported by the fact that so much of today's technology came from the fly-over states.

Nah I think Deltas argument is a good one. There is a lot of cheap rural labor being exploited / taken for granted.

In another time those people might have banded together and risen up against the bourgeoisie.
Old     (Blamey)      Join Date: Apr 2016       09-11-2018, 7:09 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Yep. This is the typical Clinton reaction too. Anyone who is not a democrat is under educated and under informed. I find city people to be the most ignorant people I have ever been around. They tend to have extremely limited physical skills, even less social skills, and do not know geography at all.

They tend to sit in an echo chamber and tell each other the same things over an over and develop a sense self importance. My personal theory is that city people see how utterly unprepared most of their fellow dwellers are that ones who are not part of the city must be off the chains ignorant. I mean they have to be completely stupid because we all know that only city people get exposed to education and most of them are completely stupid, so country people must be able to barely put the fork to their mouth by comparison.

As someone who has to recruit technical folks, I have found the most prepared in skill and socially able to adapt are country kids. Understand mechanical and electrical systems, tend to be very mature due to them basically being raised around a business and have to actually rely on other people for survival. We have to recruit kids from thousands of miles away because the "city" kids are not prepared or even willing to work. Some with silicon valley. You wonder why they use so many people who are basically straight off the boat?

Some of the later generational people that really know there stuff are people who went to school in single room grade schools. The older children had to help teach the young and the young did not grow up entitled. Heck, my high school in Indiana has better facilities that the colleges around California has. Heck even our gym is as big as Stanford's gym. Education was way better than the garbage my kids had to go to out here. City people are smart my butt.

Funny thing is city people think because they have all the money that they some how have some sort of moral and intellectual ability. Country people have all the food and water. It is a small amount of time from the time that you have all the food and water, that you will have all the money. The country people cut the highways around the city, you would turn into a 6th world country in about 1 week. You would eat each other alive like animals.
Delta, you completely missed my point. I said that by every demographic (at least the ones that I can find) Trump won by appealing to the uneducated.

The study's I am referencing is comparing the 2012 election to the 2014. How the votes swung from Obama to Trump or Romney to Hillary.

Trump won over the uneducated.

That means if you were a rural farm boy with a collage degree you were more likely to vote Hillary then you were Obama. If you were an Urban kid on welfare you were more likely to vote Trump then you were Romney.

I don't know the status on the rurual vs city kids, and haven't worked with enough rural kids vs city kids where I feel like I can make a definitive choice. I see people from all backgrounds some are talented and some aren't. I would guess that more often then not, the smart kids are the ones moving to the big city's rather than staying home and working at the local factory or farms or mines.or maybe not. I really don't know. I would've stayed where I grew up if I was smarter. I moved to New York because I can make good money without working too hard.
Old     (Blamey)      Join Date: Apr 2016       09-11-2018, 7:14 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blamey View Post
Delta, you completely missed my point. I said that by every demographic (at least the ones that I can find) Trump won by appealing to the uneducated.

The study's I am referencing is comparing the 2012 election to the 2014. How the votes swung from Obama to Trump or Romney to Hillary.

Trump won over the uneducated.

That means if you were a rural farm boy with a collage degree you were more likely to vote Hillary then you were Obama. If you were an Urban kid on welfare you were more likely to vote Trump then you were Romney.

I don't know the status on the rurual vs city kids, and haven't worked with enough rural kids vs city kids where I feel like I can make a definitive choice. I see people from all backgrounds some are talented and some aren't. I would guess that more often then not, the smart kids are the ones moving to the big city's rather than staying home and working at the local factory or farms or mines.or maybe not. I really don't know. I would've stayed where I grew up if I was smarter. I moved to New York because I can make good money without working too hard.
I'll add to this that it's also possible that it's not Trump that appealed to the uneducated better but maybe it was Obama and thus the uneducated that Obama drew in we're no longer drawn to Hillary.
Old     (pesos)      Join Date: Oct 2001       09-11-2018, 7:53 PM Reply   
Let's not overstate the shifts here. Interesting to note that 2016 was actually a high as far as voter turnout goes (sad that such a low percentage overall could still be considered "high") and the most significant change was the increase in 3rd party votes. Given the crappiness of the 3rd party candidates, I think that speaks to the crappiness of both major party candidates.
Attached Images
 
Old     (Blamey)      Join Date: Apr 2016       09-11-2018, 8:19 PM Reply   
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...ote-for-trump/
Old     (wake77)      Join Date: Jan 2009       09-12-2018, 4:02 AM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
Yep. This is the typical Clinton reaction too. Anyone who is not a democrat is under educated and under informed. I find city people to be the most ignorant people I have ever been around. They tend to have extremely limited physical skills, even less social skills, and do not know geography at all.

They tend to sit in an echo chamber and tell each other the same things over an over and develop a sense self importance. My personal theory is that city people see how utterly unprepared most of their fellow dwellers are that ones who are not part of the city must be off the chains ignorant. I mean they have to be completely stupid because we all know that only city people get exposed to education and most of them are completely stupid, so country people must be able to barely put the fork to their mouth by comparison.

