Anyone seen the new Tundra?

I have an uncle who works for Diamler and there is no doubt that it is a German Company. Even there cars are getting Mercedes influence. If you look at the new sebring you can see it big time.

Buy what is the best for you. If you buy American because it is American and not because it is the best vehicle than dont expect them to make a better product. Buy what is the best and if that is a foreighn truck the Amercian companies will create a better vehicle to compete.

Just some comparisons
GMC Acadia

Acura MDX

Chevy Impala

Honda Accord


Maybe I'm crazy, but to me, the Japanese interiors win hands down.

Im buyin one so there!

Anyone get quotes or order a LTD 4x4 5.7L?

Did you order the CrewMax? I went to my dealer down the street this morning and the only Limited they had was gone for the morning. I'm going back later. The guy here in STL told me that they would have the Crew until May 1.

Im hearing 20-30 days right now from all dealers, I have an A-plan friend. About 45 otd. Loaded to the hilt. I dont need a diesel to tow a boat, or a 27' trailer. And I just got rid of a gas F250 that I had since new for half of what I bought it for. I was tired of 7 mpg.

not limited. but 5.7L 4x4 with leather

is Daimler still selling Chrysler?

Not one word has been mentioned about the cost that the Japs get steel for vs the cost that the american companies must pay, OH but maybe thats the unions fault too!!!!!

Buy an import, Get a passport!!!

Some more interesting news on the topic.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=asB0nQcKHRV8&refer=home

steve, HAHA!! No thats probably our government trying to protect our little car makers. Tariff their steel, right?

At least that what i get out of your post. I could be wrong tho...

You are correct!!!

just imagine how hard the big 3 would get hammered if the playing field was level

You must have misunderstood, the ones getting hammered with the tariffs on the steel are the americans or should I say the big 3.

how can they tariff us? i know we import it, but not from japan or china

The cost of steel was thru the roof last year. is this what you mean?

(Message edited by denverd1 on February 20, 2007)

China.

I work in an industry that uses alot of tube steel. the chinese are buying scrap, taking it back to China, processing it, and importing it back to us cheaper than we could process it here.

The japanese are no doubt importing Chinese steel for their parts, or having many of their parts made in China. They are basically importing sub-assemblies that are put together in American plants. The big 2 (2 remaining American Auto Makers) only recourse is to make parts in Mexico and assemble in the US (NAFTA).

Basically the tariff on imported cars is high, high enough to force them to assemble in the US, which is the only reason they do it, not because they are nice guys or anything. Lower tariff on sub assemblies and parts coming in.

I know some of this first hand from an importer of manufacturing equipment from japan. Like Toyota, their quality is very good and they back it up with top notch service. My company bought some of this machinery. We would have gone American made if there was a comparable product, but there was not, it's specialized stuff and it runs nonstop with minimal down time.

I am not overly concerned with Japan, their economy is in too deep with ours. They will always work for a balance with the US. It's the Chinese, their manipulation of their currency, and continuing efforts to grow at a very fast pace with disregard for working conditions and quality of life. They will suffer a large correction soon, but try to stay away from their goods. I have just dealt with my first project in trying to import Chinese products made to our specifications, it was a disaster on all ends and they jacked the price when it was time to order after the samples were finally approved. I have no confidence in what they do at all and their brokers are sharks.

Toyota did a smart thing to break into the market, and if the power plant and tranny are American made and the truck is American designed, it should be good. Undoubtedly they have done it correctly, but the market will shift again soon with the advent of more diesel engines entering the arena, especially in the half ton market.

The 5.7l will still be hard pressed to pull a boat down the highway and get better than 9-10 mpg with a heavy foot. It's a beefed up half ton, and that is a good thing. All reports say it's a good truck, but not any better than an American half ton in most respects.

nacho, the playing field is heavily tilted to asia, you may not have heard of it but there is a paper called the wall street journal, i advise you to read it sometime

Nick,
You stated "My leather in my Acura is WAY better than than crap I had in my '04 Ford" Acura is Hondas Flagship product, compare it to Ford's Flagship product, Licoln. Licoln wins hands down.

Also, the Accord is Hondas top shelf car, the Impala is not Chevys top shelf car. Compare an Accord to GM Saturn Aura or Pontiac G6. Big difference.

It does?
Note: The Nav's sticker starts at almost $6000 more than the MDX.

2007 Lincoln Navigator

2007 Acura MDX

No one said anything about the Navigator. Accura has nothing that could even breathe in the Navigators face. I was talking about the new MKX. And yes, it is nicer than the Accura any day of the year.

my point was that there is not one steel producer or supplier to impose tariffs.

soupbra, thanks

Nacho,
Federal Governments impose tariffs not steel companies or producers. The tariffs US companies pay to sell products in other contries are imposed by the respective customs & duty agency of each country. The same goes for foreign goods coming in the US.

