Biden for Prez

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

Proven zip? he just proved that Clinton and the democrat party where spying and created a false narrative. 90 day sentence for lying to the FBI? I am pretty sure that is a few years bud. Spying on a sitting president and misappropriating government resources in the commission of a crime? Good luck with 90 days.

The other two guys would not have been even approached by law enforcement if not for the fake conspiracy of the democrats. Even then, none of it was about Russia.

I am not sure who you are trying to convince. The voters do not believe you. 66% of democrats polled now want hillary investigated. Democrats did not even have enough balls to try and impeach over the fake russia story. There is not a single thing that supports your claims except for your conspiracy theory and made up narrative how you hated Trump since you were 5 years old.

Like I told you what, 4 years ago. He was still your president. He was not kicked out of office over your conspiracy. He was not arrested. nothing happened. Matter of fact he could be back as your president. So, at this point it is: Reality - 5 years, YOU- zero

LOL, he didnt "prove" anything, did he? It is just an indictment for lying about a source and employer. Thats it. If Im wrong, point out where he "proved" these things. He has wasted untold taxpayer $ for over 3 years and has 2 minor, misdemeanor indictments and zero convictions. Why would Clinton, as you say , spy on Obama? it was obama in office at the time. Something makes no sense, and its you.

Durham, still at it three years later, recently filed documents that Fox News and others interpreted as containing explosive allegations: that the Clinton campaign paid a company to spy on the Trump Organization, and that the spying included mining internet data from the White House while Trump was in office.

Found this to educate you.
But in fact, Durham hasn’t said that. He hasn’t alleged Clinton’s campaign paid anyone to spy on Trump, and he didn’t allege there was a crime committed related to internet data-mining. The implication is that, if anyone did carry out such mining, it was legal.

Most crucially, though, Fox and the rest claimed Durham’s filing alleged that mining of White House data happened while Trump was president. This is the crux of the whole right-wing “spying” trope. But in fact, Durham’s filings don’t say when it happened. Subsequent information, as reported in The New York Times on Thursday, indicates it actually happened in 2016. Meaning the real victim of this supposedly execution-worthy crime (which, again, even the prosecutor isn’t calling a crime) wasn’t Trump at all — but Barack Obama.

Will Fox News still be outraged?

You failed to answer the main event, you believe obvious voter fraud BS and refuse to believe actual convictions. Bizarro world. Up is down, down is up.
Who wants Clinton investigated on what? being old, ugly and cranky?
If your tin hat gets any tighter, boom.

Originally Posted by 95sn

LOL, he didnt "prove" anything, did he? It is just an indictment for lying about a source and employer. Thats it. If Im wrong, point out where he "proved" these things. He has wasted untold taxpayer $ for over 3 years and has 2 minor, misdemeanor indictments and zero convictions. Why would Clinton, as you say , spy on Obama? it was obama in office at the time. Something makes no sense, and its you.

Durham, still at it three years later, recently filed documents that Fox News and others interpreted as containing explosive allegations: that the Clinton campaign paid a company to spy on the Trump Organization, and that the spying included mining internet data from the White House while Trump was in office.

Found this to educate you.
But in fact, Durham hasn’t said that. He hasn’t alleged Clinton’s campaign paid anyone to spy on Trump, and he didn’t allege there was a crime committed related to internet data-mining. The implication is that, if anyone did carry out such mining, it was legal.

Most crucially, though, Fox and the rest claimed Durham’s filing alleged that mining of White House data happened while Trump was president. This is the crux of the whole right-wing “spying” trope. But in fact, Durham’s filings don’t say when it happened. Subsequent information, as reported in The New York Times on Thursday, indicates it actually happened in 2016. Meaning the real victim of this supposedly execution-worthy crime (which, again, even the prosecutor isn’t calling a crime) wasn’t Trump at all — but Barack Obama.

Will Fox News still be outraged?

You failed to answer the main event, you believe obvious voter fraud BS and refuse to believe actual convictions. Bizarro world. Up is down, down is up.
Who wants Clinton investigated on what? being old, ugly and cranky?
If your tin hat gets any tighter, boom.

Yep. That is the banana in the tail pipe for you people. The democrats used the data during Trump to say there was a link when there was data before that time proving that these calls have always happened.

Convictions in regard to Russia and Trump? When did that happen again? Why did a low rent kalifornia congressman argue since Trump was in bed with Russia (his words, not the facts) that the US is going to push for Ukraine to join NATO? This was a few years ago. Kind of an odd thing for someone in that position to be pushing for or even say out loud. The democrats new that would provoke Putin. Me is beginning to think something is up with you democrats (like I did not already know). Why was your party pushing the Ukraine to NATO narrative so much?

And here we go. Just a little more to tack on to the argument that democrats are just here to use America for their own good.

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/po...08/id/1060130/

Respondents of a Quinnipiac University Poll released on Monday revealed that more Republicans than Democrats would stay in the U.S. and fight if the country was in the same situation as Ukraine during the ongoing Russian invasion.

Among Republicans surveyed, 68% said they would stay and fight compared to 40% of Democrats. Fifty-two percent of Democrats said they would flee the country, while only 25% of Republicans said the same.

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

And here we go. Just a little more to tack on to the argument that democrats are just here to use America for their own good.

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/po...08/id/1060130/

Respondents of a Quinnipiac University Poll released on Monday revealed that more Republicans than Democrats would stay in the U.S. and fight if the country was in the same situation as Ukraine during the ongoing Russian invasion.

Among Republicans surveyed, 68% said they would stay and fight compared to 40% of Democrats. Fifty-two percent of Democrats said they would flee the country, while only 25% of Republicans said the same.

And they are the 1st ones to cry about freedoms, when they have to where a 1/4 oz face mask or get a pin prick, first to cry about gas prices increasing due to putins war. Snowflakes.
It says nothing about Dems "are just here to use America for their own good." Maybe it just says republicans are more violent.

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

Yep. That is the banana in the tail pipe for you people. The democrats used the data during Trump to say there was a link when there was data before that time proving that these calls have always happened.

Convictions in regard to Russia and Trump? When did that happen again? Why did a low rent kalifornia congressman argue since Trump was in bed with Russia (his words, not the facts) that the US is going to push for Ukraine to join NATO? This was a few years ago. Kind of an odd thing for someone in that position to be pushing for or even say out loud. The democrats new that would provoke Putin. Me is beginning to think something is up with you democrats (like I did not already know). Why was your party pushing the Ukraine to NATO narrative so much?

Michel Flynn was arrested, indicted and found guilty for lying about Russian contacts leading up to the 2016 election. Trump had to fire him for it, then, later he pardoned him.

Originally Posted by 95sn

And they are the 1st ones to cry about freedoms, when they have to where a 1/4 oz face mask or get a pin prick, first to cry about gas prices increasing due to putins war. Snowflakes.
It says nothing about Dems "are just here to use America for their own good." Maybe it just says republicans are more violent.

Bless you little heart. You actually believe gas prices are only up because of Putin's war? Even though every single democrat campaigns on raising fuel prices so they can fund their green deals? That has only been going on since the 1970's. Now all of a sudden it is prices because of Putin? You are just simply dumb.

Republicans are more violent, yet if you remove democrat cities from the statistics, we have a crime rate well below the most white monolithic European countries. Kinds of says a lot about democrats.

