Another school shooting

Originally Posted by racer808

I can agree with that. The only issue with "mental health" is what, who determines the level of crazy? Here in CO if you get a MMJ card you can no longer get a conceal carry. I do agree the age limit needs to be raised. I would also suggest X amount of hours in fire arm training to get a permit. Would also give an instructor time working with the student to see what if anything stands out about that person & file a report or decline to pass them.

So at 18 you can serve in the military but can't buy a gun? Good luck with that one.

People kill. Always have, always will. They'll use a gun, a truck, an explosive, or whatever it takes.

Create all the gun laws you want. Good guys will have to give their guns up, and the criminals will keep them. Now you just have more soft targets that can't fight back and that's the problem today. Good people follow the laws and leave their guns at home and shooters know that no one can stop them.

I'm for armed guards at schools and armed school staff and more security. Right now, anyone can walk onto my kids middle school campus with a rifle and there are no gates or guards to stop them. Absolutely no security for the most precious and vulnerable people. No gun law will stop this.

Originally Posted by jarrod

So at 18 you can serve in the military but can't buy a gun? Good luck with that one. .

At 18 you can't buy a beer but you can buy a gun? how does that make any sense?

Originally Posted by jarrod

People kill. Always have, always will. They'll use a gun, a truck, an explosive, or whatever it takes.

But nothing is as effective as a gun. Try to drive a trunk into an elementary school. You will be lucky to crush one or two people. Try to make a bomb in your garage, 50/50 chance you will blow yourself up. But get a gun point and shoot, my grandmother can do that.

Originally Posted by jarrod

Create all the gun laws you want. Good guys will have to give their guns up, and the criminals will keep them.

Create a buy back program for guns and criminals will sell their guns to buy crack. Most criminals aren't great long term planners as it turns out.

If you have to access a black market to buy guns it will be MUCH harder for the kind of mentally unstable people that shoot up the public to get one. If you act paranoid, people don't want to talk to you about illegal stuff. You can't just walk around the docks shouting "GUNs, I wanna buy some GUNS, Anyone got some guns"

Originally Posted by jarrod

Now you just have more soft targets that can't fight back and that's the problem today. Good people follow the laws and leave their guns at home and shooters know that no one can stop them.

This is such a pile of horse *****. All you gun owners think that your rambo but the reality is if there is a problem you run for the hills like everyone that isn't packing. The amount of bad guys with guns that are stopped by good guys with guns is statistically negligible.

Originally Posted by jarrod

I'm for armed guards at schools and armed school staff and more security. Right now, anyone can walk onto my kids middle school campus with a rifle and there are no gates or guards to stop them. Absolutely no security for the most precious and vulnerable people. No gun law will stop this.

Having traveled to Algeria, I can say for a fact that walking through dozens of metal detectors to get to a conference room does NOT make a person feel safer. You'd rather our kids go to school in a prison than not be able to play with the toys that make you think you have a bigger penis.

Originally Posted by plhorn

At 18 you can't buy a beer but you can buy a gun? how does that make any sense?

-Okay change the law to 21. So now he has a change of heart and decides not to kill people? You think he can't get a gun because the gun shop won't sell him one?

But nothing is as effective as a gun. Try to drive a trunk into an elementary school. You will be lucky to crush one or two people. Try to make a bomb in your garage, 50/50 chance you will blow yourself up. But get a gun point and shoot, my grandmother can do that.

- Yeah? Every morning I drop off my child at school where hundreds of kids are crossing the street. And very recently, trucks have been used for mass murders. The kid decided he was going to kill people and existing laws didn't stop him. Do you think he would have respected the one that said he couldn't have a gun? To the point about your grandmother.....people need to be armed in schools.

Create a buy back program for guns and criminals will sell their guns to buy crack. Most criminals aren't great long term planners as it turns out.

-We've had many gun buy back programs. People are still getting murdered everyday so I guess you're theory is isn't a good one. Criminals don't give up their guns. Only naive people do, that believe that good people surrendering guns will somehow stop crime.

If you have to access a black market to buy guns it will be MUCH harder for the kind of mentally unstable people that shoot up the public to get one. If you act paranoid, people don't want to talk to you about illegal stuff. You can't just walk around the docks shouting "GUNs, I wanna buy some GUNS, Anyone got some guns"

-what? You're the emotional type aren't you?