Flux,
Good eye on the Tundra Commercial. Looks like an older F150 single cab and an F250 crew cab were the work trucks out on location. Thats OK, the Tundra is really more of a city truck. Soccer Dad's drive Ridglines, Titans, and Tundras. Oh oh.

i'm learning a lot today

we are importing from so many countries that there isn't one country (i.e. supplier) to impose them.

Kinda senseless to argue this point when its not a reality... }

(Message edited by denverd1 on February 21, 2007)

nacho, i would quit typing it makes you seem -----
no offense

Victor, no way the MKX is nicer the the MDX. I've looked at both, the features in the Acura are WAY better. Oh, and from what I've seen leather quality is the same in the Honda as the Acura.

I was comparing the Impala because Tyler used that as an example. The stickers on the Accord and the Impala are about the same.

hey soupy, tough sh.t

Wow, Honda does not even bother to upgrade the leather on their re-badged Accura. And we all though these were luxury cars but really they are Hondas with Accura logos.
Licoln MKX creams the MDX hands down. The MDX looks kinda like a mini van.

The MKX and the Ford Edge are two of the ugliest cars I've ever seen. They look like an Aztec with new body panels.

I would take a re-badged Honda over a Lincoln any day of the week. That Town Car is one hot ride!

The seats in that Navigator look like the seats in my dads old conversion van that he had in '84.

Before anyone freaks out, I was just kidding with my last post.

Lincoln all the way. Accuras are for sissys or racer boy wanna be's

Lincolns are what your old man drives!!

But seriously....they are! I think lincoln, I think of something my grandma drives.

Ace, you're 22. You don't belong in a Lincoln.

Honestly, someone brought up interiors between Acura and Lincoln (my boy Victor?). Have a look at those two photos and you can't even compare them both. The Nav is just ugly. Even if it was made on Mars, it would still be ugly.

The Nav interior is plain ugly. Looks like the 80's Lincoln's.

22, that FOOL wishes he was still 22!!!!!! Ha,Ha...... Yo Broseph, holla at ya' boy.....

Mike,
Why do you see way more Navigators than you do the MDX? Again, it is your opinion that the interior is ugly. I think it's awsome!!! Oh yeah, I m not your boy. Who are you Jakco?
Talk about yuppies driving their Accuras. These fools don't even know where their spare is so a pimp Lincoln is out of their reach. Keep pandering to the import companies while I fly past you in my pearl white Navi.

Kraig, I'm not suprised. Your grandma has better taste in cars than you! You could learn something from her!

Hey Sparky, She has better looks than me too!





Bad taste and no style........Damn, I sound like a designer at Ford!!

One day you anti america / japanese industry lovers will pay the price. Lamp, shades, all of you. Who want's to pay the one way ticket to Tokyo for Kraig, Nacho, Mike, and Nick? I am in for some cash to evict them from the USA and, oh yeah, the USA north, Canada

Victor: I take Paypal! I could really use a vacation!

a one way ticket vacation? no returns from riceland.

Ahh you're just bitter because you were wrong about the Toyota Epic and everyone called you out on it.

one more time...

BUY AN IMPORT, GET A PASSPORT!!!

All i know is that toyota has put so much hd parts on a half ton, that hopefully the big three will follow bc half tons these days are kinda pathetic, and i own a chevy 1500.

Has anyone seen the ring gear in the Tundra?!? Holy cow batman!! That thing is huge! It is one beefy truck. And I agree that it has alot of HD parts, now I'm just wondering why the Big 3 haven't done this with their 1/2 tons? It took a Jap truck to do it!



Ok, I stirred the pot. Sorry......

Steve: I have a passport already but thanks for the offer.

Import cars are way ahead of american cars in terms of tech. Just look at gas milage. Who mass produced the first high-bred? Just look at our history of cars, it hasnt been pretty.

One of the biggest cost factors is the insurance and retirement packages of UAW members. Over $1200/car for Ford and GM. Toyota has zero cost because they do not promise to continue medical benefits for life and their retirement plan is cash value. I believe that congress will eventually shift the burden of these cost on to tax payers and bail them out. Delta Airlines ask congress to bail them out then won concessions from the union to delay the problem. Ford sold off Visteon (their number one parts supplier) so they could shed the high labor cost. A Chinaese company is trying to buy them and the union has ask congress to block the sale. Chrystler has a goal of $1000/car cost savings this year by buying parts from china instead of their American (Mopar) suppliers. The problem is not the union, it is global supply and demand with over supply of labor available in China, India, and other places that will deliver quality goods for much less pay and benefits.

