California boycotting Arizona

Jeremy, Thats what is happening right now, Illegals are moving in. The Americans are now having to move north to find work or live on the streets due to the fact that all the local buisnesses are finding illegals to fill all of the spots @ half the price.. The only way they can do so is because they are being paid cash under the table and not paying taxes, they are stealing from the USA...

I work my ASS of to barly keep my family fed and a roof over their heads... Due to the fact that 7 Illegal families will cram themselves into a 2 bedroom house and drive down the labor cost & the demand...

There are proper channels for immigrants (of EVERY nationality) to use to become citizens if they so wish. We can't pack our **** and move to Finland, Kenya, Mexico, or anywhere, unless rules are followed. Rules are in place for a reason. They provide order and direction. Nobody said a Mexican, or a Swede for that matter, can't come live and work in America. They just said they need to do it in accordance with the rules. Not too much to ask really. I work with dozens of doctors from foreign countries--pretty sad when they are spitting mad because illegals receive sooooo much help and their justification is "because I'm here now." Breaking laws does not entitle you to anything except a court appointed attorney when you get caught.
Do it the right way and welcome to America. Do it the wrong way, then get the fuq out and try agin--the correct way like all of the other legal immigrants did. Millions have went through the immigration process, it can't be that damn tough....

Letting illegals stay after breaking the law is like high-fiving your kid for steeling a candy bar. What sense does that make? Punish them for Christ's sake.

This moring on Fox news(Not a big fan) they posted the FEDERAL law that says if you are asked for papers to show you are in this country legal and can not, you are subject to a $1000 fine and 6 months in jail. So how is this law so different than federal law. ITS NOT!!! The federal government is just to scared to do anything about it. I have lived in AZ for 37 years and hate the changes I have seen. Many once nice Neighborhoods have been totally run down and have turned into Barios. I am definately not Racist at all and have worked with illegals on a dairy when I was 16 and they worked harder and were more family oriented then half the people I had ever met. They were just trying to give their family a better life. They took jobs that some lazy white guys didn't want. If a person wants to come to America so bad, fine, give them the opportunity to become a citizen if they want to work here. What this law is targeting is the 75% of illegals that are here to sell drugs, commit crimes, spread the drug trade, and basically do anything they feel like knowing that when they are caught they go back to Mexico, wait a few weeks, then come back. That is why I am for the law. They have to get these idiots off the streets. Every time Arpio does his crime sweeps of illegals, he goes into the neighborhoods that are selling dope and makes alot of arrests. You don't see them pulling up to Home Depot and aresting people because those are not the ones they are after.
Whats sad is a kid in my class who is here illegally and I hope gets deported said the other day "Fine, they want to treat us like Criminals, I am gonna act like a criminal." That is the mentality we are dealing with.

I think it's great to get back to pulling things together. You want to move here from another contry for a better life? Do it legally. Don't expect everyone that has worked hard to share what they've earned. Earn it yourself. That's what's made this country great. If you're here illegally, go home or we'll send you home.

I personally like what AZ is doing and what the Alabama Gubinatorial Candidate is propsing if he's elected.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9ohs...layer_embedded

http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/201...uffpost/557721

Is this a step in the right direction? I know its proposed by Democrats but this seems like it will help. Biometric IDs for employment and punishment for those that circumvent the law.

Best line from the article, "no Republican support, as Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) continues to hold out, arguing that the divisive issue will make progress on climate change legislation impossible." HAHAHAHAHA!!

This is how messed up California is.

I have friend that owns a business in Santa Cruz and has undocumented employees. The California Labor Board goes to these employees and educates them on meal break laws and helps these employees file a suit against my friend.

A Native Californian/local business man that helps the economy is now screwed out of $25,000+ because the state is hard at work!

Hold on.

Your friend hires illegals... and we're supposed to feel BAD for him?

maybe Obama etal will just make Mexico a state after they get finished with Puerto Rico....

Well they are jobs that no one else wants to do, so the vicious circle continues.

I work in the technology/construction business and we don't hire illegals. We had one very good installer that had his SS# come back as fraudulent. We fired his ass. He was a good guy but we don't hire illegal aliens- period. A $250,000 fine for any business that hired an illegal alien would send many of them packing back to Mexico. That said, I may have an illegal alien or two on the payroll indirectly through a temp agency but they don't work for us directly and it is the temp agency's problem to determine that stuff. We don't have the time or incentive to do their employee background checks.

I am sure it is nice in Agri-Business to have a low-wage underclass to pay next to nothing to but the negatives outweigh the benefits IMO.

x

Originally Posted by pierce_bronkite

Dan are you saying you have never hired illegal workers in your line of work? If so, thats a first!

My dad and 4 of my Uncles all own construction businesses in Southern California, they would NEVER give work to an illegal, any white construction worker who does is only contributing to the problem and undermining their own trade.

Wes, stop trolling

No Paul, you're the dumb one. I love how all of you guys can go back in time and talk to GW and Ben Franklin and find out what they really meant when they drafted the Constitution. You guys are generally the same ones that can go back in time to the days of Moses and Jesus and know exactly what they were saying when they inked the Bible.