You democrats sure love yourself some authoritarianism. Bunch of weak a$$e$ willing to use laws to make the strong bend to their wills. You know, the laws that are backed up by a GUN!!. Except for when they would need to really fight for their rights from a foreign invader, they clearly would cut bait and run. They are just locusts. Here to feed on the good crop and when it is gone, they simply move off to feed on the next.

Originally Posted by 95sn

Michel Flynn was arrested, indicted and found guilty for lying about Russian contacts leading up to the 2016 election. Trump had to fire him for it, then, later he pardoned him.

And. He also worked with the prosecutors until he learned they were just trying to frame him. Lying about a contact is not collusion. You have no idea what the context of him lying was even about or that did he really lie or not. He literally spent 23 days on the job in Trump's whitehouse in 2017. Yep. Work up a lot of collusion well after the election no less. Just stop. You are doing nothing but reaching like you always have. Only people who have been caught in the Russian probe are democrats. That is the only fact of the Russian Collusion.

Originally Posted by 95sn

And they are the 1st ones to cry about freedoms, when they have to where a 1/4 oz face mask or get a pin prick, first to cry about gas prices increasing due to putins war. Snowflakes.
It says nothing about Dems "are just here to use America for their own good." Maybe it just says republicans are more violent.

I bet you did not even catch ol slow Joe trying to pull a fast one today when he said production was higher today than when Trump started office. Nice banana in the tail pipe again. How about the end of Trump term there slow Joe? I can not believe his idiots believe him on anything.

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

And. He also worked with the prosecutors until he learned they were just trying to frame him. Lying about a contact is not collusion. You have no idea what the context of him lying was even about or that did he really lie or not. He literally spent 23 days on the job in Trump's whitehouse in 2017. Yep. Work up a lot of collusion well after the election no less. Just stop. You are doing nothing but reaching like you always have. Only people who have been caught in the Russian probe are democrats. That is the only fact of the Russian Collusion.

How crazy are you?
Mike Flynn was arrested directly because of Russian contacts that he lied about. He lied about reducing and or removing sanctions on Russia. Why would one pledge to reduce or eliminate sanctions on Russia during an election? He admitted to what he did and plead guilty. All fact.
And then you say " Only people who have been caught in the Russian probe are democrats. That is the only fact of the Russian Collusion."
Plainly not a fact.

Originally Posted by 95sn

How crazy are you?
Mike Flynn was arrested directly because of Russian contacts that he lied about. He lied about reducing and or removing sanctions on Russia. Why would one pledge to reduce or eliminate sanctions on Russia during an election? He admitted to what he did and plead guilty. All fact.
And then you say " Only people who have been caught in the Russian probe are democrats. That is the only fact of the Russian Collusion."
Plainly not a fact.

Flynn talking to the Russians was not illegal. He was not busted for contact with Russians. He was convicted of lying to the FBI. Not the same I am afraid. And why was Flynn even put in the position where he decided to lie for some reason? Oh yeah. That's right. A phony investigation into a made up democrat narrative.

Again, the only people who have been caught colluding are democrats. Changing documents to get FISA warrants, working with actual Russian to make up phony talking points on Trump. Mining data illegally then using that data to present a false narrative to the FBI and the CIA. Nope. Nothing to see here. You just need to stop.

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

I bet you did not even catch ol slow Joe trying to pull a fast one today when he said production was higher today than when Trump started office. Nice banana in the tail pipe again. How about the end of Trump term there slow Joe? I can not believe his idiots believe him on anything.

He also said that next year will be a record for production. If that turns out to be true you will become a supporter huh?

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

Flynn talking to the Russians was not illegal. He was not busted for contact with Russians. He was convicted of lying to the FBI. Not the same I am afraid. And why was Flynn even put in the position where he decided to lie for some reason? Oh yeah. That's right. A phony investigation into a made up democrat narrative.

Again, the only people who have been caught colluding are democrats. Changing documents to get FISA warrants, working with actual Russian to make up phony talking points on Trump. Mining data illegally then using that data to present a false narrative to the FBI and the CIA. Nope. Nothing to see here. You just need to stop.

Thats what i said, did you miss it?
"Mike Flynn was arrested directly because of Russian contacts that he lied about. He lied about reducing and or removing sanctions on Russia."
The only thing made up is the excuse you try when defending a convicted felon. Mike Flynn, trumps Natl Security Chief was lying about his contacts with Russians, about removing sanctions not some made up narrative. Obama warned trump about flynn but of course trump goes the wrong way and hires him and in 3 weeks was forced to fire him.
Youre just wrong on everything including the durham nothing burger, and the zero convictions in 3+ years, a couple minor crimes only. LOL. If you think Dems were colluding with russians, what did you think of Trump Jr, manafort, Kushner all meeting with a russian atty claiming to have dirt on Clinton, more locker room talk?

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

I bet you did not even catch ol slow Joe trying to pull a fast one today when he said production was higher today than when Trump started office. Nice banana in the tail pipe again. How about the end of Trump term there slow Joe? I can not believe his idiots believe him on anything.

8.8M 2017 vs. 11.5M today. We peaked near 13M, but what quickly followed? The most epic crash in oil history. The oil industry was fragile the entire time Trump was in office. It was only artificially propped up by private equity. 2020s price war and oversupply (not just the pandemic) delt the death-blow to the oil industry as we had known it for 15+ years. Investment ran for the hills, likely for good.

The fundamental reconstruction has been slow, but that is because the new oil industry will be defined by moderation and operating in cash flow. You will no longer be able to raise funds on product still in the ground. Like I said months ago, from now on you will pay what it is actually worth.

In the short term there is absolutely no way to boost production. Too many workers from CEOs to Roughnecks have left the industry for good. Because of the conservative approach, the industry allowed to steel supply chain to completely drain. We are in the middle of a genuine gap. Every customer I have has asked about adding a rig as soon as possible. Until fall, it is impossible. Last week, we officially broke $100/WTI and added 0 rigs. A far out prophecy I said months ago has come true.

It has been a long time since oil has had a hero in office. Obama, Trump and now Biden were never did a measurable positive thing for our industry. We are only now exiting what I called a 10 year downturn that started in 2014. Oil was still at $85 then and I had people laugh in my face.

My only advice for the foreseeable future is to use less.

Originally Posted by skiboarder

My only advice for the foreseeable future is to use less.

You can imagine my smugness charging my EV using my roof top solar every day.

Originally Posted by ralph

You can imagine my smugness charging my EV using my roof top solar every day.

1 electric car takes 5 yr(aprox) to recoup the carbon emmisons caused by creating it, mining etc. So you have a gas car for 5yr, vs an electric car for 5 years, its a wash, unless you keep it for 10 years, and charge off solar only, you have to burn gas or oil or coal to create the energy to charge.

Estimates have been done for over 20 yrs. you would need nuclear everywhere to run electric cars. the amount of energy to charge cars would be off the charts if everyone had one. So commercial transportation would be crippled and people would be in the dark ages unless you can make a 1000 mile unit, that can charge is 8 hours, runs in the cold. and does not eat 80% of it charge towing. So a RIVIN gets 220 mpe tow with it, it get 30 to 40 miles out of a charge, large commercial equipment would fail.

The battery tech is not there yet, and the infrastructure is never going to be there, unless we come up with some new science, quickly. Hydrogen and liquified gas is the answer.

Originally Posted by dougr

1 electric car takes 5 yr(aprox) to recoup the carbon emmisons caused by creating it, mining etc.