Vehicles are like women. Pick one that looks good, take a test drive, if you like it keep it until you can afford a newer model.

P.S. Don't pick on your friends for what they are "driving".

Omega, the American auto history is not pretty? What rice bowl have you been living under. We taught the Japs how to build cars.

Kraig, the reason Toyota and Nissan are having to go HD on their trucks is because they do not have the product spreads the BIG 3 do. They do not offer 3/4 and 1 tons pick ups. They have to try and fit it all in in one truck. Most 1/2 ton buyers do not require all that jack.

Nick, Lincolns are way nicer than Accuras, hands down.

Mike Cannuck, the Toyot Epic was a flop, a junker, and more proof on how Japanese companies always copy the trends Americans start.

(Message edited by skireel on February 26, 2007)

wAKE PRO Are you kidding me? Who developed the first air bag, not us. Whu developed anti locking brakes, not us. Safest cars in the world? Ya not us. We may have invented the car, but German and Japanese inovation have far surpassed the american car. Seat belts in cars? Who invented that? Not us. American cars are always the last to upgrade safety standards. A Lincoln, is just an overpriced Ford.

Omega, you seem to really have something againts this country. Yes, Germany, France, Italy, and Japan based auto companies have developed many great features for cars. The fact of the matter is tha so have US based companies. Features almost all cars use today.
The first V8 and V12 engines. Cadillac and Packard, both Detroit Auto Makers.

First power steering systems, Lincoln, a Detroit auto maker.

First AC system. Cadillac and Packard, both Detroit Auto Makers.

First hydraulic power convertible top. Ford, a Detroit Auto Maker.

The First automated car manufacturing plant. Ford, a Detroit Auto Maker.
A rice bowl just may be your home.

Victor: Funny how the things you listed were inventions from a long long long time ago. Before the Japs were building cars. Seems to me that since the Japanese started building cars they have been ahead of the American car companies. The things that Omega listed are more recent inventions. Give me examples in the past say....30 years where the Americans have come up with something in the auto industry that is now a standard.

WakePro: Copy the trends America starts? No, they address what Americans want because they sell cars here. As for pop culture, yes I would say that the entire world copies us. But don't say that the Japanese copy the Americans when it comes to the Auto industry. Omega gave you prime examples of now industry standard safety features that companies other than American car companies invented. So who is copying who? And as for the HD parts, mark your words. You said that the Japanese companies don't have a HD truck so they have to put those HD parts in one truck. Well, give it time my friend. The 3/4 ton trucks are coming. And when Toyota and Nissan come out with 3/4 and/or 1 ton trucks what will be your reasoning for them putting HD parts on their 1/2 trucks then? The American 1/2 ton trucks most likely will follow in suit. And when they do I will ask you this question: Who's copying who?!?

(Message edited by Kraig on February 26, 2007)

To bring Germany into the fold, I really want a 3-rows-of-seats vehicle that will drive like a car and tow the boat in a pinch. No Japanese or American company will build one. And no, I don't want an SUV, I already have a truck.

The only vehicles made by the US are the new GMC Acadia, which is actually a really well thought out vehicle when I saw it in person (but only tows 5000 lbs, V6 power) and the Acura MDX (again, low tow weight, V6). Put a 4000+ boat and trailer like we have and they would be brutal.

The Audi Q7 might just be the best of both worlds. You can get it with the optional V8 and it will tow 6600lbs. Granted I wouldn't tow my boat all the time with it, but if something happened to my truck and I needed to tow the boat for a bit, it will handle the job just fine. The MPG figure is similar to an SUV (see tahoe, exp, etc) but the performance and ride quality is no contest. Plus the fit and finish is much better and a third row seat that folds flat to boot! Check it out if haven't seen it. Looks like an overgrown station wagon at first but look at it in person. The interior is much like an A6 or A8.....classy. It is worth comparing to an SUV....although the price of the V8 is over 50k. But the GMC loaded up is over 40K, and the Acrua is 48K. I would throw in the Cayenne or Touraeg but they don't have a third seat.

Its not that i dont like america, its just that we wait until there is problem to fix something. I am sorry if i have high standards and that to you is un- american. Maybe i should sell the audi and toyota and buy an el camino. That would make me more american? I just like car manufactures that are keeping up with trends, not falling behind them. Am i saying that i will never drive american, no. I am actually looking at a superduty. But an american car, hell no!!!Truck yes. Once again high standards come into play. I am finished with this topic, the facts make it too unfair.