This is such a pile of horse *****. All you gun owners think that your rambo but the reality is if there is a problem you run for the hills like everyone that isn't packing. The amount of bad guys with guns that are stopped by good guys with guns is statistically negligible.

-Do you have something to back this up or are you just being a dick? You won't see it on the main stream news but often, a good guy stops a crime legally with a gun, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Statistically, you're right...it doesn't happen enough. You know why? Because gun laws make it illegal to carry for most. There's your flawed logic, kid.

I live next to a school and if I heard shots I'd be there in seconds to help. I would give my life to stop a public slaying of children. I carry every day, I train nearly every weekend, and if something happened in my presence I would defend myself against a shooter which makes everyone in that public place safer as a result. You and your family included. This is absolutely asinine. You would be lucky to have someone carrying in your presence if something were to happen in a public place with you or your loved ones present. Tell me you'd prefer to have not a single good guy armed in the movie theater if you're there when a lunatic opens fire. Tell me you prefer to have not a single person in the room fighting back.

Having traveled to Algeria, I can say for a fact that walking through dozens of metal detectors to get to a conference room does NOT make a person feel safer. You'd rather our kids go to school in a prison than not be able to play with the toys that make you think you have a bigger penis.

-First of all, this is not Algeria. And second, I never suggested schools be like a prison. I'm suggesting having people armed at schools so that if something happens, people can respond and distract a shooter in seconds instead of minutes after the shooter has run out of ammo. Or better yet, someone sees a shooter trying to conceal something larger like a rifle. But if schools were locked down like a prison, I supposed having a child that lives to play with those toys is better than having a dead child.

I don't get the penis comment, but again I think you're probably the angry liberal type that gets emotional easily.

Originally Posted by plhorn

Create a buy back program for guns and criminals will sell their guns to buy crack. Most criminals aren't great long term planners as it turns out.

For 300 million guns? who's going to pay for them?

regardless, its pretty majorly retarded to assume all criminals would sell their guns if given the chance.

Originally Posted by jarrod

So at 18 you can serve in the military but can't buy a gun? Good luck with that one.

People kill. Always have, always will. They'll use a gun, a truck, an explosive, or whatever it takes.

Create all the gun laws you want. Good guys will have to give their guns up, and the criminals will keep them. Now you just have more soft targets that can't fight back and that's the problem today. Good people follow the laws and leave their guns at home and shooters know that no one can stop them.

I'm for armed guards at schools and armed school staff and more security. Right now, anyone can walk onto my kids middle school campus with a rifle and there are no gates or guards to stop them. Absolutely no security for the most precious and vulnerable people. No gun law will stop this.

Schools cannot afford to hire enough teachers to maintain appropriate staffing or even books for students, yet you seem they can afford "armed guards"?

Teachers are required to pay to have an insurance policy should a student get injured in their classroom. How much do you think the policy would increase if the teacher were arming themselves in the classroom?

The simple fact is there are too many guns in this country. That is why we have so many mass shootings each year. It's basic math. The more guns in a society = more shootings in a society. Yet, some people think to making guns more readily available makes everyone safer. It's ridiculous logic.

Originally Posted by psudy

I did just read the kid went out and bought an AR-15 at 18 years old. I think that is too young to be able to purchase such gun, and I would support putting heavy restrictions/background/mental checks on purchasing them.

You can sign up to join the military at 18. Is that too young to defend your country? Are you going to send the 18 year old military personnel in the field with knives to fight against soldiers with guns? Are you going to police offices wait till that magical age to have a gun with their badge? I really don't believe "any" gun law would have "any effect on the number of school shootings. I do however believe armed guards will minimize the numbers of victims and the number of occurrences. It would be the only logical proactive change to the status quo.

So 18 isnt old enough to buy a beer but old enough to buy an AK. Criminally stupid.

Originally Posted by plhorn

So 18 isnt old enough to buy a beer but old enough to buy an AK. Criminally stupid.

Lol Don't even bring it up, NRA's solution would be to lower the drinking age. Ha ha.

Ready access to guns has no effect on gun violence. Say it three times while looking in the mirror or the NRA will pay you a visit. Reverse candyman.