And Mr. Intelligence Paul, you do realize that there is about a twenty year process for a Mexican to become a US citizen?

Paul, I recommend you reach down and pull your head out of your arse, computer tough guy.

it just boggles my mind that anyone can actually think that it is ok for anyone to be here illegally. whether or not they snuck across the border, or have overstayed a visa. illegal is illegal.
if we are that starved for someone to pick our fruits and veggies, bring back chain gang type work, and have minimum risk prisoners do that work. oh wait, that would be considered inhumane treatment by all of the bleeding heart libs out there. those people have zero problem with illegals coming here to do the work, but would balk at actually having imprisoned criminals do the same thing.

Riley - I just find it humorous to complain about the state that California is in.. yet tell a story of a friend hiring illegal immigrants, then paint it so that we should feel badly for him. Hilarious.

Well I'm gonna start a grass roots boycott of California until they mind there own damn buisness, not gonna buy anymore avacados or Apple products. That's the only good things that come out of that place...

Matt,

people in Cali support AZ, it doesn't get press becuase then there would be a problem 2 sates taking action the FEDs won't! Obamam would have a problem because Texas would surely follow! If they don't liked being "PROFILED" then leave! We get profiled for everything in life, like it or not its just the way it is! People just want to protest against something no matter what it is!
Funny how there are no protest against the illegals for all the home invasions taking place along the border towns, oh wait lets not talk about the farmer killed on his property by illegals!

Yea liz as a business owner it pisses me off to know that the state of California is helping illegals sue other business owners.

I'm not saying it's right to hire illegals and when he told us this I told him he's an idiot. What I have a problem with is the State going and seeking out illegals and helping them sue the same business that are paying taxes to help fund programs for illegals.

"Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism."-Kenny Powers

Here's the way i look at it, if CA boycots us here in AZ, then we should dam up the CAP canal and stop sending power to southern CA. That should shut them up real quick....

Really if your not from AZ then mind your own business. Its called States Rights.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5152397

as if anyone should listen to a damn word ozzie guillen says. biggest ahole in baseball.

do people really believe that they are going to get stopped on the street for being brown skinned? there are more than just hispanic people here illegally. this law has nothing to do with profiling, but everything to do with the fact that the feds are not doing what they are supposed to do.

pull all of our troops out of all of the foreign countries, and put them on both our northern and southern borders. treat anyone sneaking in, just like they would be treated if they were sneaking into other countries. we need to stop pussyfooting around about this.

Some City of Austin officials are discussing another way to try to be more like California...

http://www.kvue.com/news/-Arizonas-n...-92550464.html

People who are protesting and for boycotting Arizona are for illegal immigration. All concerns about racial profiling, racism, and violating people rights are just a smoke screen for their support of illegal immigration. We tried amnesty back in 1986, then the Federal Government refused to enforce the law. What makes people think that 2010 will be any different? We have as much as 5 times as many illegal immigrants as in 1986. Do the math! By 2035, we could have as many as 100 million illegal immigrants. Most American citizens do not want immigration reform, we just want current law enforced since we haven't even tried that yet. The Arizona law just gives local law enforcement the same authority concerning immigration that the Border Patrol, FBI, and DEA have. People who are illegal aliens will be detained until they can be processed by ICE. They will not be just released on their own recogniscence, never to return, where they can commit additional crimes (Identify Theft is a crime), take American jobs, and use government services.

Originally Posted by wake77

No Paul, you're the dumb one. I love how all of you guys can go back in time and talk to GW and Ben Franklin and find out what they really meant when they drafted the Constitution. You guys are generally the same ones that can go back in time to the days of Moses and Jesus and know exactly what they were saying when they inked the Bible.

And Mr. Intelligence Paul, you do realize that there is about a twenty year process for a Mexican to become a US citizen?

Paul, I recommend you reach down and pull your head out of your arse, computer tough guy.

LMFAO. I just spit coffee on my keyboard. Computer tough guy? Do you know the difference between arguing and threatening? lol.

One modification less than a week after the "perfect" immigration law was passed. Wonder how many more modifications before the law goes into effect in July?

Paul, I know the difference enough to not call someone, I don't know, dumb, simply because they have a different opinion that I do.

Originally Posted by wake77

Everything is perfect in Paul's world.

You started with the jabs, but you're right. I should have called you dumb.

No one said this was a perfect bill. It certainly is not a immigration bill It is a law that requires or at least gives law enforcement a way to actually enforce the actual law for a change. Just love the dishonest by the democrats on this board. Always framing the argument that people who are for this are some how racists and against immigrants. Just like Iraq, continue to lie to appease your conscience. Continued argument in regards to illegal immigration and the inability to understand economics and social constructs.

460,000(est) illegal immigrants in AZ

Let's say of those there are 80k babies born each year from illegals

The avg cost of a baby delivery is $13,000 ($9k - 17K normal OR $14k to $25k Complication/c-section)

Total cost to AZ tax payers/US Citizens.. $1,040,000,000 (yes, that's BILLION)

That doesn't include ongoing costs associated with schooling, other health care expenses, etc..

