I'm surprised not to see a post here yet about vaccinations yet with all the hype and daily news stories about them and measles and such. I remember we had a thread years ago about this. So we know it has been proven several times over there is no link between autism and vaccinations. The vast majority of doctors are going to tell you to get them for your kids. I think it's been pretty well proven that the benefits far outweigh the risks. On this point, let's not post the 1 extreme example of some kid dying due to a vaccination when a great number more people have or do die from the disease that vaccination is for. So with all this said, do we still have parents on here that don't vaccinate their kids at all? Are there any that still refuse to get the measles vaccination even though it's people doing this that have brought this disease back with more and more cases of measles each year now? If so, WHY?
It is your right (i suppose) to not get your kids vaccinated. But it should then be a schools right to not allow your kids to come without being vaccinated and put other kids at risk. These are all preventable diseases and the fact they are coming back because of people's poor decisions is ridiculous.
This is a really tough issue. As a parent, it's a no-brainer to get most of the vaccinations now available. However, do I want a law that allows the government to tell me what I am required to inject into my kids. There are a whole lot of areas of our government that are just plain incompetent. I'm pissed about having to put my personal information into a health care system that I know is riddled with bugs, but the government has forced me to. Having the same idiots determine what goes into my kids body, is another level.
I think it's easy for stuff like measles because that's pretty much a slam dunk vaccine. When something is that tried and true, I might not be against a law requiring everybody to get it. However, what if these dopes come up with a vaccine tomorrow for the cold and want to require everybody to take it. Sorry, but I'll deal with my kids having colds for the next ten years while other people take it and we can monitor the results for a decade. I do not want the government to have that much power.
I think for a long time people who didn't vaccinate were doing so because there really was a low risk against getting something since 99% (or whatever it is) were getting vaccinated. Now that so many people jumped on the no vaccine bandwagon, the risk/threat of getting a disease is real. There was just too many people not vaccinated to be safe from it. Just my opinion.
I say, go ahead and use your freedom to choose not to have your child vaccinated as long as my state government is free to make a law that states that no child who hasn't been vaccinated is allowed within the state borders. My guess is that it wouldn't be long before some backwards government hating state like Mississippi became a leaper colony for people infected with measles and such. Then again, we could just do the sensible thing and require everyone to be vaccinated. Keep in mind that even before school children under 6 are at risk because they are too young to get the second booster. Children under 6 months can't even get the first shot. Your baby can get these diseases long before they have set foot in a school. Do we need to raise our kids in a bubble like Bubble Boy until they're in 1st grade because someone got an email forward once about a conspiracy with vaccinations? I don't agree with making the cold vaccine, if there ever was one, a requirement by law but there is some common sense to be used here. The Brady Bill didn't send the cops to collect all of your guns and Viet Nam going Communist didn't cause the rest of the world to follow either. Sometimes these domino affect fears are just unfounded phobias.
... exceptions for people who have a legitimate medical reason such as an allergy for not getting vaccinated of course. These people are at additional risk from those who choose not to be vaccinated for conspiracy reasons as well.
I think if a parent does not want the child vaccinated, fine..... but, if that child gets sick and/or dies from a disease they could have prevented, the parent can be charged.
Also, so long as the majority of parents DO vaccinate their kids, non-vaccinated children can be kept out of public schools. I saw somewhere that they won't allow Peanut Butter in some school because of allergies, but non-vaccinated disease transporters are okay?
Look outside the window of these United States for a rational answer. There is a reason that many other (evolved) countries vaccinate at 13.
I am not against vaccinating kids.
I AM 100% against vaccinating infants.
I suggest you watch your perfectly healthy first born son turn autistic within 24 hours post vaccination. Might add a taste of perspective.
After that little setback I will wait until age 12 to vaccinate the other two. Middle school is age 12 so that is my line. Their brains will be a bit more robust and resilient at that point. The eldest will always have issues, thanks big Pharm.. go F yourselves.
This is my life, my kids and my choice.
Out.
Baitkiller, it has been proven that there is no link between vaccinations and autism. Ask your doctor the next time you see him/her. It's been proven over and over. There is no debate about this any longer.
