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Old     (Chaos)      Join Date: Apr 2010       12-09-2014, 9:15 AM Reply   
I suppose Centurion Boats has turned tail in some peoples minds and decided that they need a 'surf system' available beyond their 'hull' and other peripherals. Based on the video release, the new 'Quick' system seems to do what it is intended to do, if it is designed to allow for a relatively quick side to side transfer of a rideable wake.

However my initial thought in looking that these plates/flaps that appear to be a finished product complete with emblems and marking, is that they are remarkably flat, lacking any creases/curvature, or supports beyond a center stringer or arm. The curved outline of the flap could be argued as deflecting or lessening the force of the water on the plate, however, I would suspect the current arrangement, including the plate design and the seemingly inadequate hinge system will not hold up to the abusive forces that will be applied to this apparatus in use. I could be completely wrong as well. Looking forward to seeing more information on this accessory.

Your thoughts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoPzyK73gXY
Attached Images
  
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-09-2014, 9:39 AM Reply   
dumbo ears.

Wave(s) look good tho.
Old     (tonyv420)      Join Date: Jul 2007       12-09-2014, 9:42 AM Reply   
I think it needs a full length piano hinge on this. The plate looks strong, but the hinges are weak sauce....
Old     (hp_inc)      Join Date: Jul 2007       12-09-2014, 9:48 AM Reply   
But I thought Centurions didn't need "surf systems". ;-) Just playing.
Old     (hp_inc)      Join Date: Jul 2007       12-09-2014, 9:49 AM Reply   
Much like Tige didn't need ballast. ;-)
Old     (trayson)      Join Date: May 2013 Location: Vancouver WA       12-09-2014, 10:37 AM Reply   
Centurions had a "wing" last year. So this is just modifying it. they also had their center mounted cats fin to adjust the convergence of the waves from the center of the boat rather than the rear...

Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-09-2014, 11:49 AM Reply   
does this leave Tige as the last "we don't need no stinking surf system***" manufacturer?

Where surf system is defined as a product that allows on the fly transfers.
Old     (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       12-09-2014, 12:14 PM Reply   
Does that mean the boat won't list as much? The FS33 I saw, listed HARD. Made a good wake, but it took a lot of list.
Old     (Pad1Tai)      Join Date: Jan 2013       12-09-2014, 12:49 PM Reply   
I believe Tige put all their eggs in the rider remote control system instead of a side to side switch technology..
Old     (AZShreds)      Join Date: Aug 2014       12-09-2014, 2:10 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by trayson View Post
Centurions had a "wing" last year. So this is just modifying it. they also had their center mounted cats fin to adjust the convergence of the waves from the center of the boat rather than the rear...



I think "modify" is used very loosely there.. Is it also custom?

This is not a modification to a wing plate..this is a surf system.

I am sure contests will flow much faster given driver does not have to jump in and out of boats anymore for goofy/regular riders. This is where the Nautique, Supra, Mastercraft, and others have showed their dominance in this new advanced technology.. It's 2014 no one needs to be sitting side ways anymore.

There is 1 contest boat, Not 2. The confusion of Goofy/Regular rider up-next is completely thrown out..and the judges don't need to see a chiropractor on Monday to work out the kinks from being slammed (listed) all day. Fuel sponsor $ is cut in half.. the list goes on.. Although, Rag Boy did have a pretty sweet setup at WSS Shredfest.. his system is pretty neat.
Old     (Chaos)      Join Date: Apr 2010       12-09-2014, 2:45 PM Reply   
Hard to tell for sure because the video is clearly a person holding a camera of sorts, but it seems listed some, and definitely has that side switching lurch typical of these plate systems.
Old     (hp_inc)      Join Date: Jul 2007       12-09-2014, 3:40 PM Reply   
My guess is that there is enough of a customer base requesting that the boats be able to surf without listing. Perhaps customers are tired of having to run their boat at 20 degrees to surf. Whether or not the boat needed it is not what I see to be the issue. I would bet soon enough all manufacturers will be running something similar just because that is what the customer wants, until the next best thing comes out, like the hover board from "Back to the Future". ;-)
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-09-2014, 3:57 PM Reply   
how can a plate that big not create enough lift to tip a notoriously tippy deep v hull over? Seems like a quick switch listing aid. I don't see how the boat possibly runs flat.
Old     (mo_scrilla)      Join Date: Jun 2004       12-10-2014, 10:31 AM Reply   
Can this be bought as an add on , or is it only on new boats?
Old     (Mrusso)      Join Date: Sep 2013       12-10-2014, 12:45 PM Reply   
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndoggy View Post
how can a plate that big not create enough lift to tip a notoriously tippy deep v hull over? Seems like a quick switch listing aid. I don't see how the boat possibly runs flat.
I don't think the boat will run totally flat for the reasons you mentioned, however, the boat is "weighted evenly" (this is not unlike an MC, Supra, etc.) Just watch the video, you can see the slight list, particularly when it changes sides. Additionally, the way the CATS system crabs the boat tends to lean the boat slightly as well. All in all, yes you'll have a slight list but no where near the list of a boat with standard weighting, and not enough to be very noticeable/uncomfortable.
This is about the fact that Centurion needed to get after the transfer. This was the only thing they didn't have covered, and this device has now made that available. We know what the boat does without it, the only thing it lacked was the ability to transfer. Should probably have just called it a transfer system rather than a surf system!
Old     (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       12-10-2014, 1:39 PM Reply   
@azshreds Our system allowed us to switch to a dialed wake, without testing. Normally, on any switch, you have to test once you switch to see if wake is the same as it was when dialed. This is one of the primary reasons for 2 boats. Even if you can go side to side, can it be done and stay as dialed all day? That was the hard part that required special software that we wrote and special sensors and lots of testing.