(Message edited by omega_supreme on February 26, 2007)

(Message edited by omega_supreme on February 26, 2007)

Wow...SOOOOO much heat in these debates. First of all...look at my thread on wakeboarding discussion about made in the U.S.A boards. I don't think this is the same as I was stating there. But I do have to comment after reading some of these. I work in the auto industry for a supplier for FORD, GM, CHRYSLER,DODGE, JEEP, TOYOTA, NISSAN, HONDA, HYUNDAI, VOLKSWAGON ETC ETC. You get the point. Most all their parts come from the same suppliers...example...the 5.7 engine in the Tundra is the same 5.7 as the Dodge Ram...minus the hemispherical head that the Ram posses. That engine comes from Mexico. So Toyota gets parts from the same suppliers. I work in Reseach and Development area of the business. Here is another example: The Honda Ridgeline is the exact same platform and Unibody frame structure as a Honda Accord. Do you want to pull your boat with an Accord? I think what longitivity boils down to is how you take care of it. I have an old 98 caravan. I want something new, but it is hard for me to part with it. It has a 3.3 liter engine with 286,000 miles on it. Only replaced the raditer at the tune of 100 dollars at your local Murrays. Buy a Saturn Outlook or Vue or a Pontiac G6....Honda powerplant...completely. GM is going to be making the new Dodge Ramcharger...you say HUH? Yup....GM is making a Dodge. These cars are going to confuse the hell of of you in the very near future. Soon, you will not know what your getting. The bigger they are the harder they fall. GM experienced this proble. I feel they are on the rebound with quality. They are definitely doing their homework (I am a Mopar fan by the way). Toyota on the other hand is having major recall issues the last two years. The quicker you produce..more room for errors. Two weeks ago..all Toyota Camrys and Solaris have a recall for a steering issue that will lock your wheel while driving. My neighbor has a Lexus (toyota) 330...he is on his thrid engine. The oil turns to jelly..not enough oxygen getting into the engine. One thing I can truly say negatively about the Asian companies....the yen is weak and I think their government is keeping it that way. This gives them a huge advantage when it comes to doing business here. The money does go back to Japan. It does not stay here. But the companies are good at doing business. Their CEO's are not making millions when the company does bad. U.S. companies award CEO's with Millions...like Jack Nassar a few years ago at Ford. Ridiculous...he ruined a company..you pay him millions to leave. This is wrong. But again...read my thread on wakeboards made in U.S. This would increase jobs here. These Chinese are not working on U.S soil.

its interesting that all the die-hard "americans" are driving stuff made in Mexico and Canada.

Nacho....so is true for people driving the Toyota's and Honda's and such. Chances are, you are driving stuff made in Mexico,Canada, Taiwan, Korea, Germany etc. etc. Like I said before.....The Asian companies get their parts from the SAME suppliers. The big difference that is hurting doemestic is quality issues from the past. And the yen is weak, giving the Asian companies an advantage over the domestic brands in doing business in the U.S. And the Asian companies are non-union. It really is political once you dig into the behind the scenes stuff. One true test...and I have seen it first hand. Is at the proving grounds. They hooked a truck to a truck for a tug of war. I saw this done with a domestic vs an asian(not the honda) last year. Domestic ripped the bumper assembly clean off the competition. Racked the box up real bad. It was back to the drawing board. what does this test prove...I have no idea. Just I got the chance to witness it. Mind you that my commuter car is a Honda Accord with 200000 miles on it. I am just telling you the facts. Look at detroit news today on autoinsider. There is an article on why asian manufacturers hurt domestic. It clearly state that Americans have the preception that Toyota and Honda brands are clearly alright to buy because they are made here in America. And that Americans view the Asian product more American than the domestic. The results are conclusive because the use the same parts suppliers that domestic use. It just happens to be the marketing for the asian companies have done really well. Especially focusing on the past performance of the domestics. I believe this is true. Go out and test drive an accord and then immediately test a Saturn Aura. Bet you get the same acceleration and performance from the engine....you should...it is the same exact engine.

scott, good points. my earlier post wasn't really directed at you, but a good discussion. I agree with you on standardized parts, or whatever you want to call it. F/GM/DCX will shake out in the end. Prolly with some mergers, buyouts, etc. maybe some bankruptcy.

One thing that comes to mind is GM. If they fall into bankruptcy or a sell-off, their union contracts will prob not transfer to the buyer. buyer ("former GM") gets the tangibles and rebrands it.