The problem with people who say it's my kid, my choice is that those people are putting others at risk - exactly why we have a measles problem again. And since vaccinations for things like measles do a great job of protecting you but are not 100%, those people who don't or hold off on vaccinating their kids contribute to spreading the disease, which does affect some people who were educated enough about it to vaccinate. So basically, I say those peoples' rights stop where mine start. Personal and religions exemptions should be done away with for many vaccinations. If you don't want your kids vaccinated, fine - they shouldn't be allowed in public schools.
if you don't think children should be vaccinated, please look up herd immunity and report back.
When YOUR CHILD dies or almost dies because you did not vaccinate them how will you feel?
Better yet how will you feel when some other parent does not get their child vaccinated and your child gets sick because they genuinely have an immune issue and cannot receive vaccines, how would you feel?
plus do realize how vaccines work? it is the same as exposing the child to an actual disease as far as the immune system is concerned, with the exception of any negative effects of the disease.
To be clear, my kid has taken every vaccine available but I respect the right for parents to raise there own kids without the Government putting there oar in.
Normally i would agree but vaccinations are way too easy and way too cheap to NOT mandate. It is a huge public health issue. If it ONLY affected those that did not got vaccinated I would not care. But it doesn't, it affects the health of others too.
Normally i would agree but vaccinations are way too easy and way too cheap to NOT mandate. It is a huge public health issue. If it ONLY affected those that did not got vaccinated I would not care. But it doesn't, it affects the health of others too.
Sorry, i don't understand how that works, can you explain?
Herd immunity is essentially what it sounds like. By having a majority of the population immunized we protect those who are not. There are certain scenarios where individuals cannot receive vaccines or have a suppressed immune system, for example someone who is allergic to a vaccine, immunodeficiencies, a cancer patient, and in some people certain vaccines just don't initiate an immune response. These people are few in number, and by the majority of the population being immunized, the spread of disease is suppressed or even eliminated, therefore protecting those that cannot be immunized/are not immune by inhibiting the spread of disease to those people. A lot of these disease can kill or have lasting effects on a child, think polio even though it is a bit of straw man.
The more people that fail to vaccinate their children, the greater the risk of disease transmission to those who are not protected, we reduce our herd immunity.
People get all worked up and do not fully understand how a vaccine works, there are several different types, live attenuated(live virus, cannot replicate), inactivated("dead" whole virus, toxoid (trace amounts of toxins), and conjugate (protein portion off of a virus/bacteria). Each of these has the same method of action in regards to your immune system: (in the simplest terms possible) the immune system sees the chemical compound, activates, builds up immunity through memory cells that produce antibodies. The second time the disease or compound the immune response is much stronger and can eliminate the disease before it manifests. It works the same way as any disease introduced to the system.
Okay, that's all well and good simple, but what about adjuvants?
Adjuvants are needed to enhance the immune response, you're introducing such a small amount of toxin/virus/protein to the blood stream it may not invoke an immune response. The adjuvants are simply a foreign matter that are designed to essentially irritate your immune system and call attention to the contents.
How about Mercury?
Glad you asked, thimerosal was a popular adjuvant/preservation added to vaccines in the past. It is metabolized to ethyl-Mercury, which just so happens to be easily excreted with no ill effects unlike methyl-Mercury which is very dangerous in large amounts.
The autism argument is one of the more ridiculous arguments I have heard, vaccines trigger an immune response in the same way that actual virus/bacteria work, so how would that possibly cause autism? Every landmark case has produced footage of children prior to vaccinations where the child exhibits pre autistic traits. The vaccine schedule is similar to that of an autism diagnosis. Hence the panic theory of vaccines causing autism.
Vaccines are so benign, way cheaper than hospital care, and such a public health issue it is ridiculous to not just get it done.
simplej is referring to what I did above. You're playing the odds basically. An un-vaccinated kid on my daughter's swim team that was 5 or 6 years old got whooping cough somehow and then spread it to about 8 other kids on the team that were 10 to 13 who hadn't had their TDAP booster yet. They had to close down the pool, drain it, clean it, etc. and then 2 of the kids were out for about 8 weeks because it took them down so hard. My daughter didn't get it and I think it's because she had the booster about 3 months prior to the situation. People were pretty pizzed and mean to the parent of the kid who brought it in. My kid changed swim teams shortly thereafter so I'm not sure what else happened with that.
Oh OK, I understand about herd immunity. That doesn't change the fact, herd immunity only benefits members who choose not to immunise. If you have immunised and are up to date with your shots then unimmunised members doesn't effect your protection.