That extra money can go to public schools (approx $600k for each of the 2,200 public schools in AZ), kid programs, etc, etc..

And I'm sure that's just a small fraction of the associated costs.

"However, Arizona dropped two ranks to 50 out of 50 in the "Smartest State" ranking, despite a budget of $7 billion in the 2004-05 school year, spending more than $6300 per student. (The "Smartest State" rankings are based on student achievement, positive outcomes and personal attention from teachers.) Part of Arizona's problem its dropout rates for all nationalities are higher than then national average, especially in the Hispanic and Native American populations. These two ethnicities have the highest overall dropout rates at 7.6% and 10% respectively."
http://www.localschooldirectory.com/state-schools/AZ

thank you Kung Fu-
but instead of rationally looking at it this way, some officials in our state of AZ have decided to try and trick the public and raise state sales tax an additional 1% to raise money for the schools... I would bet that a large majority of the people who will vote yes on prop 100 dont understand a damn about it, except the commercials, billboards, radio ads, etc they have seen of little kids and teachers asking for more money to be put in our schools.

Im all for teachers/kids/schools/ getting add'l funding, but cut the over spending and fluff our politicians BLOW through before you ask me to donate 1% of all my sales to them.

Delta, I suppose that is a shot at me.

The land of the free right? As a legal citizen of the US, shouldn't I be able to walk down the street and mind my own business without any ID, without be harassed by law enforcement?

Why shouldn't a person (here legally) with a different ethnic background be able to do the same (Hispanic, Chinese, etc.)?

Nazi's made it illegal for Jews to be in public without the identifying mark being visible. Yet Democrats are the Nazi-Socialists.

Where does it say that any person walking down the street can be subjected to asking for ID?

The way it is worded, a violation or crime must be committed prior to any of this going into action. This is putting stiffer penalties on already Federal Law. Seems the biggest issue is making sure law enforcement, and obviously society, needs to know the reality and jurisdiction of this bill.

http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/04/16/AzSB1070.pdf

Originally Posted by wake77

Delta, I suppose that is a shot at me.

The land of the free right? As a legal citizen of the US, shouldn't I be able to walk down the street and mind my own business without any ID, without be harassed by law enforcement?

Why shouldn't a person (here legally) with a different ethnic background be able to do the same (Hispanic, Chinese, etc.)?

Nazi's made it illegal for Jews to be in public without the identifying mark being visible. Yet Democrats are the Nazi-Socialists.

Jeremy - it is people like you who are worried about racial profiling, yet have not even read the proposed law. no one is going to get stopped because they "look" like an illegal. if these people are so worried about being deported, I suggest they start the process to become a citizen, or just don't violate anymore laws. if they do that, they should have nothing to worry about.

Land of the free my butt. Keep dreaming. It is already a law that if a cop stops you, you have to provide ID or you can be detained until you provide ID. I live by that rule every day and so do you as a matter of fact.

I saw this in the thread about the statue of liberty. Hate to tell you folks, that was a gift from the French. It is a testament to how the US takes in immigrants, but, they were all still got sent through the system and documented. They also were put through the system during a time where there were no safety nets. Be all you can be kind of time. Now, the government provides services and social safety nets that are paid into for a lifetime by it's citizens. Now you introduced a economic pyramid scheme into the mix. When you start talking economics, it is not a system that can function with vast numbers of people who do not contribute, so you have to limit the number and who they are. If you don't the whole thing will collapse. Look at California. It is estimated that illegals cost the state over 7 billion dollars a year. Care to guess about how much money we are short a year in the state? That is the direct costs. Then take all that money that "white" people supposedly won't do and start shipping it out of the country at the tune of 25 billion a year to mexico, you start to have a crap load of problems. I saw a argument recently that states that the lower and middle class are the ones who actually spend money and prop up local economies. Well, I think many people would love to have a crack at selling goods and services to a 25 billion dollar a year crowd.
.

Originally Posted by wakeandsnow27

thank you Kung Fu-
but instead of rationally looking at it this way, some officials in our state of AZ have decided to try and trick the public and raise state sales tax an additional 1% to raise money for the schools... I would bet that a large majority of the people who will vote yes on prop 100 dont understand a damn about it, except the commercials, billboards, radio ads, etc they have seen of little kids and teachers asking for more money to be put in our schools.

Im all for teachers/kids/schools/ getting add'l funding, but cut the over spending and fluff our politicians BLOW through before you ask me to donate 1% of all my sales to them.