1. Not true:
https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...rs-2021-06-29/

2. Nobody cares about carbon footprint, they care about running costs and energy independence.

Ironically right wingers say they are all about personal responsibility and think energy independence is important but won't make simple choices to solve this issue. No, they will wait for the government to do something about it.

Sure would be nice if the Biden could get some oil help from the middle east, but saudi arabia and UAE refuse to even take a phone call from him:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=entnewsntp

Originally Posted by ralph

1. Not true:
https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...rs-2021-06-29/

2. Nobody cares about carbon footprint, they care about running costs and energy independence.

Ironically right wingers say they are all about personal responsibility and think energy independence is important but won't make simple choices to solve this issue. No, they will wait for the government to do something about it.

Please give John Carey a call about "nobody cares about carbon footprint" lol So you lefties no longer care about the carbon footprint because the the reality of the end game, toxic cathode powders, batteries that cannot be pulled apart, and landfills will be miles High with materials not able to be separated.

Again, Electric is not there yet, for wide usage. The battery tech is not ready. Maybe in 25 or so years, but not yet. And if you are saying the carbon footprint is now a moot left wing argument, your left wing boobs have been full of ****?

Maybe we should try cutting off oil and gas to NZ and see how it go's. Would be a good experiment and we can see how well it works

Originally Posted by dougr

Please give John Carey a call about "nobody cares about carbon footprint" lol So you lefties no longer care about the carbon footprint because the the reality of the end game, toxic cathode powders, batteries that cannot be pulled apart, and landfills will be miles High with materials not able to be separated.

The environmental stuff is fun to virtue signal about because it winds the numpties up but honestly I didn't care about fracking, tail pipe emissions or middle eastern conflict when I drove a petrol car, I don't care about battery recycling or any other nonsense you talk about now. I like my tesla because it's practically zero running cost and a blast to drive. After owning one I'm never going back to petrol, EV is just better. Hearing petrol heads clutch their pearls about how concerned they are for the enviroment is hilarious, thanks for the laugh.

Originally Posted by ralph

You can imagine my smugness charging my EV using my roof top solar every day.

I have no problem with EVs and I am in the oil industry. If you are able to use your EV and charge it with solar--great for you. I wish I could be that independent.

Originally Posted by skiboarder

I have no problem with EVs and I am in the oil industry. If you are able to use your EV and charge it with solar--great for you. I wish I could be that independent.

Doesn't everyone know that all the people have 50k solar system in their single wide trailers, and can afford a 50k car. lol

also, fast charging is damn near the cost of gas, its actually more per mile. so you better not go anywhere you need to fast charge or have lots of extra time on your hands to hang out for a day to slow charge.

I will buy an electric when i can get 1000 miles per charge and it will completely charge, from home, in 8 hours or less.

Originally Posted by skiboarder

I have no problem with EVs and I am in the oil industry. If you are able to use your EV and charge it with solar--great for you. I wish I could be that independent.

For the cost of a BMW M3 or Audi RS4 which I was shopping for I bought the Model 3 performance and a 30kW solar system. The solar system is cashflow neutral, the cost of the repayment equals the power saving. When I did the numbers it was a no brainer, you don't need to be a greenie, the numbers stacked up perfect.

Originally Posted by dougr

I will buy an electric when i can get 1000 miles per charge and it will completely charge, from home, in 8 hours or less.

Then you will never buy one, the use case of driving 1,000 miles every day and charging overnight is such a tiny amount of people they will never it. Makes zero sense to carry around enough batteries to drive 1,000 miles in one hit when you never use a car that way.

EV's aren't for everyone, there will always be petrol cars around but I think the cost to buy and run them will begin to become unaffordable once the scale drops out of that market.

Originally Posted by ralph

He also said that next year will be a record for production. If that turns out to be true you will become a supporter huh?

No. We would not be in this position if not for his initial policies. The democrats campaign year after year on destroying the fuel industry then everyone is shocked with food prices go through the roof and fuel prices get out of control. It is like people don't understand when energy prices go up, so does the cost to transport goods, manufacture goods and so on. It is almost like it is done on purpose? Huh.... I wonder?

he also has said he can not do anything about gas prices.

Originally Posted by ralph

You can imagine my smugness charging my EV using my roof top solar every day.

Imagine your smugness as your food prices skyrocket.

On BTW, the russians also supply most of the worlds fertilizer for plants.

Originally Posted by ralph

1. Not true:
https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...rs-2021-06-29/

2. Nobody cares about carbon footprint, they care about running costs and energy independence.

Ironically right wingers say they are all about personal responsibility and think energy independence is important but won't make simple choices to solve this issue. No, they will wait for the government to do something about it.

They don't want government to fix sh$t. They want government to get out of the way so they can fix it. Democrats keep putting up barriers to production. Regulations simply add to the cost of production and start up time.

Originally Posted by ralph

The environmental stuff is fun to virtue signal about because it winds the numpties up but honestly I didn't care about fracking, tail pipe emissions or middle eastern conflict when I drove a petrol car, I don't care about battery recycling or any other nonsense you talk about now. I like my tesla because it's practically zero running cost and a blast to drive. After owning one I'm never going back to petrol, EV is just better. Hearing petrol heads clutch their pearls about how concerned they are for the enviroment is hilarious, thanks for the laugh.

No concerned, just pointing out the obvious to you leftist that your fix for one issue just creates a bigger one. I am going to feel pretty smug when you have have to pop off 20 to 30k for a battery replacement.

Still have to worry about food prices and all things made with oil including most of your car.

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

I am going to feel pretty smug when you have have to pop off 20 to 30k for a battery replacement.

Sorry to spoil your schadenfreude party but the warranty on the battery is 8 years and 192k, I turn my cars over every 4-5 years so yeah, won't be a problem for me.

Originally Posted by ralph

Sorry to spoil your schadenfreude party but the warranty on the battery is 8 years and 192k, I turn my cars over every 4-5 years so yeah, won't be a problem for me.

Sounds like you are one of the elites then. The other 99% do not have the luxury you do. Eventually the warranty will have to be drawn down to. Companies are willing to take a loss to get into the market until they are the market.

Kalifornia has a elitist mindset like yours. now 47% of the countries homeless reside in kalifornia. Everyone here is pushed to have to upgrade cars by penalizing those who can not afford to have constant vehicle turnover. They also do that to the trucking industry. Guess what. The ports are full of ships and no one to deliver from the ports to the rest of the country.

Originally Posted by ralph

Sorry to spoil your schadenfreude party but the warranty on the battery is 8 years and 192k, I turn my cars over every 4-5 years so yeah, won't be a problem for me.

How long does it take someone to buy a $20,000 Hundyi and pay $5 a gallon a gas cost wise vs a $50,000 to $80,000 tesla and $30,000 to $50,000 charging system?

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

How long does it take someone to buy a $20,000 Hundyi and pay $5 a gallon a gas cost wise vs a $50,000 to $80,000 tesla and $30,000 to $50,000 charging system?

Hard to find a $20K Hyundai, and its like comparing an entry level Volkswagen to a high a powered Porsche, that and the charging system also powers the entire household, virtually for free. Does Hyundai pay your elec bill for 20 years on each purchase?
Why dont you go buy a horse?

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

How long does it take someone to buy a $20,000 Hundyi and pay $5 a gallon a gas cost wise vs a $50,000 to $80,000 tesla and $30,000 to $50,000 charging system?