Originally Posted by cwb4me

You can sign up to join the military at 18. Is that too young to defend your country? Are you going to send the 18 year old military personnel in the field with knives to fight against soldiers with guns? Are you going to police offices wait till that magical age to have a gun with their badge? I really don't believe "any" gun law would have "any effect on the number of school shootings. I do however believe armed guards will minimize the numbers of victims and the number of occurrences. It would be the only logical proactive change to the status quo.

Joining the military or a police force is entirely different than being able to walk into a store and buy an AR 15. If you can't see the difference there is no point in discussing it.

Originally Posted by psudy

Joining the military or a police force is entirely different than being able to walk into a store and buy an AR 15. If you can't see the difference there is no point in discussing it.

putting armed guards at all schools is an excellent choice to defend our kids NOW. If you can't see the difference between that & trying to round up guns there is no point in discussing it.

Originally Posted by racer808

putting armed guards at all schools is an excellent choice to defend our kids NOW. If you can't see the difference between that & trying to round up guns there is no point in discussing it.

I am not against armed guards(I was the one talking about training and arming a few teachers). I am also not for rounding up all the guns either. However, I am for making it more difficult to purchase certain types of guns. There is no reason someone can't jump through hoops to purchase a gun.

Originally Posted by cwb4me

You can sign up to join the military at 18. Is that too young to defend your country? Are you going to send the 18 year old military personnel in the field with knives to fight against soldiers with guns? Are you going to police offices wait till that magical age to have a gun with their badge? I really don't believe "any" gun law would have "any effect on the number of school shootings. I do however believe armed guards will minimize the numbers of victims and the number of occurrences. It would be the only logical proactive change to the status quo.

Last I checked, military service wasn't "bring your own gun."

We let those same 18 year old infantrymen handle grenades too. Why can't I buy one of them at walmart?

Originally Posted by shawndoggy

We let those same 18 year old infantrymen handle grenades too. Why can't I buy one of them at walmart?

Cause you bleeding heart liberals won't let us

Originally Posted by racer808

Cause you bleeding heart liberals won't let us

I dunno? Does the constitution not extend to grenades? Second says right to bear arms, not right to bear firearms. Firearms are definitely included within the definition of arms covered by the 2nd. Why isn't the grenade lobby advocating for grenades too?

Authority: https://scholar.google.com/scholar_c...=1&oi=scholarr

"Before addressing the verbs "keep" and "bear," we interpret their object: "Arms." The 18th-century meaning is no different from the meaning today. The 1773 edition of Samuel Johnson's dictionary defined "arms" as "[w]eapons of offence, or armour of defence." 1 Dictionary of the English Language 106 (4th ed.) (reprinted 1978) (hereinafter Johnson). Timothy Cunningham's important 1771 legal dictionary defined "arms" as "any thing that a man wears for his defence, or takes into his hands, or useth in wrath to cast at or strike another." 1 A New and Complete Law Dictionary; see also N. Webster, American Dictionary of the English Language (1828) (reprinted 1989) (hereinafter Webster) (similar)."

Originally Posted by racer808

Cause you bleeding heart liberals won't let us

You got that right. But it just goes to show how the implication can distort the truth.

Not opposed to cops on site to a point. We have deputized school police in our school district. There’s a cop on staff at each HS and a roving group of backup officers. Seems like a good system. The cops are cops but are also members of the staff who interact with the kids. Mostly I think they deal with arresting kids caught at school smoking weed and whatnot.

Didn’t stop a middle school teacher from being gunned down a few years back tho.

I believe someone else posted something similar in the Vegas thread. Why does it seem so hard to understand that it's a numbers game? The US has a high number of weapons available and some states make it way too easy to get a hold of these firearms. Face it, your beloved 2nd amendment works against you. You have the highest amount of publicly owned firearms in the world even if they are purchased legally it still leaves another higher than normal amount of those guns to then end up in the wrong hands whether stolen or someone that decides they are now angry.

Some of the issues can never really be resolved nor do I have the answers but it's not hard to figure out that with the overall amount of guns in the US you are going to have an above average amount of gun related deaths.

KS has insane gun laws. You can conceal carry here and don't even need a permit. One of the dumbest things I have every seen passed. You basically have to think everyone around you is armed.