Ty, I am a teacher and have seriously been looking at all sides of prop 100 and am not sure how i will vote yet. The way it looks now if it doesn't pass, I will be getting a 5% pay cut and 5 furlough days which ends up being about a 9% pay cut, and that is money that no teacher will ever get back no matter what. They will build a new salary schedule and that is what you will be on. I know people have said that it is actually more like an 18% tax increase when you base it on $2000 of sales taxes paid in a year. So I have to look at it as pay an extra $300 a year paid in taxes of a $4500 a year pay cut.
As far as cutting other things goes, you are right, but the only thing left to cut is tax breaks to businesses and the state has already said they will not do it. So where do you go then. I have thought of several ways that school districts could save money, but guess what, no one will listen because it would make parents actually have to deal with their kids 10 more days out of the year and everyone knows teachers in AZ are considered glorified baby-sitters, which sucks.
Yes I got off on a tangent, but as far as the immigration bill goes, it will hurt public education even more since alot of these families are going to leave or not send their kids to school so school funding gets hit again, especially in the older less affluent school districts. This state is getting run into the ground by lawyers and professional politicians who have plenty of $$ in their pockets and care nothing about the middle class. I am definately for the new bill, but hate the leadership we have had here the last 8 years. I have lived here my entire life, but if the present government can not get it together and do what is right, it may be time to look else where or pick a new profession.

Jeremy, do you know what the biggest political debate in the country was on 9/10/2001? It was racial profiling. It was in all the media talk shows. Al Sharpton and company were marching around about it. If it quacks like a duck and you have statistics on it, then by god you should be profiled. Kind of ironic that people who love big government don't like profiling. You vote for discrimination of various ethnic groups. You vote for bigger government that cannot possibly pass laws that help individuals but by definition have to be broad to enough to hit a large profile of people. Your votes continually say you are for one thing but always say you want freedom. Nothing like voting yourself into bondage. Human nature I guess.

But I cop cannot stop me unless I am suspected of breaking a law. Me walking my dog down the road does not warrant a police officer stopping me in my state. Would it be safe to say an AZ police officer could look at any person and demand ID?

Originally Posted by wake77

But I cop cannot stop me unless I am suspected of breaking a law. Me walking my dog down the road does not warrant a police officer stopping me in my state. Would it be safe to say an AZ police officer could look at any person and demand ID?

exactly. and law enforcement WILL NOT be stopping anyone to check an ID. they will stop people for breaking the law, and they will then have the right to check ID, etc. if you don't violate the law, then dont worry about it. so many people think the cops are going to drive around town and stop anyone with brown skin and ask them if they are citizens. are people really this naive?

yes Train, unfortunately they are. even the President.

That's the point we are making jeremy, cops are not going to stop anyone walking their dog. Someone breaking the law, can, and normally no matter what the state is, are asked for ID.

Now if a cop misunderstands the law, that's not the law's fault, that's that cop and their departments issue for not understanding what the facts and reality of the law/bill is/are

I am curious of the people who think we should just leave the illegals alone on how they would take care of 120 million immigrants? It is a lot. How many immigrants should we allow?

that cartoon is more pathetic than it is funny. Native Americans in the Southwest never dressed like that. But I'm sure 99% of people wouldn't know or care

Happy Cinco De Mayo!

Posted today in SD Craigslist (not by me):

Good Morning fellow Americans;

I've been watching the news lately, about the whole hoopla over the Arizona fiasco, that our obviously biased media is portraying as a "great civil rights battle against an oppressive, Latino hating government." It has got me thinking..

Before I continue, ladies and gentlemen, a bit of back story. I am a Petty Officer 2nd Class in our nation's great Navy. I proudly served my country for 8 years, and God willing, wish to serve until retirement. I grew up in Brooklyn, NY and hated this country back then. Being the son of a second generation Puerto Rican family, you could see my animosity. We barely subsided on welfare, housing projects and my father's "under the table" work. I saw what I believed back then to be a country that hated minorities, and as such, was entitled to privileges and special treatment.

Then I turned 20, and I was tired of living in the same 10 city block radius, and seeing my bros barely living, surviving by dealing drugs and petty ****. I wanted to see the world. I joined the Navy. Joining the Navy opened up a new world for me. I cast aside my old image. I was no longer just a 'Rican from the projects. I became an American. I met and became fast friends with fellow Americans from all walks of life. White, Black, Asian, Native or Hispanic.. I came to see just one race, one society, that of America.

My fellow patriots, this travesty of villanizing the great state of Arizona, for showing the moral fortitude to simply enforce pre-existing Federal mandate, and will of it's constituents, sets a dangerous precedent. By our Commander-in-Chief, and our duly elected Federal government's desire to impose it's will on an obvious State-level issue, sends a message to the American people. This message, I fear, is that it is ok to circumvent and pervert the rules and regulations of our government, if it consolidates your power base.

Let's be frank, San Diego R and R. All the illegal aliens that everyday teem across our nation's sovereign borders, this "invasion" if you will, erodes and weakens us as a people. These Mexicans hold allegiance to Mexico, not America. Sure, they gladly accept our medical/dental care and our welfare and schools, but do they love America? Absolutely not. But his matters not to those in power, as these now "illegal aliens" will become future voters.

Thank you for your time in hearing out my rant. God bless the United States, God bless the Constitution, and support your troops.

^^Fake.