The average price of a new car is $47k and the Model 3 is $45k. A solar system for a house is about $10k.
The total cost of ownership of a Model 3 is less than a Toyota Camry

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

Eventually the warranty will have to be drawn down to. Companies are willing to take a loss to get into the market until they are the market.

It's amazing how quickly you fabricate things to support your narrative. Tesla has one of the lowest warranty costs in the market and make double the gross margin of VAG, Ford & GM. It's all in the annual filing just go and look before you make yourself look foolish.

Originally Posted by ralph

It's amazing how quickly you fabricate things to support your narrative. Tesla has one of the lowest warranty costs in the market and make double the gross margin of VAG, Ford & GM. It's all in the annual filing just go and look before you make yourself look foolish.

My wife has a direct friend who had to have the battery replaced in their tesla for $20,000. Not a narrative. Direct knowledge of a fact.

Tesla is not going to outfit the world. Other manufacturers have to be involved. The government subsidizes these efforts. Tesla also received all sorts of tax credits and so did buyers of their cars. They also took over a Joint GM/ Toyota plant in Fremont for cheap (I worked right across the highway from that plant for a few years). If electric cars were as great as you say they are, then they would automatically take over as people are always looking for a cheap great thing. The reality it is neither. You would not have a powerful government trying to fund and screw their citizens to go that direction if they were great, cheap and convent. They are not.

How about you give us the low down of how electric cars do when it is 0 degrees outside?

Originally Posted by 95sn

Hard to find a $20K Hyundai, and its like comparing an entry level Volkswagen to a high a powered Porsche, that and the charging system also powers the entire household, virtually for free. Does Hyundai pay your elec bill for 20 years on each purchase?
Why dont you go buy a horse?

Horse is more expensive than a car to operate and less convenient.

I have not heard of anyone purchasing a home system for $10k. Most things around here are rentals so all you are doing is paying a different PG&E person and you take all the risk mechanical wise. You also have to find someone to take over your rental if you sell.

Just looked it up. The MSRP for the cheapest Tesla is $44,990 for the model 3 (sure that is nothing included but base car and battery), $58,990 for the Y, $99,990 for the S, and $104,990 for the X.

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

If electric cars were as great as you say they are, then they would automatically take over as people are always looking for a cheap great thing.

Tesla is growing at a compound growth rate @ 50% per year when Toyota, Ford GM are contracting. So yeah, the market has spoken.

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

How about you give us the low down of how electric cars do when it is 0 degrees outside?

Older ones loose up to 50% of their range below 0ºC but the newer ones with heat pumps fitted are way better, maybe 20% loss. EV's are just at the start of their development, as an industry they are getting better every year, both in terms of cost of manufacturer and performance.

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

Horse is more expensive than a car to operate and less convenient.

I have not heard of anyone purchasing a home system for $10k. Most things around here are rentals so all you are doing is paying a different PG&E person and you take all the risk mechanical wise. You also have to find someone to take over your rental if you sell.

Just looked it up. The MSRP for the cheapest Tesla is $44,990 for the model 3 (sure that is nothing included but base car and battery), $58,990 for the Y, $99,990 for the S, and $104,990 for the X.

I have 3 Direct Friends that have solar systems all under 10K. You dont need to fall for the "rental" either. You sound like a DeltaDebbieDowner on everything you dont understand. Whats there to be afraid of?

doug said horses feed millions, we use them every day. Never heard of a cowboy?

yes, horses and other animals are still a large part of the 3rd world order, or they would not have food. They use them to farm and feed millions of people in foreign lands. We use them everyday, in our country to heard cattle. Its called a cowboy! We can easily go back to horses or human power, although your lefties friends would have a problem with the POOP.

Originally Posted by 95sn

You sound like a DeltaDebbieDowner on everything you dont understand. Whats there to be afraid of?

He's afraid that if he stops buy gas he will suddenly turn into a liberal.

Originally Posted by ralph

It's amazing how quickly you fabricate things to support your narrative. Tesla has one of the lowest warranty costs in the market and make double the gross margin of VAG, Ford & GM. It's all in the annual filing just go and look before you make yourself look foolish.

your model 3 battery is 15k. and if you over fast charge, it voids the warranty. how do i know. my neighbor has to drive 120 miles each way for work, didn't have to for 20 years, but they moved his contract from charlotte to columbia sc. he has been fast charging, extremely expensive, and after 1 yr his battery will not hold a full charge. they said, to bad so sad. So now he has a 1k car payment, pays crazy fast charging fees and has a car that can barely get him one way.

What a deal! So he cant trade it in, no one wants it, and has bought a used car to drive while his tesla rots in his driveway. I told him to run it into a tree, it will catch on fire and he can be done with it!

Originally Posted by ralph

Sorry to spoil your schadenfreude party but the warranty on the battery is 8 years and 192k, I turn my cars over every 4-5 years so yeah, won't be a problem for me.

perfect example of the hypocrisy of the carbon footprint. your 4 yr flip has a larger footprint than a gas car. Plus the remaining cathode powders that will be in the water system when millions of batteries are left to rot.

I am not against electric cars, am against the BS. the propaganda is off the charts. In the 70's we were facing global cooling. In 1999 Kerry warned florida would be under water. Its all BS. WE can clean up, and have cleaned up emissions while developing better, cleaner tech, while still using fuel, at manageable costs. We choose not to, due to the lefties cult green religion. FACT!

Originally Posted by 95sn

I have 3 Direct Friends that have solar systems all under 10K. You dont need to fall for the "rental" either. You sound like a DeltaDebbieDowner on everything you dont understand. Whats there to be afraid of?

doug said horses feed millions, we use them every day. Never heard of a cowboy?

And how much of their own labor did they do. Are they on their house? Are the properly permitted? Does it actually offset all energy (I know it does not, as they have to use energy at night). You live in the southern part of the country and it is warm and sunny hundreds of days a year. The rest of the country is getting snow this week.

Originally Posted by ralph

Tesla is growing at a compound growth rate @ 50% per year when Toyota, Ford GM are contracting. So yeah, the market has spoken.


Older ones loose up to 50% of their range below 0ºC but the newer ones with heat pumps fitted are way better, maybe 20% loss. EV's are just at the start of their development, as an industry they are getting better every year, both in terms of cost of manufacturer and performance.

Still a very very small part of total car sales. Nice try on the percentage thing. 100% of 1 is only 2.

Great for the EV market. That solution simply does not work for everyone. Again. City dwellers going to have extension cords running all over the streets? Everyone huddled around the local charge spot having to schedule a charge time? 10 hours across one state driving 70 MPH. People are not interested in adding hours to a long drive. EV solution could work for my wife and possibly me for commuting. My wife nominally stays around town. could be a good solution for her. I want my Truck. I do more than just commute. I think EV is a good supplement, however it is not the one size fits all solution.

Originally Posted by ralph

He's afraid that if he stops buy gas he will suddenly turn into a liberal.

Na. I am not interested in sitting over at Target like all those other people hanging onto their chargers for hours a week.

That is another issue. Most cities, you would not want to be hanging in a known spot for hours a week in your expensive ride. You will get robbed at some point.

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

And how much of their own labor did they do. Are they on their house? Are the properly permitted? Does it actually offset all energy (I know it does not, as they have to use energy at night). You live in the southern part of the country and it is warm and sunny hundreds of days a year. The rest of the country is getting snow this week.