^^^Easy guys, the NRA is not going to appreciate you snowflakes calling for tighter gun laws.
You know what they are going to say....if you are old enough to join the military and fight for the country.....

Re how easy a CC in KS...
Right now they are trying to make it legal...if you have a concealed carry permit in your state it will apply to any state you travel to. Not a good idea IMO. Hopefully this event will help them make the correct decision.

Originally Posted by 95sn

^^^Easy guys, the NRA is not going to appreciate you snowflakes calling for tighter gun laws.
You know what they are going to say....if you are old enough to join the military and fight for the country.....

Re how easy a CC in KS...
Right now they are trying to make it legal...if you have a concealed carry permit in your state it will apply to any state you travel to. Not a good idea IMO. Hopefully this event will help them make the correct decision.

No. You do not need a permit to CC in KS. I went through the process and got licenced right before they changed the law that allows ANYONE to do it permit free. With my permit I can carry in other states that recognize it. Most do but there are a few that don't(CA, MA, etc.).

Originally Posted by psudy

No. You do not need a permit to CC in KS. I went through the process and got licenced right before they changed the law that allows ANYONE to do it permit free. With my permit I can carry in other states that recognize it. Most do but there are a few that don't(CA, MA, etc.).

This sounds so crazy to me. Most likely because I live in CA. Here, the ONLY people with guns are cops, on or off duty. Citizens here cant get CC permits without a REALLY REALLY good reason. Out of over 10 million people, 197 permits.
http://www.breitbart.com/california/...ion-residents/

F*ck the NRA. They care about nothing but selling more guns. Time for a 2nd amendment advocacy org that is for responsible/educated gun ownership.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/w...imes&smtyp=cur



"In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over." — Dan Hodges.

I'd say it has much more to do with "there are no easy answers". It's rather simpleton to just go right to "we must ban guns". It isn't going to happen, so with that I'd say everyone should start looking for answers that could happen & would happen. Like armed guards. Ain't anyone ever hear of a mass shooting anywhere but soft targets, specifically where guns are not allowed.

Republican lawmaker says if you want congress to take action on this issue then vote republicans out of office.

http://thehill.com/homenews/media/37...mass-shootings

Originally Posted by pesos

Republican lawmaker says if you want congress to take action on this issue then vote republicans out of office.

http://thehill.com/homenews/media/37...mass-shootings

These hypocrite Democrats have no right to take the high ground, come up with a coherent solution or shut up!

Originally Posted by ralph

These hypocrite Democrats have no right to take the high ground, come up with a coherent solution or shut up!

Coherent solution: gun control.

Now where is your solution or shut up.

Originally Posted by plhorn

Coherent solution: gun control.

Now where is your solution or shut up.

Lol, I've detailed my thoughts on the solution a number of times already.

My point is the democrats had 8 years to do something to improve the issue and have failed to do so, it's a bit rich to now say, vote us in we will fix it, trust us, when they give no indication of how they will fix it

Again, they didn’t say that - a republican did. But you are not wrong about their ineffectiveness.

As I posted above, it’s simple math. More guns means more shootings.

Originally Posted by ralph

Lol, I've detailed my thoughts on the solution a number of times already.

My point is the democrats had 8 years to do something to improve the issue and have failed to do so, it's a bit rich to now say, vote us in we will fix it, trust us, when they give no indication of how they will fix it

embarrassingly this is true. As Racer also humorously pointed out. Obama just did stuff to make it look like they were doing something. At the same time R's and the NRA are a force. There is no one answer or anything that will fix it overnight. This is a L O N G fix.

^^^Ouch Racer. The weed must be really good in Colorado.

If the left enforces gun laws like they enforce immigration laws we really don’t have much to worry about

Originally Posted by racer808

If the left enforces gun laws like they enforce immigration laws we really don’t have much to worry about

Hey man. You're not off the hook. You accused him of being ANTIFA or a left-wing puppet and you said he was "a product of his environment". Now the evidence is out there he was a right-winger, Trump-supporter. Is he still a "product of his environment"? Yes or No.

Originally Posted by wake77

Hey man. You're not off the hook. You accused him of being ANTIFA or a left-wing puppet and you said he was "a product of his environment". Now the evidence is out there he was a right-winger, Trump-supporter. Is he still a "product of his environment"? Yes or No.

Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/new...say/341751002/

That's a nice MAGA shirt he has on


how to host images

Originally Posted by racer808

Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?

Lol, that's not Cruz fool

Originally Posted by racer808

Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/new...say/341751002/

That's a nice MAGA shirt he has on


how to host images

Racer are you off your meds bro? You usually make some semblance of sense but if you think that is Cruz you needs your eyes checked.

MAGA
https://www.snopes.com/did-shooters-...ture-maga-hat/

Originally Posted by racer808

Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?

https://www.snopes.com/florida-shooter-antifa-shirt/

Originally Posted by racer808

Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/new...say/341751002/

That's a nice MAGA shirt he has on


how to host images

You want to try again?

One thing I noticed about you right-wingers is you refuse to admit when you are wrong.

Ralph I think you misread. It was a republican congressman who said vote out republicans. He also had some suggestions for democrats on what to do once the nra puppets were out.

Originally Posted by pesos

Ralph I think you misread. It was a republican congressman who said vote out republicans. He also had some suggestions for democrats on what to do once the nra puppets were out.

Oh. Lol, yes i misread. Good for him, nice to see a politician with a shred of decency.

I guess $3.3m buys a lot of thoughts and prayers aye Rubio?

Originally Posted by wake77

Since most of them commit suicide before being apprehended, I'd say most wouldn't give it a second thought.

But thanks for your useless advice. If this were 17 cops that were murdered by an Islamic terrorist, you and the kooky right would be ready to wage war on all Muslims. But since it's just 17 kids and educators and you're worried that some may want it to become a bit more difficult to own a gun, you don't give a $h!t.

Hey dip**** read the followup post to that one. It explains why I asked the obvious question. Still awaiting answers to oh say about 20 questions your candy ass refuses to answer . Hurl all the insults you want . It’s clear you are afraid of the truth . Just cry complain , and throw drive by posts with no substance. King of useless bs

And yes if 17cops were murdered on us soil by an Islamic terrorist you bet I would be for taking action. I am also up for t aking action against domestic terrorist groups that shoot up groups of innocent people. Also for action against a single person that shoots another . But as you mentioned most mass shooters here end up dead. As I have written in every post we need to take action directly at that source as well.


You’ve already made it crystal clear you’d rather sit back and let Muslims murder people on US soil and then allow them asylum into our country. Which one of us is crazy !

Originally Posted by xstarrider

Hey dip**** read the followup post to that one. It explains why I asked the obvious question. Still awaiting answers to oh say about 20 questions your candy ass refuses to answer . Hurl all the insults you want . It’s clear you are afraid of the truth . Just cry complain , and throw drive by posts with no substance. King of useless bs

And yes if 17cops were murdered on us soil by an Islamic terrorist you bet I would be for taking action. I am also up for t aking action against domestic terrorist groups that shoot up groups of innocent people. Also for action against a single person that shoots another .


You’ve already made it crystal clear you’d rather sit back and let Muslims murder people on US soil and then allow them asylum into our country. Which one of us is crazy !

Okay, man. Looks like the guy was a right-winger and a Trump supporter. You still got that massive hard-on for "taking action"? No, your solution is that more guns is going to make this country safer even though the overwhelming evidence shows that is absolute rubbish.

I didn't throw an insult. Look at my comment. I called your advice useless. Nothing insulting about that. There is nothing said in that post that I wouldn't say to your face if you were standing right in front of me.

Gunman, holds 150 hostage in church, good Samaritan wrestles gunman to ground and disarms him. Police bust in and shoot him by mistake. Whoops, our bad. But guns are good!

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nosacre...ps-didnt-hear/

NRA suggests to arm all ministers now. Problem solved! MAGA!

https://www.snopes.com/florida-shooter-antifa-shirt/

So I guess the question is, does racer808 ever get tired of being wrong. Rhetorical question, of course he doesn't. Ha ha.

Originally Posted by ralph

What numbers are those bro?

That graph shows the number of violent crimes per 100,000 people. It doesn’t give you the actual breakdown of number counts for the crimes. It’s also doesn’t mention the reclassifications that occurred in 2012- 2013 which downgraded some violent crimes. Appreciate the pretty graph tho.