As someone who has to recruit technical folks, I have found the most prepared in skill and socially able to adapt are country kids. Understand mechanical and electrical systems, tend to be very mature due to them basically being raised around a business and have to actually rely on other people for survival. We have to recruit kids from thousands of miles away because the "city" kids are not prepared or even willing to work. Some with silicon valley. You wonder why they use so many people who are basically straight off the boat?

Some of the later generational people that really know there stuff are people who went to school in single room grade schools. The older children had to help teach the young and the young did not grow up entitled. Heck, my high school in Indiana has better facilities that the colleges around California has. Heck even our gym is as big as Stanford's gym. Education was way better than the garbage my kids had to go to out here. City people are smart my butt.

Funny thing is city people think because they have all the money that they some how have some sort of moral and intellectual ability. Country people have all the food and water. It is a small amount of time from the time that you have all the food and water, that you will have all the money. The country people cut the highways around the city, you would turn into a 6th world country in about 1 week. You would eat each other alive like animals.
You do understand that the appeal of Stanford is not it's sports programs? Look at all of the Ivy League schools. You don't see massive sports arenas or stadiums.

You are way off base on your assessment of education. Success in education highly hinges on the socioeconomic status of the family. If you have a school where most of the students live in poverty, the overall performance of the school will be low and vice versa. It has nothing to do with whether the school is in the city or in rural areas. In the county where I live in TN, all of the higher performing schools are in areas where the average household income is higher. The worst performing schools are those where the overwhelming majority of students qualify for free or reduced lunches.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-12-2018, 7:59 AM Reply   
I heard this morning that fed deficit spending is up 33% this year. Good job conservatives.
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       09-12-2018, 1:29 PM Reply   
When does one stop calling them conservatives?
https://www.politifact.com/punditfac...ear-first-200/

On the plus side orangenomics probably created the most wealth for those who needed it the least.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       09-12-2018, 1:49 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Nah I think Deltas argument is a good one. There is a lot of cheap rural labor being exploited / taken for granted.

In another time those people might have banded together and risen up against the bourgeoisie.
They kind of done that Shawn. That is why you have Trump. The country people and small business people used to be the heart and soul of the democrat party. Not any more. They have a pretty good sense of what is happening in the country and the world.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       09-12-2018, 1:56 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blamey View Post
Delta, you completely missed my point. I said that by every demographic (at least the ones that I can find) Trump won by appealing to the uneducated.

The study's I am referencing is comparing the 2012 election to the 2014. How the votes swung from Obama to Trump or Romney to Hillary.

Trump won over the uneducated.

That means if you were a rural farm boy with a collage degree you were more likely to vote Hillary then you were Obama. If you were an Urban kid on welfare you were more likely to vote Trump then you were Romney.

I don't know the status on the rurual vs city kids, and haven't worked with enough rural kids vs city kids where I feel like I can make a definitive choice. I see people from all backgrounds some are talented and some aren't. I would guess that more often then not, the smart kids are the ones moving to the big city's rather than staying home and working at the local factory or farms or mines.or maybe not. I really don't know. I would've stayed where I grew up if I was smarter. I moved to New York because I can make good money without working too hard.
I will tell you right now that every Republican I know will not answer poll data. I hang up every time and I have been called at least 3 times in the last couple years. How are they coming up with their numbers on who is educated and who is not?

Besides, have you been paying attention to how college kids behave socially these days? Protesting about everything? Sure do want those "educated" people running the show.

I always love to remind some uppity intellectuals that one of the smartest humans on this earth who was the father of the German rocket and later the US Space programs ended up working for a art school dropout who made it all the way to the rank of Corporal in the German Army.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       09-12-2018, 2:03 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
^And all of that is supported by the fact that so much of today's technology came from the fly-over states.
However it is actually a very large percent of the fly over states talent that moves to the technology centers that make the thrive. Also vast amounts of 3rd people who come in and make it thrive. How else do you describe the high amount of urban desolation (spelled democrats) in the actual richest places on earth? Oakland for example. San Jose (maybe not as bad). San Fran is pretty much pushing out any poor people to surrounding areas. Why were all those areas so bad when companies literally having to recruit out of the state and out of the country to fill the needs? Even Blamey had to move to New York. You would think that some local democrat could have filled that roll considering they area all so educated and socially mobile.

Something to think about.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-12-2018, 2:13 PM Reply   
Something else to think about. Smart people don't move to where uneducated people are for a job that requires smart people. They move to where the companies are that need smart people, which are usually located in places where the education is better. You can dance around with all the rationalizations in the world, but companies that require highly educated technical people don't move to places where the residents think a big gym is better than a Stanford diploma.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       09-12-2018, 2:14 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by wake77 View Post
You do understand that the appeal of Stanford is not it's sports programs? Look at all of the Ivy League schools. You don't see massive sports arenas or stadiums.