Yes, we did the labor. Why double the cost if I can lift a 35 lb solar panel? 2 on the roof, one is on stands at the edge of property. 100% permitted. We pay about $3/mo at the river house. Solar panels actually work more efficiently in cold weather, as long as not covered in snow. Educate yourself debbiedeltadowner.

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

Still a very very small part of total car sales. Nice try on the percentage thing. 100% of 1 is only 2.

Great for the EV market. That solution simply does not work for everyone. Again. City dwellers going to have extension cords running all over the streets? Everyone huddled around the local charge spot having to schedule a charge time? 10 hours across one state driving 70 MPH. People are not interested in adding hours to a long drive. EV solution could work for my wife and possibly me for commuting. My wife nominally stays around town. could be a good solution for her. I want my Truck. I do more than just commute. I think EV is a good supplement, however it is not the one size fits all solution.

EV's would be perfect if we swapped the entire US fleet of mail trucks to EV.s. Charged overnight and used daily, School busses the same. Lots of ways to make advances that makes sense today.
We already have EV's that have over 500 horsepower and 300 mile range, the improvements are coming quickly. But feel free to sit there and think up all the problems we will surpass w/o a sweat. How long did you wait to get a cell phone? Still have a landline? FYI, I still love my truck too, cant live w/o out it. Also researching an electric motor swap for one of my classic VW's.

Originally Posted by 95sn

EV's would be perfect if we swapped the entire US fleet of mail trucks to EV.s. Charged overnight and used daily, School busses the same. Lots of ways to make advances that makes sense today.
We already have EV's that have over 500 horsepower and 300 mile range, the improvements are coming quickly. But feel free to sit there and think up all the problems we will surpass w/o a sweat. How long did you wait to get a cell phone? Still have a landline? FYI, I still love my truck too, cant live w/o out it. Also researching an electric motor swap for one of my classic VW's.

I am all for building new tech, cleaner tech and longer lasting tech, but lying about the reason our gas prices are high, it BS. Biden said exactly what he is doing. "working it out" no more off shore, no more fed land, no more exploration and forcing banks to not lend. that is why we are in this dilemma. We can do both, drill, lower costs, and develop, but the left doesn't want it.

Sad, as the left is killing the middle american, and decimating the lower class. People cannot afford 100 buck fill ups, $25 for a hamburger and 50% increasing on their heating costs. ITs going to kill the people you so say you are trying to help.

Originally Posted by dougr

I am all for building new tech, cleaner tech and longer lasting tech, but lying about the reason our gas prices are high, it BS. Biden said exactly what he is doing. "working it out" no more off shore, no more fed land, no more exploration and forcing banks to not lend. that is why we are in this dilemma. We can do both, drill, lower costs, and develop, but the left doesn't want it.

Sad, as the left is killing the middle american, and decimating the lower class. People cannot afford 100 buck fill ups, $25 for a hamburger and 50% increasing on their heating costs. ITs going to kill the people you so say you are trying to help.

Really? All for new tech?? Go back and read ALL your posts regarding EV's, Solar, anything Green. You have not made a single positive statement, only how and why it will never work, its too dirty to produce...... The guy who said he wont buy electric unless it gets 1000 miles on a charge. Gas prices are high due to oil company profit margins, Putins war, concern on futures.
Why post on your fake concern with lower/middle class americans, you are what Delta calls an "Elite".

Originally Posted by 95sn

Yes, we did the labor. Why double the cost if I can lift a 35 lb solar panel? 2 on the roof, one is on stands at the edge of property. 100% permitted. We pay about $3/mo at the river house. Solar panels actually work more efficiently in cold weather, as long as not covered in snow. Educate yourself debbiedeltadowner.

The illumination is lower as you head north for starters and they will get covered in substantial snow. You also have to make sure you can hold all that extra weight on your point loads with the panels. Dumping a ton or tons of snow on what used to be the whole roof now gets placed on the load points for the panels. You also have high wind thunder storms, lightning strikes, hail, tornados, etc. All these things are able to be engineered, however they are things that add cost and a destructive element to the life time of panels outside of kalifornia. The panels will be great in some places and not so great in others. I don't know why you people are onto this all or nothing approach. In the mean time, we think everyone has deep pockets and perfect weather like well to do kalifornians. You folks just think if you can regulate the other stuff out of existence, people will just magically come on board. That is why the state has 47% of the homeless in the country. They regulated normal people out of a low income existence in the state.

Originally Posted by 95sn

EV's would be perfect if we swapped the entire US fleet of mail trucks to EV.s. Charged overnight and used daily, School busses the same. Lots of ways to make advances that makes sense today.
We already have EV's that have over 500 horsepower and 300 mile range, the improvements are coming quickly. But feel free to sit there and think up all the problems we will surpass w/o a sweat. How long did you wait to get a cell phone? Still have a landline? FYI, I still love my truck too, cant live w/o out it. Also researching an electric motor swap for one of my classic VW's.

I agree. That is good example of working for some solutions. However your solar is not charging those things at night, so now you have to get back on the grid which adds stress to the grid. Need more capacity. Where you are you getting the energy?

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

I agree. That is good example of working for some solutions. However your solar is not charging those things at night, so now you have to get back on the grid which adds stress to the grid. Need more capacity. Where you are you getting the energy?

If you have decent grid level storage with either distributed battery systems or pumped hydro you can easily span times when production drops

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_energy_storage

Originally Posted by ralph

If you have decent grid level storage with either distributed battery systems or pumped hydro you can easily span times when production drops

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_energy_storage

A family of 4, 4 cars, 2 teenagers and mom works. all 4 are driving, How much solar energy can you produce? So who large of a system do you need? Lets not forget running the house, etc etc

Also, you now have 4 car payments that are 1k a month. Remember, most people have car payments, they cant drop cash. 50k cars are 1000k a month. Insuring 50k cars are very expensive for full coverage. 4 charging stations, 2 being outside, if you are lucky enough to own a garage, many dont have a garage.

JT, local restaurant bartender and waiter, uber nice guy, big green heart, could not get a loan for 1k a month, tried, just can swing the payment. We talked about his adventure in getting a tesla. In the end, he just does to make enough money to have one! So the green new deal is the wealth only green new deal.

Originally Posted by 95sn

Really? All for new tech?? Go back and read ALL your posts regarding EV's, Solar, anything Green. You have not made a single positive statement, only how and why it will never work, its too dirty to produce...... The guy who said he wont buy electric unless it gets 1000 miles on a charge. Gas prices are high due to oil company profit margins, Putins war, concern on futures.
Why post on your fake concern with lower/middle class americans, you are what Delta calls an "Elite".

I do care about the environment, but only to a realistic cost of human life and quality of life. There has to be balance. I am not a liberal, hence not an "elite" as my skin color or economic status does not define me or does it elevate me above anyone of any stature. All people are equal! I am not an oppressor or a victim.

I am all for moving forward with cleaner forms of energy and transportation, but not by closing pipelines, killing our energy independence, lowering our national sercurity, creating crushing inflation and bankrupting families.

Biden told the world that he was going to "work it out" and he is. The people truly responsible for this mess are the people who voted him into office! Buyers remorse is, sometimes, a good thing. People need to understand their actions have consequences, and this action comes with a big **** sandwich.