Not sure how far away any of this is, but it will get nasty

Here is an interesting point I just thought of. Who and where is the engine in your boat made? I bet you it is a GM block with PCM parts, or Indmar parts, or Mercruiser parts etc. etc. Again....parts shipped from supplier and then assembled as a puzzle. If it says Vortec...it's belongs to the General. Or LS1 or LT1..then it is a vet engine from GM. If it is a 302...it is a Ford block (which have not been doing marine in last 5 years). Marine engines endure a lot of torcher. Much worst then your car. Proof...look at the RPM's you turn on your boat...Then get in your car and turn the same RPM's...you will make that engine scream! Car engines take more of a pounding in your boat than with it was placed in your auto. With that said.....I have not seen any asian makers supplying engine blocks and such to marine manufacturers. Not trying to be Big pro American and anti Asian. Just want to clarify for the naysayers about the domestic product. U.S. stuff is good too....is what I am saying.

Like I said before, when Toyota puts a few million diesel 1/2 or 3/4 ton pickups on the road, they will be in the game. Right now they are just hitting the 1/2 ton gasser crowd with Nissan cutting a share of the market for these types of trucks. The big three still have their heavy duty market so they don't need put out a truck like that and claim a bit more horse and torque to be competitive.

If you want a powerful truck, you move up to a 3/4 ton with a V-10 or a diesel, which the big 3 already have millions of on the road.

There is a reason that Toyota and Nissan came to the US to engineer these trucks and manufacture the powertrains, because the USA does it best with the heavy duty ••••••••••• and simple.

Where the US fails is when they try to produce budget type products with union labor, not good, not good at all really. Where we excel is at making quality heavy duty products with muscle built on rigid steel frames that can haul 1000's of lbs in all conditions.

Nice though to Toyota and Nissan for competing with the 1/2 tons and raising the bar a bit on those type of trucks. But a truck going over a see-saw pulling a fake trailer ain't gonna sway me. I look closely at what the guys on the construction sites are using, what the guys hauling the big 5th wheel campers all over creation are using, what the ambulances and snow plowers are using, what the cowboy pulling a trailer full of horses is using, and it's not a Toyota or Nissan.

Flux...You area exactly right! My friend works over at Nissan. They are not doing so good right now. He just emailed me the current TSB...which is a service bullentin the dealers get shipped out for things to watch out for. They have some siginifcant quality issues with their truck. They are currently redesigning the truck from the ground up. It will probably not look too much different. For example...the X Terra was completely redesigned from the ground up last year....look at it,,does not look any different. But it is ..new frame, skin, powerplant etc etc. Just got out of a meeting about future business. I must say...the dometics look like the are on the rebound. Especially GM. The product that is coming looks incredible. My dad worked for GM for 30 years and never liked their product. But I showed him what is around the corner. His response...Well it's about damn time! So just a heads up. Autros for 2010....look very interesting. Wati until you see the heavy duty's that Dodge is producing....Incredible. But that is all I can say. So now you guys have an inside source.

The long blocks that Indmar, Volvo, Mercruiser, etal use for our 5.7 liter engines come from Mexico. Built to GM specs in a GM owned facility.

Thanks George....good to know. See you learn something new everyday. Just part of globalization at work. The Mopar Hemi is also built in Mexico. But DCX has rumored to bring it back closer to the assembly plants in the states if price of fuel goes up again. Shipping cost were hurting a lot of companies last year..like shipping engines from Mexico to the midwest. They say it will be over 3 per gallon again this year.

I mentioned this on the wakeboard thread..but I will again here. ALL manufacturers get most of their parts from suppliers. So...Toyota and Ford could have the same fuel pump..the same seat frame etc. etc. As a matter of fact I worked on the new Tundra that just came out. I have seen the truck stripped down. Here are the facts: 80% of the auto is from suppliers. That only leaves 20% that comes from the manufactuer nameplate. Bottom line...you are entititled to your opinion on what you like. But when you say the Tundra is better then the domestics....not true. U.S. trucks are built more durable because they have been doing it longer and know what the customer (you and I expect). Toyota knows when it comes to trucks, they have to step up their game. But this new model is getting really close. Example...the Honda Ridgeline is built on a Accord platform. That does not equal tough truck. They have more homework to do. But what I am truly saying is...it is better to keep the $$$ here to stimulate this economy and keep jobs and innovation here. I see first hand this is a dwindling problem for us.

Scott: The new 5.7 engine from Toyota is the exact same 5.7 engine from DOdge?!? Dodge only wishes! It's a totally different engine. Here is a quote from someone who knows the two engines:

The Tundra is an aluminum block DOHC design. The Dodge is an old tech pushrod motor with and iron block and a completely different design. The bore and stroke aren't even close on them. The idea that there would be the same block on a completely new DOHC design as an old design pushrod motor is crazy.