Since you want to use that graph. Explain the sudden major increases in crimes beginning in 2014? And the outlier in 2012 . Again your graph is just another picture of my point. 2 decades of decreasing crime per 100,000 and one guy comes into office and the spike occurs as a direct result of policies


So you and all the anti gunners consistently argue more guns equal more crime. The pretty graph you show illustrates just the opposite does it not ? Violent crime according to the graph YOU PROVIDED , has been on the downward trend for years . So how exactly does that illustrate your guns are evil point ? To me having such a downward trend means things were working exactly as they should . 2015 shows an extreme spike quite the opposite way , A significant increase across the nation . No significant gun laws were changed . Millions of guns were not all of a sudden handed out for free ...........So you can discount the more guns argument as the reason for the spike . Geeeeee. I wonder what could’ve happened in 2014 that led to an increase in violent crime across the nation .

Thank you for again providing the data proving my points . You guys really make this too easy .

Originally Posted by xstarrider

Thank you for again providing the data proving my points

Your welcome, always happy to bring stats to the discussion. From the graph when Obama came in the rate was just over 400 and when he went out it was just below 400 so seems to me the trend is pretty flat to slightly down. How does that relate to this 3 fold increase across the board you were talking about? Is this like the % of food stamps that go to illegals? Alternative maths, lol.

Yeah yeah, I fell for that one. But snopes is still a bull**** site that's been caught lying before (not on this one)

Originally Posted by racer808

Yeah yeah, I fell for that one. But snopes is still a bull**** site that's been caught lying before (not on this one)

Might want to provide some sources to back that up - you know, the way snopes does. That was straight up Grant-and Obama-Grandma style lol. As others posted earlier - is the conclusion you drew about his “environment” still valid now that your assumptions about him aren’t?

Originally Posted by pesos

Might want to provide some sources to back that up - you know, the way snopes does. That was straight up Grant-and Obama-Grandma style lol. As others posted earlier - is the conclusion you drew about his “environment” still valid now that your assumptions about him aren’t?

I am starting to believe we are going to get an answer to that question from Jack. He's too busy digging up phony memes and looking for false narratives to share. This is what our country has become; the truth is called "fake news" and blatant lies are called the truth.

If you think you NEED a semi automatic weapon, you are not mentally fit enough to have one.

I am pretty sure a 9mm doesn't have the velocity to ignite tanerite. Has to be a high powered rifle. We usually use a 223 or 308.

Originally Posted by psudy

I am pretty sure a 9mm doesn't have the velocity to ignite tanerite. Has to be a high powered rifle. We usually use a 223 or 308.

I've read a 9mm carbine could get it done. A .44 for sure has gotten done but I think it was at 40 yards & there's no way I'd want to be that close

Self described "proud NRA sellout" pushes vote to relax background checks 24 hours after shooting:

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/fl...oting-10090033

Trumps solution, ok keep selling weapons with current controls and cut $25m off the education program to try influence violence in schools.

https://www.politico.com/amp/story/2...mpression=true

How do you manage to cut $25m from a program like this and still run a budget deficit of $1t? Tax cuts and increased military spending to the already biggest military budget in the world. Trump and his team of dunces are truely too stupid to run your country.

Meat cleavers need to be made illegal to purchase as well!!! https://www.cnn.com/2014/03/01/world...-st=1518896236

Originally Posted by Laker1234

Meat cleavers need to be made illegal to purchase as well!!! https://www.cnn.com/2014/03/01/world...-st=1518896236

Ten attackers, 29 dead. How many would be dead if they had AR15s instead of knives?

10 attackers, dumbass.

Typical liberal if you don't like something you want it eliminated. You use whatever logic suits you. Perfect example School shootings are killing our kids. Rather than addressing the real issue evil hearts and kids that don't respect life or authority. You blame guns and tell gun supporters owning a gun isn't necessary even though it's a right given to all Americans in our Constitution. Then I ask you if you want to save kids lives why do you support abortion? You say it's a mother's right to choose. Science has proven life begins at conception, so mother's are killing their children and the children have no rights. How can you say you care about kids when you murder over 300 million kids a year? Mother's can choose to kill their kids and aren't held accountable for their actions just like kids that kill other kids aren't responsible for their actions. Liberal logic blame guns. I see why you can't explain your thinking.