Originally Posted by dougr

I do care about the environment, but only to a realistic cost of human life and quality of life. There has to be balance. I am not a liberal, hence not an "elite" as my skin color or economic status does not define me or does it elevate me above anyone of any stature. All people are equal! I am not an oppressor or a victim.
blame
Biden
I am all for moving forward with cleaner forms of energy and transportation, but not by closing pipelines, killing our energy independence, lowering our national sercurity, creating crushing inflation and bankrupting families.

Biden told the world that he was going to "work it out" and he is. The people truly responsible for this mess are the people who voted him into office! Buyers remorse is, sometimes, a good thing. People need to understand their actions have consequences, and this action comes with a big **** sandwich.

LOL. You are an Elite, a rich white elite. Feel guilty? Florida has a law for that.
Based on each post you make you are 100% against moving forward, stuck in your funk. We can also become energy independent advancing toward EV's, but you would never consider it. The more, the faster, the better for natl security. Crushing inflation bankrupts no one. The number one cause bankrupting families in the USA is medical debt (over 60% of BK's) because we have crappy healthcare and your party refuses to help. All you can do is blame Biden, your go to response. Putins unprovoked war on Ukraine is causing worldwide shortages, price increases, inflation, but all you do is blame Biden. Why dont you ever mention the base causes like Putin? Oil companies are making record profits selling oil they bought at $60-90 a barrel as if it was $130/barrel. FYI, Biden doesnt run oil companies. Very few have Biden remorse, what do you think would be happening if anti constitution trump and his best friend Putin were running things? Another authoritarian paired up? Elections have consequences, your grifting cheater lost again, shut up about it already and eat your sandwich. You could always write a big check to replace Trump Force 1 to feel better about it.

Originally Posted by dougr

A family of 4, 4 cars, 2 teenagers and mom works. all 4 are driving, How much solar energy can you produce? So who large of a system do you need? Lets not forget running the house, etc etc

Not every house hold can or needs to be net zero what is important is moving towards that goal, if you get 25% there that's a 25% reduction in grid power. At the same time grid power can become cleaner and cleaner as renewable and grid storage gets added. There is no option to make second hand gas cars cleaner but second hand EV's get cleaner as grid power gets cleaner.

I don't get why you are stuck on having to buy 4 more 50k cars, is this family buying 4 brand new gas cars? As more and more EV's get sold in a few years they will be available is second hand cars at second hand prices.

Originally Posted by 95sn

LOL. You are an Elite, a rich white elite. Feel guilty? Florida has a law for that.
Based on each post you make you are 100% against moving forward, stuck in your funk. We can also become energy independent advancing toward EV's, but you would never consider it. The more, the faster, the better for natl security. Crushing inflation bankrupts no one. The number one cause bankrupting families in the USA is medical debt (over 60% of BK's) because we have crappy healthcare and your party refuses to help. All you can do is blame Biden, your go to response. Putins unprovoked war on Ukraine is causing worldwide shortages, price increases, inflation, but all you do is blame Biden. Why dont you ever mention the base causes like Putin? Oil companies are making record profits selling oil they bought at $60-90 a barrel as if it was $130/barrel. FYI, Biden doesnt run oil companies. Very few have Biden remorse, what do you think would be happening if anti constitution trump and his best friend Putin were running things? Another authoritarian paired up? Elections have consequences, your grifting cheater lost again, shut up about it already and eat your sandwich. You could always write a big check to replace Trump Force 1 to feel better about it.

So how do you know i am white, What if I identify as a black female? under your lefty rule book , this would make you a racist! HA your Puten BS is BS We stopped production when Biden got into office. He said we would and did. told the world to produce more while we declined in providing out own needs! That alone is irresponsible to the American people!. Allowed the inflation of crude, and pressured lending, stopped off shore exploration, pipeline development (so now we truck the oil, increasing costs and delaying production) all the while. telling oil companies to look elsewhere for oil.

Did this war have an impact, yes, was it the main impact NO! This admin is and will be until they are out.

AS for you Biden remorse, its over 65% and growing. Deny the truth, it does not matter, as the people see through the BS

"AS for you Biden remorse, its over 65% and growing."

Where does this number come from? I doubt pretty much anyone who voted for Biden regrets it because the alternative was just a complete p.o.s. as a human being. The narcissistic petulant lazy-minded ignorant grifter wasn't an option. I don't know anybody who regrets voting for Biden. As for gas prices, blaming Biden is just a go-to for the snowflakes still crying over Trump's well-deserved legitimate election loss. Sanctions are certainly part of the reason, but any decent human who might be POTUS would issue those.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gas-pri...news-explains/

Originally Posted by ralph

If you have decent grid level storage with either distributed battery systems or pumped hydro you can easily span times when production drops

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_energy_storage

That may work on a micro scale but not going to work on a grid scale. We have Lake Powell/ Hoover Dam and that thing is giant and still does not have enough energy to meet all the needs of the area. Of course, it is running out of water.

Originally Posted by brettw

"AS for you Biden remorse, its over 65% and growing."

Where does this number come from? I doubt pretty much anyone who voted for Biden regrets it because the alternative was just a complete p.o.s. as a human being. The narcissistic petulant lazy-minded ignorant grifter wasn't an option. I don't know anybody who regrets voting for Biden. As for gas prices, blaming Biden is just a go-to for the snowflakes still crying over Trump's well-deserved legitimate election loss. Sanctions are certainly part of the reason, but any decent human who might be POTUS would issue those.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gas-pri...news-explains/

Amazing how sanctions from a week ago all of a sudden get back dated a year. So called sanctions of Russian Oil is just making Putin even richer. He is still selling the oil. They are just reshuffling the deck chairs. I already spelled this out a few weeks ago and now it looks like some serious people are starting to look into it. It appears Russia may have been supporting European and American green groups to pressure those countries to get off their own supplies so they have to go to Russia. That guy you hate so much told Germany to their face this is what they did and it is coming back to haunt them. Coming back to haunt us. We get off our own supplies in the name of the environment even though we already have pretty tight controls over green house emissions on our fuel burning systems. Mean while china and russia are building coal plants like no ones business. While we sign these spread Americas wealth global treaties, russia and china are exempt and continue to pollute like crazy with over a billion people to service.

So because Putin and Xi are going nuts on Coal, that makes it good? Common sense evades you.

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

That may work on a micro scale but not going to work on a grid scale. We have Lake Powell/ Hoover Dam and that thing is giant and still does not have enough energy to meet all the needs of the area. Of course, it is running out of water.

What if they put a solar panel on the mail truck roof, Debbie?
What? No water at the 2nd largest lake in the country? And who is the climate change denier? Deltadebbiedowner.

Originally Posted by 95sn

What if they put a solar panel on the mail truck roof, Debbie?
What? No water at the 2nd largest lake in the country? And who is the climate change denier? Deltadebbiedowner.

Climate is always changing duffus. Never has stopped. Love how you authoritarians believe you can stop the weather.

Second lake in the country dries up when you keep adding millions of people to the desert and do not add any other sources of water. kalifornia has doubled in population in the last 30 or 40 years (mostly from foreign born people) and there have not been maybe one new water storage source built. Quit advocating for voters and do the right thing for your local environment.

A solar panel on a vehicle is not enough to run the truck. What are you a science denier or something?

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

kalifornia has doubled in population in the last 30 or 40 years (mostly from foreign born people)

Does it even matter to you if things you state are true or not?

Originally Posted by ralph

Does it even matter to you if things you state are true or not?

I have looked up the stats. Have you?

Yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr..._of_California

The net migration from California is negative, ie more people leave than arrive. Yet the population as close to doubled, therefore it is impossible to have more migrants entering than citizens being born in California.