You can't have it both ways, Scott. They're either the same or they're not. Using the argument that Toyota uses the same parts as Ford so they can't be better but then turning around and saying US trucks are built more durable makes no sense at all.

Besides, even if you ignore the logical fallacy of your argument and propose that "they [US truck makers] have been doing it longer and know what the customer (you and I expect)", I can still provide a counterpoint. US automakers have been making commuter cars for longer than their foreign counterparts but slip into years-long lapses where they apparently have no idea what the customer expects. Just because they're been doing it longer doesn't mean they've been doing it better.

I still stick to my original (way up the post) assertion that a good F150 or Ram can be had at a better value (price for what you get) than the Tundra right now since the Tundra sells at near MSRP and the Ram and F150 tend to sell at far under MSRP. I don't think it's too much to ask of any automaker to give me the best quality for the price I'm paying. Besides, if I were going buy based on loyalty, I'd buy Toyota since they employ a large number of my family and friends.}

(Message edited by hal2814 on February 28, 2007)

I get your point...same parts...let me clarify..I misspoke...SAME PARTS MANUFACTURERS. Not necessarily the same parts. I can evaluate and see first hand an apples to apples comparison. I have worked on the Tundra, Durango, Mustang, Focus, Outlook, F150, Ford GT, Camry, Highlander, Honda Pilot, 2010 Ram,Pacifica, Nitro, Jeep Wrangler and Commander, Nissan X terrea, Altima and the list goes on and on.

The engine.....I have not paid attention recently...I better not open my big mouth first. Toyota must have went with a different engine. But that was not the plan when the program first rolled out.

I guess I am the minority in believeing that American companies can make good product. The preception is accurate in accordance to wallstreet and such on what the majority believe. Most people think American cars are cheap and don't hold up. Thus the continued decline in doemstic. Possibility that Chrysler will be owned by Cheri from China..http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070228/AUTO01/702280342. There is just no support for American made. Our country just gets further and further from ownership. Toyota is positioned to pass GM this year as well. Looks like they have a great marketing strategy compared to the domestics, that is for sure.

Kraig is there any aluminum block marine engines on the market? Just wondering.

Another difference in strategy from Domestic companies to the foreign comapnies is veritcal integration. In the prime Ford, GM, and Chrysler were trying to own everything in the supply chain. Hence Ford owned what we now call Visteon, and GM owned AC/Delco, Delphi. In the past few years to obtain cash and to have more ability to purchase from lower cost foreign part suppliers they had sold or split the units. Ford had to go back and purchase some of the Vistion plants to keep them operating. I believe their long term goal was to use this sell off stragegy to get out of the UAW wage and benefits. Delphi has asked congress to block the purchase by a Chinese company fearing they will close american plants and move production to china. Toyota and other Japanese has focused on developing local independent suppliers. There are 100's of small Japanese owned manufacturing companies in the US that have started up to support the assembly plants.

Scott: To answer your question and also to comment on your earlier post concerning marine engines and who supplies the blocks. You were correct in your earlier post about the blocks on our boats all being from GM and Ford. And you referenced that Ford has not supplied any blocks for about 5 years now. My knowledge in this area is primarily limited to the wakeboarding industry due to that's where my passion is so that's were my interest is.

Now, to answer your question, yes there is an aluminum block engine. It's not being offered anymore to my knowledge. It was the Toyota/Lexus V8. Not sure if it's the i-Force engine or not, but it's the V8 engine that was in the Lexus' and the Land Cruisers. It was the engine in the Toyota Boats when they were being built. It's a fully aluminum block. Block and engine are all Toyota.

You mentioned, in an earlier post, that the engines in our boats take alot more punishment than when they are in our cars. That is true as our cars have transmissions with gears to lower the RPM's. You used that arguement to say how well the American blocks can take abuse and you said that you didn't mean to be anti-asian as your post was trying to say that the American blocks are much better. And I will not disagree that the engines in our boats take alot of abuse and they perform quite well. My Indmar is running strong and I'm sure it will for quite a while. But I would love to hear from some Toyota Epic owners and hear how the engines, aluminum block V8, are holding up to all the abuse.

Who owns a Toyota Epic boat?

Hey guys, here is a great article for some of you that are misinformed on Toyota and how "AMERICAN" they really are.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...&article=11981

Here is just a little tidbit.
Quote:
What's more American?