You are way off base on your assessment of education. Success in education highly hinges on the socioeconomic status of the family. If you have a school where most of the students live in poverty, the overall performance of the school will be low and vice versa. It has nothing to do with whether the school is in the city or in rural areas. In the county where I live in TN, all of the higher performing schools are in areas where the average household income is higher. The worst performing schools are those where the overwhelming majority of students qualify for free or reduced lunches.
I believe your take is misguided. Education starts at home and ends at home for the most part. It is the value that is placed on it at the home. Usually poor performing schools usually have more poor performing parents. It has ZERO to do with the amount of money put into the system. California outspends Indiana by a ton, yet educationally I was way ahead of kids my age when I got out here at 19. I was way ahead of where my kids were as well from pure education opportunities standpoint. Only difference is I was able to have a better leg up on how working at a more technology driven job drove different expectations that I could relate to my kids. I had way better first order education for STEM and had better access to vocational programs if I was to go that route. The attitude was different. Even the stoners talked about where they were going to school next where the kids my age out here were all about hanging out and maybe getting a job. That was not an option in the midwest. You went to school or the military or you got luck and a small percent stayed local.
Old     (fly135)      Join Date: Jun 2004       09-12-2018, 2:15 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
I always love to remind some uppity intellectuals that one of the smartest humans on this earth who was the father of the German rocket and later the US Space programs ended up working for a art school dropout who made it all the way to the rank of Corporal in the German Army.
And all our Nazis are lucky if they can tell which end of a tiki torch points up.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       09-12-2018, 2:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
Something else to think about. Smart people don't move to where uneducated people are for a job that requires smart people. They move to where the companies are that need smart people, which are usually located in places where the education is better. You can dance around with all the rationalizations in the world, but companies that require highly educated technical people don't move to places where the residents think a big gym is better than a Stanford diploma.
They don't move because of either the CEO/ Venture Capitalists don't want to move aka the money people. Also many of these companies are already set up with permits for their dangerous processing chemicals and so on. Machine shops set up for quick modeling. All quick response stuff. It is more about momentum than anything. You are finding more and more momentum starting though. Texas, Colorado, North Carolina are all creating technology centers. It takes a lot of infastructure to make it work. The tecnology centers move to where the money is, the workers will move to the jobs. The workers tend to come from the fly over states or 3rd world. Usually the local populations are too lazy to do the work.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       09-12-2018, 2:24 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier View Post
They kind of done that Shawn. That is why you have Trump. The country people and small business people used to be the heart and soul of the democrat party. Not any more. They have a pretty good sense of what is happening in the country and the world.


Kind of, yes. It seems to me to be more of a cult of personality than ideology, but there is no denying the power of this long overlooked (or at least under appreciated) voting block of poorer rural less educated white folks.

In the same way that low voting minority demographics came out for obama, trump has done an incredible of energizing a very loyal base.

I do wonder whether ceding power to their benevolent capitalist overlords (ie the very rich) is the best use of this groupís political clout, but reasonable (and even unreasonable) minds can differ on that point.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       09-12-2018, 2:28 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly135 View Post
And all our Nazis are lucky if they can tell which end of a tiki torch points up.
Yep. All 200 of them with brand new out of the box flags that got off the buses with the counter protestors. Interesting groupings for sure. However, you certainly have a ton of communist friends out shutting down free speech on college campuses, blocking highways, camping out in cities for what ever causes and burning down city blocks. Sounds like a pretty lively intelligent bunch to me.
Old     (DeltaHoosier)      Join Date: Mar 2018       09-12-2018, 2:29 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
Kind of, yes. It seems to me to be more of a cult of personality than ideology, but there is no denying the power of this long overlooked (or at least under appreciated) voting block of poorer rural less educated white folks.

In the same way that low voting minority demographics came out for obama, trump has done an incredible of energizing a very loyal base.

I do wonder whether ceding power to their benevolent capitalist overlords (ie the very rich) is the best use of this groupís political clout, but reasonable (and even unreasonable) minds can differ on that point.
Tell me when the last time a poor person ran the country? Actually tell me the last time a poor person gave you a job?
Old     (95sn)      Join Date: Sep 2005       09-12-2018, 4:41 PM Reply   
Quote:
I believe your take is misguided. Education starts at home and ends at home for the most part. It is the value that is placed on it at the home. Usually poor performing schools usually have more poor performing parents. It has ZERO to do with the amount of money put into the system. California outspends Indiana by a ton, yet educationally I was way ahead of kids my age when I got out here at 19. I was way ahead of where my kids were as well from pure education opportunities standpoint.
Im not sure you are saying the Indiana School system is better? or You were not as good a parent at home as your parents were... driving the importance of school into kids head , making them do homework...
California does outspend Indy, but there is a large difference in cost of living/ teacher pay difference too. I whole heartedly agree with you that without caring, involved parents the kids will almost never do well in school. Poor performing parents are a big problem. Poor performing parents are often found in poor communities. Low income areas have barriers affluent areas dont have.
Share 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 5:22 PM.

Home   Articles   Pics/Video   Gear   Wake 101   Events   Community   Forums   Classifieds   Contests   Shop   Search
Wake World Home

 

© 2019 eWake, Inc.    
Advertise    |    Contact    |    Terms of Use    |    Privacy Policy    |    Report Abuse    |    Conduct    |    About Us