Originally Posted by ralph

Yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr..._of_California

The net migration from California is negative, ie more people leave than arrive. Yet the population as close to doubled, therefore it is impossible to have more migrants entering than citizens being born in California.

You got me. Only about 23 to 24 million of the state is born in kalifornia or other US state out of the 39 million and change.

https://depts.washington.edu/moving1/California.shtml

not at all close to half

The push and mandate by California to move to complete Ev ‘s is pure lunacy , anyone thinking it’s fully sustainable is a complete ****ing moron. Anyone pushing that nonsense
Is a complete jackass. California can’t even handle the electric grid as it stands now. Yet energy idiots think they can handle 70% more power draw and be fine. Hysterical !!! The climate change idiots are some of the biggest hypocritical asshats in the world .

The idea solar and wind will power America completely is a farce that will never be obtained Putting stupid ideas with deadlines iinto bills and law exemplifies the pure mental retardation we are dealing with. Windmills don’t work where there's no wind , solar doesn’t work when it’s covered in snow, batteries go dead and to recycle those toxic commodities requires guess what , more petrol and more hazardous waste. .


EV’s are maybe 4% of the market place , They’re a niche market , not a sustainable mass produced option for an overwhelming majority of people living on the earth. We are no where near the infrastructure to even get that to 10% of the market place in any of our lifetimes on this board. I love how the guy from an island country is the poster boy for EV’s. He’s the top one percent flipping his over his high priced ev every 4 years because he can. Newest hummer Ev truck 100k , Rivian Ev Truck , 85k , Tesla SuV 90k. Who needs suvs ? Gas counter equailvalent of the average comp …… half the cost. To break even on initial up front costs to gas comparable models you have to keep your minimal 10-15 yrs. Solar panels with reduce your cost , well what do people do who have snow on their roof and clouds for half the year ? Oh they may heating elements to put around your panels , oh you mean more upfront astronomical costs for panels and systems ? Oh then there is this minor fact , 77-80% of vehicle sold in the us market are used. The used market has consistently increased exponentially while the demand for new hasn’t seen near the increase in sales . New car prices increases largely due to federally mandated safety tech have increased well above the average salary which accounts for the big shift in increasing used car sales. Cost being the single most driving force.


Let’s now discuss the green pushers again. Let’s really look at their policies. Biden funded and expansion of oil projects in other countries around the world . So it’s ok to support drilling and oil production off US soil where epa standards are no where near as strict , pollution. Is higher. So global warming is dangerous , we need green new deals , blah blah blah , but look over here we are just shifting and throwing billions at drilling projects across the map. So their pollutants the my claim so harmful don’t effect global climate change if they’re in other countries ? Hahahahahahahhaahahah. Yes that makes complete sense. Once again proving the idea of green energy is a farce and complete ponzi scheme to simply shift productions around rather then on us soil. This does nothing to reduce environmental effects. In fact shifting productions to other countries with less restrictive conditions does the complete opposite, at least according to their alleged “green push for global climate change. . That doesn’t even account for the arguments of shifting our dependency as a Nation from our own control and economic benefit to a foreign land.

Ok now let’s get to all the alleged green energy hooopla. Where are majority of solar panels and windmills made , yup China , one of our biggest enemies. Yea great idea let’s let China hold us hostage to energy dependance. Let’s go on to wind turbines. While “ production” has increased in the US , that’s simply assembling them. The parts are sourced globally with over 66% of the components coming from China . Once gain foreign decency out of our control of the market on energy is a great idea. How about all those minerals and resources for the lithium Ion batteries in the push to move to an all EV fleet? Where do those come from. Oh once again over 85% Li Ion batteries come from China with the materials sourced from other countries.



This **** is laughable , it’s absurd to listen to people tote this complete bull**** nonsense and the white house leftist imbeciles push the agenda daily. The fact of the matter is the left is anti US energy. It’s bills and plans do nothing but shift the US energy domain from self reliance to foreign dependancy. Til these idiots actually have a logical plan they’ll be laughed out of every conversation for being the mentally feeble, virtue signaling , idiots they are.


There is value in Ev’s , solar , and other sustainable sources of energy . No doubt about it. The difference is you need a focus on combination of both fossil fuel and electric as well a nuclear , with a realistic view and ideas on what’s obtainable to have any chance of success. The virtue signaling and unrealistic ideology spewed from the left about clean energy is the biggest farce going . Feel free to explain how shifting our dependence to foreign counties even more in light of what’s going on in current events is the best idea for our country? Ukraine is under siege because it’s lands are one of the most energy valuable lands in world and the elites know it. It has zero to do with democracy.

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

You got me. Only about 23 to 24 million of the state is born in kalifornia or other US state out of the 39 million and change.

https://depts.washington.edu/moving1/California.shtml

not at all close to half

I stand corrected!

Originally Posted by ralph

I stand corrected!

And now maybe you understand when I point to kalifornia policies and how they are A) not aligned with the rest of the US and B) how they could be manipulated by foreign interests for the enrichment of those other countries

Originally Posted by ralph

Does it even matter to you if things you state are true or not?

of course not, he thinks trump won. He thinks massive voter fraud w/o even a hint of proof whatsoever. Doesnt understand California is leading. His tin hat too tight. LOL

Originally Posted by 95sn

What if they put a solar panel on the mail truck roof, Debbie?
What? No water at the 2nd largest lake in the country? And who is the climate change denier? Deltadebbiedowner.

Going to get worse once we start dumping millions of batteries into the ground, 5x the mining for materials. Better have allot fo nuclear or we will be burning more oil, gas, coal to make electricity. LOL Funny, fools. The west cant keep their lights on! last summer, Kali was asking people to not charge their cars. HAHAHA! I think they need to pass a law that the west coast in only allowed to get their power from wind and solar, only use electric cars, buses, and cannot take or use any form of fossil fuel product.

You guys would be wearing fig leaves and rubbing sticks together

Originally Posted by dougr

Going to get worse once we start dumping millions of batteries into the ground, 5x the mining for materials. Better have allot fo nuclear or we will be burning more oil, gas, coal to make electricity. LOL Funny, fools. The west cant keep their lights on! last summer, Kali was asking people to not charge their cars. HAHAHA! I think they need to pass a law that the west coast in only allowed to get their power from wind and solar, only use electric cars, buses, and cannot take or use any form of fossil fuel product.

You guys would be wearing fig leaves and rubbing sticks together

Another uplifting and elementary level take by dougie downer, lol, he says he is in favor of the environment. Yet, only gives errant takes on why something wont work. He does not know that batteries are recycled. shhhh, dont tell him. Why dont you explain why a hydrogen powered car wont work, they emit only water vapor. Or a gas/elec combo? Or better yet just shut up. The west coast (CA) does just fine producing electricity, more than enough to power A/C units in 100*+ temps month after month. Then we contribute more to the US economy than any other state in the US and pay lazy red states for being here. Sure, take our $$ and complain about our cleaner decisions. Fool. Why are you red states slacking so much? Too busy doing the important stuff?
like removing the need to be licensed to carry guns when shootings at all time highs? Too busy stopping all the non existent Voter fraud? Too Busy making laws to make abortion illegal, so women have to travel to real state to get a medical procedure. Wasnt it oil rich Texas who couldnt support their infrastructure and 100s died in the freeze while good ole Ted Cruz took a Cancun vacation? If you think the goal is to eliminate all oil production, you have been watching too much fake Fox news. Under-educated. Oil will always be around.