Some say a Japanese car bolted together in America with a fair amount of U.S. content is more "American" than a U.S.-brand car assembled in Canada or Mexico with some foreign-sourced parts. Nonsense! Ask yourself, again, where are the bulk of the better jobs and where do the profits go? DaimlerChrysler's Chrysler Group, by the way, still qualifies as "American" because it is an entire self-contained car company based in America and employing tens of thousands of Americans at all levels that happens to be owned by a German company, just as Opel is a self-contained German company owned by General Motors.

"Toyota spends huge sums of money promoting the idea that they 'support' 368,000 U.S. jobs," Doyle says, "but those include supplier, dealership and other peripheral jobs. Using the same multiplier, GM supports 1.9 million U.S. jobs and Ford 1.2 million. Toyota also says it builds here most of the vehicles it sells here. That may be its eventual intent, but Automotive News reported that 48 percent of the vehicles Toyota sold here in 2006 were imported.

It is not just about jobs, Foreign compaies pay much less income tax and many of the facilities are still operating on property tax incentives. The new Toyota plant announced in Mississippi this week will not pay property tax for 10 years and will have discounted taxes for another 10 years. In addition the state is giving Toyota nearly $300 million to purchase the land, install utilities, hire and train employees. Sure it will be great for the city of Tupelo and the individuals who get hired but it is a big expense to taxpayers all over the state.

Here is a excerpt from the news relief.
Mississippi House Ways and Means Chairman Percy Watson told the Jackson Clarion-Ledger he expects the legislature to hold a special session this weekend to consider a $298 million bond package for the new Toyota plant.

He said the incentives would include $145.8 million for public infrastructure, $84 million to train Toyota workers and $30 million to train suppliers’ workers. Also included would be a sales tax rebate on equipment.

everything in Shanhai is ON SALE

Wow, amazing how Toyota is getting such a great deal from Mississippi. I wonder why they are doing it? To bring jobs to the area maybe? Mississippi is going to get alot more out of it than meets the eye. And do you think that the Big 3 don't get incentives as well? We, the public, don't know all the dealings that go on between the state and large business. The Big 3 get incentives just like the other automakers. The state of Mississippi made that deal, I don't think they would be doing it if it wasn't benefiting them. And if Mississippi is giving out such a great deal, why didn't one of the Big 3 jump on it and build another plant?

"Here are the facts: 80% of the auto is from suppliers. That only leaves 20% that comes from the manufacturer nameplate."

Are you referring to parts or materials? Big difference! If you referring to materials your point is erelavant!
Scott, please show me the facts.

Kraig, I know every state give and every company receives incentives to add jobs. Chattanooga (my home town) offered Toyota an even larger incentive to come here (according to local politicians) my point is that Toyota sends their profits to Japan and does not pay income tax on their income. Of course Ford and GM are not paying tax because they are not making money. They are also shutting down facilities instead of building new ones leaving communities accross America without jobs or taxes. The south, Tennessee, Kentucky, Mississippi, Alabama, South Carolina, Texas, have large number of jobs from Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, BMW, Nissan. I'm all for free enterprise when the field is level. I don't think the field is level when competing with the China and India. Loosing the middle class manufacturing jobs is going to lower the standard of living for most americans. Some one is going to have to pay for all of the entitlements and war on terror. It also just a matter of time before Ford, GM and the UAW ask for tax payer help on retirment and medical plans of displaced workers.

George gets what I am saying.....GUYS.....I WORK IN THIS INDUSTRY.....for a company that supplies to ALL manufactures. That is the big difference and problem between domestic and asian. Consumer reports...like I said favored asian automakers again today over domestic for this past 2006...They are bought! Plus it is a first 6 month study. What is troubling,.....you look at a 2005 report and then the 2006 report...night and day difference. A lot of the models compared did not change at all (design,power-train etc). So do NOT trust this report.

Attila...answer to your question....That is bumper to bumper my friend. 80% is made by suppliers and 20% is made by the name plate. I am not joking. And that is with all cars. It was the asian auto companies that started this trend years ago. And the domestics adopted it. Like I said...for a couple weeks I worked on the new Tundra. And for a couple weeks, I worked on the altima. And couple weeks I worked on the Jeep Commander. Couple weeks I worked on the Focus. Couple weeks I worked on the 2010 Dodge Ram. The interiors that I worked on are designed and manufactured by my company. So when you get into the Tundra..and go wow I like this interior and then get into the Dodge Ram....man I don't care for this interior. IT COMES FROM THE SAME PLACE. The difference is the companies either approve or disapprove of the design and so forth. Pulling the strings through the whole process. But I will say some companies will throw more money than others at the program. That makes a difference too. But YOU would be surprised which ones throw the most. It is not what you think! so in a nut shell Attila....answer to your question is both. Parts and materials. We get our materials from other suppliers and manufacturers to make the final product for our customer. We get some of our electronics from asian suppliers. Why am I bent out of shape....reread George's string to Kraig. This is very true. How is the free enterprise suppose to work when competition is getting eliminated by unfair trade and practices? That truly is the bottom line.