[QUOTE=cwb4me;1975304]Typical liberal if you don't like something you want it eliminated. You use whatever logic suits you. Perfect example School shootings are killing our kids. Rather than addressing the real issue evil hearts and kids that don't respect life or authority. You blame guns and tell gun supporters owning a gun isn't necessary even though it's a right given to all Americans in our Constitution.[/QUOTE

Keep in mind it was writren at the same time that it was a right given to all people to own other people. It's called an amebdment for a reason so we can change it.

Got a solution for evil kids? ... no, then lets get rid of the guns

Originally Posted by cwb4me

Then I ask you if you want to save kids lives why do you support abortion? You say it's a mother's right to choose. Science has proven life begins at conception, so mother's are killing their children and the children have no rights. How can you say you care about kids when you murder over 300 million kids a year?

No science has not shown that. Unless you are defining life as a single cell life form at which point you need to go vegan then stop eating vegetables. But in any case your just trying to change the subject.

Originally Posted by cwb4me

Mother's can choose to kill their kids and aren't held accountable for their actions just like kids that kill other kids aren't responsible for their actions. Liberal logic blame guns. I see why you can't explain your thinking.

Its a simple explanation, guns are the most effective easy to use human killing tools. And unless you are planning to kill humans with it they are a hobby. A hobby is not as important as protecting our kids so get rid of your stupid hobby. Have you considered stamp collecting?

+1 to this reply. That has to be the most ignorant post of this whole thread

Originally Posted by cwb4me

How can you say you care about kids when you murder over 300 million kids a year?

Who murders >300,000,000 kids per year?

Originally Posted by shawndoggy

Who murders >300,000,000 kids per year?

I think he is referring to the 600k legal abortions per year. Run it though the xstarrider advanced maths calculator = 300m

Originally Posted by ralph

I think he is referring to the 600k legal abortions per year. Run it though the xstarrider advanced maths calculator = 300m

Yeah, he puts a factorial behind every number to get the results he needs to make up his point.

Originally Posted by cwb4me

Then I ask you if you want to save kids lives why do you support abortion?.

I don't support abortion.

Originally Posted by cwb4me

How can you say you care about kids when you murder over 300 million kids a year?

So you are making this argument to prove that he doesn't care about kids anymore than you? And therefore you both should just be happy about not caring.

Until society is willing to entertain the notion that children are valuable enough to be guarded on school grounds rather than worrying about how uncomfortable it is to consider, nothing will change. It's unfortunate the world we live in has deteriorated to necessitate such action. To pretend that guarding children is more unacceptable than their potential death is preposterous. With an active shooter, schools don't call law enforcement because they have badges......

Oops out of order now. +1 to plhorn

Ten attackers, 29 dead. How many would be dead if they had AR15s instead of knives? How many would still be alive if the civilians were armed?

Originally Posted by Laker1234

Ten attackers, 29 dead. How many would be dead if they had AR15s instead of knives? How many would still be alive if the civilians were armed?

Who knows if anyone would have been saved by armed civilians. Armed civilians didn't save anyone's life in Las Vegas.

I come onto these threads regularly and read with great interest. Often there is an honest open exchange of ideas - sadly more often the conversation deteriorates quickly into this side yelling at that side and that side insulting the other side. At that point people seem to be become entrenched in the if you don't agree with me your wrong and your stupid so end of cordial discussion.

I do not pretend to have any good ideas as to how to prevent or at least reduce the incidents of mass shootings. If we can't come together and agree after the senseless murder of our children in the place we want them to be at their most comfortable in order to get the education we all agree is the silver bullet to many many problems it seems as if there is no hope. We can't even come together and open dialogue.

My daughter had a friend killed in parkland and we spent Saturday at a funeral. My daughter is a senior in high school and is genuinely frightened on a day to basis. They have lock down drills regularly and had the swat team there this past Friday as there was a threat of a copycat and a report of person with a gun on campus. Her school is single point of entry with armed police officers. Just like parkland.

I don't know what to say to her when she asks me how can the government think this is ok? How can some people think more gun restriction is bad? Why won't we properly fund mental health programs we already have?

This has hit as close to home as it gets. My wife, sister and sister in law are teachers. One high school, one middle, one elementary - none of them want to be armed or have their colleagues armed regardless of the training. I know the argument is arm the ones that want to or a "select few". Teachers already have enough responsibility, pressure and undue blame placed upon them. They did not go into law enforcement they went into education as a profession.