Originally Posted by dougr

Going to get worse once we start dumping millions of batteries into the ground, 5x the mining for materials. Better have allot fo nuclear or we will be burning more oil, gas, coal to make electricity. LOL Funny, fools. The west cant keep their lights on! last summer, Kali was asking people to not charge their cars. HAHAHA! I think they need to pass a law that the west coast in only allowed to get their power from wind and solar, only use electric cars, buses, and cannot take or use any form of fossil fuel product.

You guys would be wearing fig leaves and rubbing sticks together

I live here and agree. They are heading that way soon enough anyway. Just tear the bandaid off. Maybe they can use the infrastructure money from the feds to put in more overpasses. The ones they have now are almost to full capacity with people living under them. Overpasses are the new green housing alternative in kali.

Originally Posted by 95sn

Another uplifting and elementary level take by dougie downer, lol, he says he is in favor of the environment. Yet, only gives errant takes on why something wont work. He does not know that batteries are recycled. shhhh, dont tell him. Why dont you explain why a hydrogen powered car wont work, they emit only water vapor. Or a gas/elec combo? Or better yet just shut up. The west coast (CA) does just fine producing electricity, more than enough to power A/C units in 100*+ temps month after month. Then we contribute more to the US economy than any other state in the US and pay lazy red states for being here. Sure, take our $$ and complain about our cleaner decisions. Fool. Why are you red states slacking so much? Too busy doing the important stuff?
like removing the need to be licensed to carry guns when shootings at all time highs? Too busy stopping all the non existent Voter fraud? Too Busy making laws to make abortion illegal, so women have to travel to real state to get a medical procedure. Wasnt it oil rich Texas who couldnt support their infrastructure and 100s died in the freeze while good ole Ted Cruz took a Cancun vacation? If you think the goal is to eliminate all oil production, you have been watching too much fake Fox news. Under-educated. Oil will always be around.

Recycled is not 100%. I guess you don't understand conservation of energy. Almost daily you prove you are the residence science denier. If facts and science do not meet up with your privileged world view, you just call them a buzz kill or a downer.

Originally Posted by 95sn

Another uplifting and elementary level take by dougie downer, lol, he says he is in favor of the environment. Yet, only gives errant takes on why something wont work. He does not know that batteries are recycled. shhhh, dont tell him. Why dont you explain why a hydrogen powered car wont work, they emit only water vapor. Or a gas/elec combo? Or better yet just shut up. The west coast (CA) does just fine producing electricity, more than enough to power A/C units in 100*+ temps month after month. Then we contribute more to the US economy than any other state in the US and pay lazy red states for being here. Sure, take our $$ and complain about our cleaner decisions. Fool. Why are you red states slacking so much? Too busy doing the important stuff?
like removing the need to be licensed to carry guns when shootings at all time highs? Too busy stopping all the non existent Voter fraud? Too Busy making laws to make abortion illegal, so women have to travel to real state to get a medical procedure. Wasnt it oil rich Texas who couldnt support their infrastructure and 100s died in the freeze while good ole Ted Cruz took a Cancun vacation? If you think the goal is to eliminate all oil production, you have been watching too much fake Fox news. Under-educated. Oil will always be around.

Shootings are only at an all time high in democrat areas. You know. Defund the police areas. Working great! keep it up.

Murder is a medical procedure? Got it. Can't take the morning after pill?

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

Shootings are only at an all time high in democrat areas. You know. Defund the police areas. Working great! keep it up.

Murder is a medical procedure? Got it. Can't take the morning after pill?

News to Delta, Abortion has been legal in the United States for half a century. Guess you arnt keeping up with the latest 50 year old news.
8 of the top 10 states highest murder rates voted for trump.
https://www.thirdway.org/report/the-...murder-problem

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

Recycled is not 100%. I guess you don't understand conservation of energy. Almost daily you prove you are the residence science denier. If facts and science do not meet up with your privileged world view, you just call them a buzz kill or a downer.

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The point I am making re Debbie Downer is that every new technology does not come out of the box perfect, ready and complete, even the invention of the wheel. They all are improved over time. Cellular phones, Gas powered cars, electricity....all started out small and were improved until they are what we have today. You dont seem to understand its always a process. Edison famously failed thousands of times before his light bulb worked. If you nuts had your way we would still be using morse code on teletype machines or waiting for Western Union for a telegram. You clowns with zero training, zero experience, zero knowledge about EV technology, you never evened owned one and think you know something. Classic fools. Why dont you explain how a computer works or how to manage a $200 million venture capital fund or how to do a heart transplant next. Truth is you know nothing about it but wont stop bashing it, there is a word for that, Ultracrepidarian, but I like DebbieDelta/DougieDowner better. Name a single technology, any one in history that hasnt been improved since inception. Thats why.

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

And now maybe you understand when I point to kalifornia policies and how they are A) not aligned with the rest of the US and B) how they could be manipulated by foreign interests for the enrichment of those other countries

How would that manipulation work? Countries send people to live in California to vote in politicians who are friendly to that country?

Originally Posted by 95sn

News to Delta, Abortion has been legal in the United States for half a century. Guess you arnt keeping up with the latest 50 year old news.
8 of the top 10 states highest murder rates voted for trump.
https://www.thirdway.org/report/the-...murder-problem

The places those murders too place where democrat cities. Just like kalifornia and new york with all their foreign born voters try and influence the rest of the country, these cities try and influence the rest of their states.

Show me the data where these Trump voting states are the highest murders.

I guess you are not keeping up with current news about the trauma that women go through, what science says about the baby being viable at ealier times. I guess you are also not keeping up with current times that your murderous eugenics hero of hillary clinton only came up with all this because she wanted to keep the black population down. Her actual words.

Originally Posted by ralph

How would that manipulation work? Countries send people to live in California to vote in politicians who are friendly to that country?

They vote in politicians who are open to more globalist policies. Open boarders and so on. They can actually over take America due to our laws that allow you to become a citizen just by being born in the country. Send enough people over, you change loyalties of a region then that region puts pressure on the rest of the country. Who do you think most of the open border activists are? Certainly not people in Ohio. We know that some countries send over military people to end their careers performing industrial spying and things like that.

They are already finding ties to Putin and environmental groups advocating Europe getting rid of their energy independence so they had to rely on Russia. Germany pretty much has dismantled its entire nuke energy program over that. I laid this out a month or so on here. Other countries are only supporting the US and mostly to get off fossil fuels of their own because they know if war were to break out, we and they could not possibly fight the war. That is mostly why Germany lost ww2. They did not have the energy. Russia knows this. China knows this.

At the end of the day, it a policy makes zero sense it is being done for a reason. I would like to think that leaders are simply dumb. They are not. They have think tanks advising them of the words to use. These are all deliberate acts.

Originally Posted by DeltaHoosier

The places those murders too place where democrat cities. Just like kalifornia and new york with all their foreign born voters try and influence the rest of the country, these cities try and influence the rest of their states.

Show me the data where these Trump voting states are the highest murders.

I guess you are not keeping up with current news about the trauma that women go through, what science says about the baby being viable at ealier times. I guess you are also not keeping up with current times that your murderous eugenics hero of hillary clinton only came up with all this because she wanted to keep the black population down. Her actual words.

Hilarious. Its Hilary Clinton, Lock Her UP!!