Why would a member of the US military make mention of the Constitution? When you are on active duty, the US Constitution does not apply to you. You are bound to the UCMJ, in which publicly criticizing a superior officer (i.e. The President) is a punishable offense.

all the illegal aliens that everyday teem across our nation's sovereign borders, this "invasion" if you will, erodes and weakens us as a people. These mexicans hold allegiance to mexico, not america. Sure, they gladly accept our medical/dental care and our welfare and schools, but do they love america? Absolutely not. But his matters not to those in power, as these now "illegal aliens" will become future voters.

qft

What president? He won't show his own papers...What a great example.

haha. fake or not, the "letter" makes perfect sense. still don't understand how you can't see the truth jeremy.

Jeremy, your profile states you are a student. May I ask where and what you are studying?

But I cop cannot stop me unless I am suspected of breaking a law. Me walking my dog down the road does not warrant a police officer stopping me in my state. Would it be safe to say an AZ police officer could look at any person and demand ID?

To me, that's the problem. If the police were allowed to do their job and act on a hunch/gut feeling, most crimes could probably be prevented. I have no problem showing the police my ID.

Mark, I am a senior at a local university, BS Secondary Mathematics and BS Applied Mathematics-General.

Train, I don't appreciate someone mailing in a letter with an attempt to garnish support for something by lying that they are in the military. As a Navy veteran, I find it offensive for someone to lie about their service. If you begin a letter with a lie, why should I believe anything else in the letter?

Ron T, I have a problem with someone harassing me if I am minding my own business. Your opinion about police procedures border on communistic ideas. I got an idea, why don't we have our SSN tattooed on our foreheads?

Dennis, I thought that issue was laid to rest. Did you worry about seeing the birth certificate for any other president? Why are you worried about seeing Barrack's?

Originally Posted by wake77

Mark, I am a senior at a local university, BS Secondary Mathematics and BS Applied Mathematics-General.

Train, I don't appreciate someone mailing in a letter with an attempt to garnish support for something by lying that they are in the military. As a Navy veteran, I find it offensive for someone to lie about their service. If you begin a letter with a lie, why should I believe anything else in the letter?

Ron T, I have a problem with someone harassing me if I am minding my own business. Your opinion about police procedures border on communistic ideas. I got an idea, why don't we have our SSN tattooed on our foreheads?

Dennis, I thought that issue was laid to rest. Did you worry about seeing the birth certificate for any other president? Why are you worried about seeing Barrack's?

Other Presidents didn't block anyone from seeing theirs. They probably were asked to be seen, and then were, so it wasn't news.

Originally Posted by skongolf

Ty, I am a teacher and have seriously been looking at all sides of prop 100 and am not sure how i will vote yet. The way it looks now if it doesn't pass, I will be getting a 5% pay cut and 5 furlough days which ends up being about a 9% pay cut, and that is money that no teacher will ever get back no matter what.

Sounds like you need to start pushing the new law and immigration reform rather than taxing your fellow Arizonians because of the illegals.. Yet another sign how "we" end up paying while the illegals get a free ride..

(704):
Halloween has nothing on dressing up as as the INS on cinco de mayo
textsfromlastnight.com

Jeremy, my liberal friend, socialism is "spreading the wealth." However, when I was young, my parents frequently took my cousins and me to visit my grandparents, We sometimes were allowed to roam the local neighborhood in search of adventure. On one quest, the local police drove by and say us walking and began to question us. At the time I didn't understand, but I do now. We were strangers and they did not know what our intentions were, so to them they were just doing their job. I'm not for harassment, but the police should be allowed to question suspicious individuals.

What is your definition of suspicious? To me, a police officer interrogating an innocent citizen for unjust cause is harassment.

P.S. Democrat and Liberal are not always synonymous.

Since you are obviously not going to read the actual bill, I will highlight the part you're not getting and explain it to you.

"As originally approved, SB 1070 required police to determine the immigration status of those with whom they have "lawful contact" if there was a “reasonable suspicion” the person was not in the United States (and thus Arizona) legally.

The first key word in that paragraph is "lawfull contact." That means if someone did something wrong, they can have contact with them.

The second key word is "reasonable suspicion." If an officer has lawful contact with someone, and they suspect they are not actual citizens, they can investigate further.

An example would be, lets say an officer pulls over a white van for speeding. It is filled with 15 mexicans. He asks to see everyones ID. They can't produce any documentation, he arrests them. In the hours that follow, while they are being booked, they can't get any proof. They get deported.

Whats wrong with that?

Another example;

I am in Europe. I get pulled over for speeding. I don't have any proof of who I am, and no passport. I get hauled in to jail. While being booked, I call my wife, and she brings my passport down to the station. I get a ticket(that I will never pay!) and leave.