It allowed us to go side to side as fast or faster as using 2 boats. Even with a switching system, the testing/dial issue I think still exists.

The other issue is that every switching boat used a comp level is always listed to some degree, to clean up wake, create the right shape, etc. I haven't seen a boat yet, but I am sure someone will figure it out, that is BEST when weighted flat.

Last edited by ragboy; 12-10-2014 at 1:41 PM. Reason: typo
Old     (Chaos)      Join Date: Apr 2010       12-10-2014, 4:15 PM Reply   
There will always be 2 contest boats. One primary and one back up. Rarely does a contest go off without some boat issue. As far as transfers go, these have been done almost as long as people have been riding behind the boat, they are not part of contests for many reason, not just because up until recently it was impractical. The only way it will become a part of the contest norm is if organizers artificially promote it. It will not happen organically anytime soon, in my opinion. Serious competitive riders will not risk falls and run time just to transfer and possibly do a few backside tricks.

Much as Robert said, in my experience at least, the equally weighted boats with tabs/flaps/plates produce a better surf wake listed. The norm is for people, especially salesmen is to say 90% (a magical, unquantifiable notion) of the customers do not want to list their boat, but in my experience, every single person that has bought a 'surf system' boat has chosen to add additional ballast and plumbing to weight it out. I live in possibly the biggest wakesurfing area in the world, or at least one of the biggest pockets, but I am sure the opposite is also true. I am sure there are plenty of people happy with their stock system and ballast.

I merely feel, Fineline should consider beefing up the hinge system and welds on the plates. Hate to see one of these fly off.

Nick
Old     (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       12-10-2014, 5:19 PM Reply   
I think everyone that enjoys wakesurfing, over time will want to make a better and better wake also, so they may be ok with stock or flat at first, but most will do what they can to make it better.

@nick I agree their has to be a backup boat, but it doesn't have to be used. It is the hours that depreciate it so much. We worked hard to have a wake that worked with just our sacks and no lead, just our switching system. Although, if I remember correctly we did have a 400 lb sac to allow us to compensate for lost fuel throughout the day. You would probably know better, you were in the boat all day!

I think we needed the backup boat for a bit at WWS, but not at all for the WCO. Part of this effort we did was to try to reduce the cost of events. If only one boat needs to get hammered, that is a benefit.
Old     (Chaos)      Join Date: Apr 2010       12-10-2014, 5:24 PM Reply   
Your son would know best, I am just on the boat for sarcastic commentary and giggles.
Old     (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       12-10-2014, 5:28 PM Reply   
LOL, too funny. RJ is out of school now and I am blessed that he works with me and enjoys it, at least he says he enjoys it. So he is sitting next to me today and just out of the blue says, I miss Nick. I think someone giggled or something and it made him think of you. He just missed the crazy memories of being in the boat all day with you guys and your laugh.