You didn't provide any factual info Scott... are we supposed to just take your word for it? Did you also design the dash that rattles all day on my Silverado?

I have heard that GM and Ford spend a lot of money lobbying on capital hill and have for decades, so why are the trade practices so stacked against them in your opinion?

I am not advocating anyone to buy a Tundra, I am just not convinced by your long winded posts with very little info.

I don't know about the playing field being level or not. What I do know is that this is a free market enterprise country and that's exactly what is going on. George, you mention that losing middle class manufacturing jobs is going to lower the standard of living for most Americans. Ok. So why are the Big 3 moving their manufacturing jobs out of the US? And let me say again that the Big 3 get incentives just like other auto manufacturing companies. The Unions argument is the only one that I have heard that is hurting the Big 3.

Scott: I totally agree that Consumer Reports is bought in order to favor a product. That is pretty much common knowledge anymore. Whenever a truck is redesigned it is always Truck of the Year for most of them. Also, I'd like to comment on your info about 80% is made by suppliers and 20% by the nameplate and how the Asian commpanies started this and the Domestics adopted it. Who's copying who? I say this in response to someone earlier in this thread saying how the Japanese automakers copy everything the domestics do. Case in point!

And as for where the interiors come from, wow, the Tundra is more American than you think. So it really isn't a foreign truck versus a domestic truck now is it? You are confirming that alot of the money from the foreign automakers does stay right here in America. BTW, who do you work for? I am a little hesitant to believe that all the interiors come from the same place. You've already been wrong on a few items, the engine on the Tundra for example, so I need some more info.

And also tell me how there is any unfair trade practices? You say that you do interiors for both domestics and foreign automakers and that you, an American company, buy materials and electronics from other suppliers and manufacturers and from Asian suppliers. Again, I have not heard any hard evidence that gives the foreign automakers an advantage over the domestics besides the Unions. If anything, I would say that the domestics would have advantages over the foreign automakers. And yes, I've heard the arguments about how Toyota has apparently gotten some tax benefits to build a plant and so on. But you don't think the domestics get these type of benefits offered to them as well? You don't think Mexico cut the domestics some incredible deals to build plants and bring jobs and money into the Mexican economy? Or Canada for that matter? And even the US? Again, we as the general public don't have all the facts of the internal dealings between state/gov't and big business. Or is there someone here that is involved with these dealings that can say for a fact that the US ONLY gives incentives to foreign automakers and not the domestics?

Wow Attila, you pretty much said what I wanted to say but in only three sentences!

I will try to keep this brief. I work for one of many Interior manufacturers. There is Lear, Faurcia (french company), Visteon, and JCI. All Global companies folks. Not all moneys stay in U.S. Depends on program and what location it is done. We have locations around the world. We do the U.S. manufactured auto's. Asian companies do not put their PROFITS into American banks. The yen is weak (their gov keeps it that way) unfair practices = unfair trade. We just moved more jobs to Mexico for making parts. Put 500 people out of a job in the U.S. It is cheaper. Some of those parts will go into Fords, GM, Chrylser, Honda, Toyota etc. We are not the only company that does this practice. AND I NEVER SAID THAT I agree with it. Domestics are moving jobs to try to save money and keep up with the competition on making profits. Which makes wallstreet happy. Asian companies are non union. Thus they like to locate in southern states. That is why you will never see them put up a factory in Michigan. All unions here in MI.
Friend Mark has a Lexus 330 with a annoying sqeek in his dash. He has had it into the dealer four times now. Last time they removed the whole dash. Can't find it. Oh yhea....I drive a HONDA to work everyday. It was my wife's car before we were married. Great car. like I have said many times before........I am not being anti asian...but I wish people would stop being ANTI-AMERICAN. It is about fair trade.

All cars have problems...check NHTSA and their recall section. Like the 06 Tundra's lower balljoint and lighting defect. Dodge has a transfer case problem. etc etc.

ON THE ISSUE WHO IS COPYING WHO.

All companies take in the competitor product and rip it apart to see what they are doing. We do it to other Interior manufacturers. Toyota had a Ram in their Research facility in Ann Arbor stripped down in parts. When I worked at Ford we had a Audi all torn apart taking pictures and documenting them.. Everyone does it...we call that term...benchmarking.