If a cop stops me while I am walking my dog, walking down the street, driving whatever, and questions me, I could care less. I know I didn't do anything wrong so what do I have to be pissed about? Yeah maybe they wasted my time, but at least they are doing their job and staying alert. All these people that criticize the poilice really bother me. How would you like to have a job that, every day there is a high possibility you won't come home. I suppose you didnt see in the paper or here on the news. A couple months ago where a Gilbert cop was shot in the face on a routine traffic stop then the two guys led police on a 70 mile chase. Those tow should have been shot on the spot, but no, thanks to the restrained efforts of the police, they lived to go through the courts so we can pay $$$$$ to send them through our justice system.
I am tired of shelling out $$$ for illegals to be here. I am all for giving them a way to become citizens legally but no way should they be provided for by our country and then call us intollerant racists. Ohhh and by the way, MCSO did another raid on a business yesterday and found 40 or so illegals with fake papers and I beleive 12-15 had warrants and drugs. So don't tell me that we are racially profiling. We are catching criminals!!

What do you guys think is going to happen if we deport every illegal alien? Do you honestly think "Americans" are going to be standing in line to take the jobs left by the illegals? The guy on unemployment is not going to be racing to the Mexican restaurant (for example) to take the minimum wage dishwashing position. Then many businesses that rely on illegals (whether it is right or not) are going to be forced to close which is going to result in less taxes for the state.

Steve, if I was really bothered by consequences faced on my job, then I would switch jobs. Currently, I work at a distribution center. I go to work each day knowing that I can be ran over by a forklift. I have two choices, A). find another job or B). accept the risk and continue to work. Police officers along with any other occupation have the same choices.

Also Steve, I find your logic a bit flawed. First you posted:

"All these people that criticize the poilice really bother me."

And then in your post you say:

"Those tow should have been shot on the spot, but no, thanks to the restrained efforts of the police, they lived to go through the courts so we can pay $$$$$ to send them through our justice system."

So does this mean that you bother yourself?

So thats your stance? We won't be able to fill the jobs? lol. try getting rid of them and reducing wellfare payments.

YES, we won't be able to fill the jobs. Go to your local Taco Bell or McDonalds. I guarantee that they are hiring for multiple positions. If we have all of these people that are needing work, why aren't these positions filled? Most unemployed Americans, are not going to take a minimum wage job when they can make more on unemployment. It's the American way and deporting all of the illegal immigrants is not going to alleviate that.

and therein lies the problem. If you can make more on unemployment, than you can working, we have a fundamental problem with our society.

The notion that the restaurant industry would fail if illegals were removed is just plain wrong. I employ several younger, legal people of all races to do the less than glamorous work in the "back of the house". I also employ 2 mentally handicapped men that enjoy running an industrial dish washer. They both happen to be white. So....let's not use that argument.......okay?!

Originally Posted by psudy

and therein lies the problem. If you can make more on unemployment, than you can working, we have a fundamental problem with our society.

Exactly!!!

Jeremy, You should be a politician. You are great at twisting words to meet your needs.
Yes the people that criticize the police do bother me. The ones who say that they are too aggressive and insensitive. Yes there are those few, but for the most part their prime goal is public safety.
Yes I do think the police should have shot those two cop killers. Like I said why do we spend so much money giving criminals due process. It's becomming a joke. I read an article recently where they said it costs appx. $150k a year to keep some one on death row. This country is being run into the ground by criminals and having to deal with people living in this country just makes it worse.
ALSO, comparing your job to a Policeman's job is a joke!! You liberals really do grasp for straws at times.

Has anyone ever thought that we do not need a taco bell on every street corner? Taco Bell's and McDonalds at every corner is a result of having a near permanent slave class. If you did not have the slave class, you viability studies that tell people they can support a fast food resturant at every corner would say they could not make it. Thus you would not have a fast food at every corner thus needing the slave class.

The potential consequences could be more people eating away from home (less social contact with family), eating crap food (health issues), over inflating markets artificially (unsubstanable). Having a large source of cheap labor certainly did not help the housing market now did it? Cheaply built homes and a ton of them. Sounds good while the slave class is being used and the investors are artificially boosting the market. That is until the reality sets in that the vast majority of your market can no long afford to buy the houses that were overbuilt and you have what you do today. If the market did not have the slave class, you would not have been able to build the houses as fast and cheaply thus the investment opportunity may not have been as lucrative and you may never had the run up. If you did have the run up, the over inflation would have happened much sooner with the limited volume and the landing would be softer more likely.

After everything, They have succeeded in destroying the middle class working man by cheapening his/her labor. Killed our housing value due to over supply. Put fast food on every corner. Kill the emergency room. Kill the public school system. What else could you ask for?

jeremy,

I know this is hard for you to grasp, but go back to a time where you were not even born. you know, when a lot of us were in HS and getting our first jobs. we did jobs like this. me and my friends washed dishes, bussed tables, worked retail, flipped burgers. I would say the only "menial job" that I did not do while in HS, was pick strawberries. but guess what, I helped pick lemons and oranges on my friends parents ranch.
you know who do those jobs now? illegals. they take jobs from HS kids who now think they are too good for those jobs. american mindsets need to change. my dad worked at a service station as a kid to help his family make ends meet. my brother did the same, and I worked crappy paying jobs if I wanted to buy anything "extravagent for myself. illegals who have been pouring into our country by the millions now TAKE those jobs from HS aged kids because they will do them for either $1/hr less, or they will get paid cash under the table.
don't get me started on the construction business, because I might make your young brain explode.