If you haven't heard Nick laugh, its a must. Good times.
Old     (AZShreds)      Join Date: Aug 2014       12-10-2014, 6:51 PM Reply   
Our team ran (1) Nautique G23 for the 2nd Annual Arizona Wakesurf Open at Lake Pleasant loaded with a total of 4500lbs in the boat. We didn't plan to have a 2nd "in case" boat, although we did have a G21 in the slip that stays at the lake at the time, If all else failed.. we could have used it. The G23 ran perfect all day, with only an extra 20 gallon drink at half time.

I personally setup the boat and made sure it surfed side-to-side without having to do any kind of filling/draining whatsoever as I would be handing over the Driver seat to an old friend who drove from California last minute to drive the contest as soon as he got there. We ran NCRS 3/ NSS 1. This was a really universal wave that both Skim/Surf style could work with. Not too tall for the Skim riders, and plenty of ramp/length for the surf style guys.

At the push of a button, an awesome wave was put out side-to-side. Judges sat on surf-side of course. @ragboy.. A boat that is weighted evenly.. and then judges are added to surf-side. Is this boat now "listed" because there is now atleast 4-500lbs extra on surf side? The extra 4 people on surf side definitely made the wave that much better. This is one thought that has kind of interested me. I guess my question is.. Will any boat ever be "even" in contest? Opinions?

Our demo G21 I preferred to ride Stock Full/400# surf side to make the boat think I brought friends with me
Old     (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       12-10-2014, 7:03 PM Reply   
Its funny, I was thinking about that "definition" after I posted. And of course, its whatever matters to the buyer, not what I think. When I say, weighted flat, at least in the above post, I mean weighted with the ability for the rider to switch from side to side without anyone in the boat having to move, or weight needing to be adjusted. I have been in Nautiques, Malibus, and Axis, and RJ could add a few more, that were weighted FLAT like that. The G23 probably made the best FLAT wake by that definition, but it was better with some list.

I don't think a boat is LESS of a wakesurf boat because it is better with a bit of list, to get that out of the way. The thing I think people should realize is that all of these devices are marketed for that instant switch and crossover which is cool and fine, but so far I have not seen a FLAT weighted boat that can crossover like that, where that setup was its best setup, and a step further would be, that usually owners don't ride them flat and so don't take advantage of that crossover benefit.

Again, just my opinion. I will also add this other point. And I may not get a ton of hours in the wake, but I am sure I rival anyone with the hours in the corner, or in the boat while wakesurfing. I would not buy with my own money and boat that is a heavy lister. Most of the deep Vs are like that, and our old 24Ve was like that, etc. The reason for that is that I have experienced a heavy list is not necessary to have a great wake, although it may be on some boats. The comfort of being in a boat that is only listed 10 degrees or less, vs a boat that is listed 15+ degrees is pretty huge. Forget about safety, my neck gets sore after holding my ginormous head up at an angle all day. ;-) I didn't know I would even care until I started experiencing it. Less list is better if you can get a great wake. Flat would probably even be the most comfortable, if it was the best wake.

Again, just my bloviations.
Old     (shawndoggy)      Join Date: Nov 2009       12-11-2014, 5:25 AM Reply   
Rag boy... Look at those giant trim tabs. Look at that deep v hull. I think it's disingenuous for anyone to say that the boat won't list with this system. Of course all that lift on the opposite side is going to tip the boat. It has to, especially on a deep v style hull that wants to tip over one way or the other.

The downward forcing tabs like this may allow equalish weight for quick transferring waves side to side, but I just don't see how they are going to allow a boat to actually run flat while deployed.
Old     (ragboy)      Join Date: Aug 2007       12-11-2014, 5:34 AM Reply   
:-) Yes, they are def big, no doubt. What I mean about flat is how its weighted, assuming those will provide some list, I doubt they will list it anywhere near the way an FS33 lists from the 2 I have seen. They are hard listers IMHO. So much so that when at rest you can see under the hull on the high side. I can't see that those tabs would produce anything like that.

The Nautiques I have been on listed with the NSS to some degree, and when switching you could feel it list a bit one way or the other. The Axis' I have been on, didn't seem to list at all when switching. So I am sure those various devices will produce different degrees of list. My statement previous was regarding how the boat was weighted, say at rest, not whether the device listed it.
Old     (scuba_steve)      Join Date: Oct 2013       12-12-2014, 2:26 PM Reply   
Someone in the marketing team missed this when they did the proof on this photo.




Curious to see some real world reviews from some people not associated with Centurion on this setup.
Old     (fullspeed)      Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Santa Cruz County CA       12-23-2014, 1:46 PM Reply   

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