My wife also suffers from mental illness - depression so clearly she would be disqualified. How many of your loved ones friends, colleagues suffer in silence form mental illness - more than you know or are willing to accept.

The other thing my daughter said that is really interesting to me is that that guy didn't do anything illegal until he entered the school and pulled the trigger - what are they (authorities) suppose to do arrest and jail people because we don't like how they think - now that's scary too

Part of the problem may be that the police and school officials (teachers and administrators) cannot do what is needed, in some cases. because of the threat of lawsuits. It's a sad day when kids are afraid to attend school.

Originally Posted by Laker1234

Part of the problem may be that the police and school officials (teachers and administrators) cannot do what is needed, in some cases. because of the threat of lawsuits. It's a sad day when kids are afraid to attend school.

what are you suggesting?

Whiteflash - Thats for your side. I am a gun proponent and have often just recited to arm our teachers. I had not really considered they may not want to me or that they can only protect their own class. Like swat had mention, very few of us, even if trained will engage an active shooter when we are there to protect the group around us. While I think If I am in a theater when stuff happens and I will react, I doubt I would go chasing an armed man through to other theaters. I was not in the military and not a police man, I do not have the balls to do either. I don't want my children scared to go to school. If that moment comes where it is myself or my family verse a shooter, of course I am ready and trained, but thats where it ends I think. This is a terrible situation that is just inflamed by our media. I think that is big part of this issue. Its not guns or video games!

I'm sure the "from my cold dead hands" people will freak out, but if I was a member of congress I would propose the following changes ASAP and let someone vote them down to have to take them blame when **** hits the fan again....

* Waiting period + background check on ALL gun sales. Private party (how this is tracked below), gun shows, stores, etc etc

* All fire-arms (except maybe muzzle loaders) registered via serial number. Rifles, shotguns, handguns, etc etc. A block-chain style log is kept of owners and what they own. When its time for me to sell my gun to John Doe we would both have to fill out a form that would 1.) background check John Doe and 2.) Confirm I have ownership of Gun Serial #123 .... the transfer happens after the check has been cleared. If I sell the gun and John Doe does NOT pass the check or we skipped the whole process, I can be charged as an accessory to any crime he may commit with that gun.

.... this registry would also help if a weapon is lost/stolen. I call the local police, say my house was robbed and Serial #123 is missing and maybe pay a small fine for "irresponsible gun ownership".... they now know that gun is out somewhere in the wrong hands. If that weapon is used in a crime at least I reported it stolen I'm off the hook as the prior owner, if it was NOT reported stolen ... accessory to whatever crime it was used in. This forces responsible ownership

... this registry also allows for folks who do something terrible to have their guns removed. As I understand most laws now if you have XYZ violent felony against you, you cannot buy a gun; but it does nothing for guns you previously owned. Now local police can take previously owned guns from someone who beats his wife after the purchase, or whatever crime

* Mandatory training required for gun purchase. Military service counts, hunter safety counts, conceal / carry classes count ... anyone purchasing a weapon should be able to prove the can safely control that weapon.

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None of these rules should have a major effect "good" gun owners and would make it tougher for the wrong people to have guns.

A lot of that is already in place. When you buy a gun you are background checked(not sure about gun shows but that should be included) and the serial number is recorded with you as the owner. They do need to curb the person to person sales and force those through a dealer so more background checks can be done. Not sure why you wouldn't report a gun stolen unless you unlawfully had it. Felons cannot posses firearms legally either.

Originally Posted by plhorn

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42897626

This is NOT OK. Our government is doing nothing and we are working on 12 school shootings in the first month of 2018.

Who's gotta die before we start to give a crap about this!

3 shootings but who's counting right?

Originally Posted by deneng

3 shootings but who's counting right?

Actually, its now 18 shootings on school grounds in 2018, but thanks to gun nuts there will be another half dozen in a months time and the NRA and GOP will do NOTHING to stop it.

http://www.king5.com/article/news/na.../507-518863102

Again, I honestly hope that the next kids killed belong to a Republican Senator so that they will actually want to do something. More kids will die, we all have to agree on that. It may as well be the kids of the people that are so bought by the NRA that they are letting this happen.