Originally Posted by deltahoosier

Has anyone ever thought that we do not need a taco bell on every street corner? Taco Bell's and McDonalds at every corner is a result of having a near permanent slave class. If you did not have the slave class, you viability studies that tell people they can support a fast food resturant at every corner would say they could not make it. Thus you would not have a fast food at every corner thus needing the slave class.

The potential consequences could be more people eating away from home (less social contact with family), eating crap food (health issues), over inflating markets artificially (unsubstanable). Having a large source of cheap labor certainly did not help the housing market now did it? Cheaply built homes and a ton of them. Sounds good while the slave class is being used and the investors are artificially boosting the market. That is until the reality sets in that the vast majority of your market can no long afford to buy the houses that were overbuilt and you have what you do today. If the market did not have the slave class, you would not have been able to build the houses as fast and cheaply thus the investment opportunity may not have been as lucrative and you may never had the run up. If you did have the run up, the over inflation would have happened much sooner with the limited volume and the landing would be softer more likely.

After everything, They have succeeded in destroying the middle class working man by cheapening his/her labor. Killed our housing value due to over supply. Put fast food on every corner. Kill the emergency room. Kill the public school system. What else could you ask for?

That pretty much sums it up! Very well put!!! I couldn't agree more.

I don't know where to begin.

Steve, show me in my post where I compare my job to a policeman's. There are risks in every job, in law enforcement the risks are, in fact, greater. But no one forces anyone to take a career in law enforcement. They are also free to end their employment at any time. And every police officer I know understands the risks involved in being in law enforcement. To them, the benefits outweigh the risks.

Cliff, I never said that the restaurant business or any particular business would fail.

Delta, your view is flawed. There is not a Taco Bell and McDonalds on every corner because of cheap labor, it is because of the demand for the product and convenience these entities deliver. It doesn't matter if you find someone willing to work for .50 an hour, if people are not patronizing your establishment, you won't stay open long. You ever heard of "supply and demand"? And then you want to attack businesses for using capitalism to their advantage, sounds a bit hypocritical to me.

Train, the notion that the illegals have take all of the jobs is absurd. I'm being a bit redundant, but go to the Taco Bell or McDonalds and I guarantee that they are hiring. Wal-Mart is always hiring. I worked at a grocery store during high school, and that same grocery store is still hiring 15 years later. Look, I'm 32 years old and I know the value of a dollar.

I know where you can begin, Jeremy, by never coming to Arizona. We're trying to get rid of the infestation of liberals in this state. All they've proven is that they know how to run a state into the ground. See California.

Originally Posted by amo

i know where you can begin, jeremy, by never coming to arizona. We're trying to get rid of the infestation of liberals in this state. All they've proven is that they know how to run a state into the ground. See california.

amen!!!!!!

Well, considering post after post you demonstrate a basic lack of economics, I will stick with my thought process.

It also does not matter if you have patrons. The reason they have patrons is they sell the product cheap. Cheap labor keeps products cheap. It is basic economics. 9th grade stuff. If you don't have a) cheap labor and b) the labor to run the establishment, you are not going to be in business.

I am not at all attacking businesses for using capitalism. I am pointing out a fact of life. It is the human factor in organizations. You know the real life on the ground stuff that is constantly ignored.

Amo, I'm born and bred California (49 years) and your so right!

Jeremy, 32 years old and still getting his BS in Math; based on your posts here you have obviously failed econ a few times...

AMO, I would love to come visit your great state of Arizona, play on your golf courses, and keep a lanyard with my passport, birth cert, and drivers license on it. California has bee pussified and as said as it is to say, I may not got back because I don't want those libs to have my money.

What is your definition of suspicious? To me, a police officer interrogating an innocent citizen for unjust cause is harassment.

P.S. Democrat and Liberal are not always synonymous.

I used to think the same way about the Democratic Party. Anyway, the point I was trying to make was the local police--a small town--didn't know us, so they were just checking us out. We could have been bad apples but they didn't know that. After they figured out who we were, they left us alone.

I applaud Jeremy for getting his degree. I am envious of him getting more formal education. I am happy for him in that regard. I don't agree with his premise of human nature.

Mark, do you feel like the bigger man now? Yes, I am 32, working on two BS in Mathematics, I didn't start school until I was 28, as I was in the military fighting for guys like you that claim to support the troops, but you insult me because we disagree politically. I have a 3.4 GPA, and have never received a grade lower than a C. Have you ever been to college? Have you ever thought what those math classes are like once you get past multivariable calculus or differential equations? It's real easy to look at our country with political blinders and think that deporting illegal aliens is going to solve all of the economic difficulties. Americans (and yes I am an American), tend to blame everyone else for their difficulties. It's the easiest thing to do. You blame the aliens, the liberals, whoever, but there are skeletons in the closet of every ethnic group and most certainly every political group.

Amo, you are a funny guy. I bet your still butt hurt that The Maverick lost to the "black guy". What are you guys doing, forming a militia with pitchforks and nooses? You and the rest of the teabaggers. What a joke.

"Well, considering post after post you demonstrate a basic lack of economics, I will stick with my thought process.

It also does not matter if you have patrons. The reason they have patrons is they sell the product cheap. Cheap labor keeps products cheap. It is basic economics. 9th grade stuff. If you don't have a) cheap labor and b) the labor to run the establishment, you are not going to be in business."

How can it not matter if you don't have patrons? So what you're saying is that I can open a factory, whatever, hire a bunch of illegals at an hourly wage less than minimum wage, and put out a product that no one buys and stay in business? How exactly is that possible? Toyota or Ford do not have cheap labor, but they are both in business and in the case of Ford, has been for over a century. You ever been to one of those fast food joints a little bit later in the evening? They definitely don't have enough labor to run the establishment, yet when I drive by there day after day, and contradictory to your post, they are still open.

Here's something I found interesting (I can post the link if anyone is interested in reading the whole report):

"Using this sort of analysis, we cannot say with much conviction whether the aggregate impact of immigration on the U.S. economy is positive or negative. What available evidence does suggest is that the total impact is small.
When considering reforms to U.S. immigration policy, it is not the total effect of immigration on the U.S. economy that matters but the impact of the immigrants who would be affected by the changes currently being considered in U.S. admission and enforcement policies. The immigrants that account for the negative fiscal impact of immigration in California and the United States as a whole are primarily individuals with low skill levels. This group includes legal immigrants (most of whom presumably entered the country on family-based immigration visas) and illegal immigrants. The Center for Immigration Studies (CIS), a think tank that advocates reducing immigration, has recently applied the NRC methodology to estimate the fiscal impact of illegal immigration. The CIS finds that in 2002 illegal immigrants on net received $10 billion more in government benefits than they paid in taxes, a value equal to 0.1 percent of U.S. GDP in that year. With unauthorized immigrants accounting for 5 percent of the U.S. labor force, U.S. residents would receive a surplus from illegal immigration of about 0.03 percent of GDP. Combining these two numbers, it appears that as of 2002 illegal immigration caused an annual income loss of 0.07 percent of U.S. GDP. Again, given the uncertainties surrounding this sort of calculation, one could not say with much confidence that this impact is statistically distinguishable from zero.
The net economic impact of immigration on the U.S. economy appears to be modest. Available evidence suggests that the immigration of high-skilled individuals has a small positive impact on the incomes of U.S. residents, while the arrival of low-skilled immigrants, either legal or illegal, has a small negative impact. Given that the estimates in question require strong assumptions and in the end are only a fraction of a percent of U.S. GDP, one cannot say that they differ significantly from zero. For the U.S. economy, immigration appears to be more or less a wash."

Jeremy,
Graduated with a 3.8 GPA with 2 degrees (BA in Finance and BS in Real Estate) in 4 years and was in the "Real World" by the time I was 21. And yes, I partied a ton too! I was merely commenting on your lack of knowledge in basic economics. Mathematics does not equal Economics.

Neither you or Delta have pointed out where my knowledge is flawed. I don't claim to be an economic expert, but I can identify another definite hole in Delta's logic based on his statement:

"Cheap labor keeps products cheap."

Most, if not all of Nike's products are made overseas. Let's focus on their athletic shoes. I guarantee there is less in labor costs for Nike as opposed to American-based New Balance, yet they are almost identical in price, and in many cases the NIkes are more expensive. Yes, I understand Nike spends more on marketing, but I would also guess that their sales are much greater than NB. I think that I saw that one particular model of a Nike costs less than a few dollars to make, yet sales for over 100.00. Isn't that a valid counterexample to Delta's argument? Isn't price based more on the law of supply and demand? Again, I am not an economic expert (nor am I that overly versed in that area), but I think that this is pretty cut and dry and I encourage you to point out to me where I am wrong. To me, cheaper labor, simply means bigger profits for the company.

Jeremy, you are once again demonstrating that there is no talking common sense with a liberal.

Those numbers are a bit old, Jeremy. I'm sure you can double all of those by now. If it is a wash, which is still not fine in my book because they are here ILLEGALLY, the few bad apples that are killing ranchers at the border and killing cops in my state make a beautiful case to deport them all. If they want US citizenship go through the proper channels. I can't walk into any other country in the world without papers and make money under the table, not pay taxes in that country and expect not to get at least deported. Why do we let people do that here? I think I know why, but I want to hear it from you.

Not butt hurt at all, and if you are inferring that I am a racist, well then if you ever do come to AZ I've got a size 12 1/2 C ready to lodge up your A$$!

Those numbers argue that the effect may be zero. If I double zero, I get zero.

I was not inferring that you are racist. I was inferring that the president, well, is a black guy.

I have never stated that I was pro-illegal immigration. I am simply reminding you guys of Newton's Third Law.