No it doesn't, the point is not to protect those who chose not to immunize but to protect those who CANNOT be immunized or are Immunocompromised, or even infants who have developed an immune system .
By choosing not to immunize you're putting yourself and those with depressed immune systems at risk, because now you can spread the disease.
If there wasn't this population that you put at risk, who would care?
What is the % of the population who can't immunise?
Like i said, you don't need to convince me of the value of being immunised, my family and i am, what i am trying to understand is the reasonableness of forcing other people who have a different opinion to be injected with stuff they don't want in there bodies. That is a big call imo, I'm not in to that type of fascism.
I suggest you watch your perfectly healthy first born son turn autistic within 24 hours post vaccination. Might add a taste of perspective.
24 hours? Seriously? I'm sorry to hear that, I don't wish that upon anyone and that is something you and your family have to live with for the rest of his life. If someone said that their kid became autistic in 24 hours to you, don't you think you would find it a little bit unbelievable (not knowing what you know now)? You drop it on us like it happens all of the time yet "they" tell us that there is no link. Don't take people's comments as a personal attack, I think they are just a little when they hear something like that because you are going against a lot of research that is out there.
Primary immunodeficiencies?
1/10,000
Secondary immunodeficiencies?
God only knows, there's simply too many different causes to maintain an accurate count.
You can also add cancer patients and those taking immunosuppressant drugs, infants, etc etc. it's a lot more common than you may think. Add in people who cannot get vaccines due to other health issues...
You've got a growing list.
Oh well, perhaps because I have studied all the science behind it I am not afraid of it and see no need to put others at risk due to fear without base. It's honestly not asking much to go to the doctor, get a shot and protect yourself and those around you.
If it didn't affect other members of the population who essentially can't help themselves or their exposure I would not care one bit.
Here is a story that illustrates the importance of people getting vaccinated if they are able to...these poor kids are not even old enough to receive the vaccination and are now sick, likely because someone else CHOSE not to have their kids vaccinated.
Most, if not all, private daycare facilities mandate vaccinations, so I doubt they picked it up at this center, but I am sure it spread from kid to kid there.
Vaccines just make sense, and I just don't see why people get all up in arms about it. I don't necessarily think it needs to be a law, though. We probably wouldn't even be having this discussion if the false autism research was never published.
The only vaccine I have a problem with is the timing of the hep vaccine that they want to dump into a newborn as soon as the kid slides down the tunnel (among all the other things they do to a newborn). We actually opted out of that one for our two and deferred the first shot until each kid was 3-4 weeks old. It didn't put them off of any of their vaccine schedules and worked right into their routine visits.
So was it the measles vaccination that gave us the scar on our arms as kids?
I think was the polio vaccine. I had measles as a kid (I'm 59). The problem is that not all people become immune after getting the measles vaccine. Everyone getting vaccinated reduces the prevalence of the disease such that everyone is safe, including those who the vaccine doesn't take and those who aren't old enough to get it.
So was it the measles vaccination that gave us the scar on our arms as kids?
Actually that was Smallpox. Thanks to vaccines, Smallpox has been eradicated, and people no longer get that vaccine. It's a good thing that one was mandatory back in the day.
Just so I understand...
Ebola is highly contagious very deadly disease. There is no known vaccination or cure (other than some experimental stuff w/enough stock for about 3 people).
Measles is a highly contagious rash. that kills only about 0.2% of infected people (in developed countries). For which there is a widely available vaccine with approximately 92% of the US population already vaccinated against it by the time they're 12 months old.
How was one just pure media hype, and the other is an actual serious issue to be concerned with?
Also, why has no one mentioned the correlation between the huge influx of illegal children last summer (with zero medical records and most likely no vaccinations whatsoever) and the sudden re-emergence of measles?
The probability of an adverse reaction to a vaccine is 1 in a million. The probability of developing severe complications or death from a communicable and preventable disease like whooping cough is much higher. It's all about risk/benefit. The Autism link is nonsense, as is the fears of mercury.
The surge of illegal immigrants being integrated into our public system is a major public health concern and an assault on our kids well being. Vaccinations should absolutely be mandatory in public schools. 16 kids just tested positive for TB exposure in Sacramento. I hope people come to their senses and realize the importance of herd immunity.
Now I wish I kept by public health nurse cert up to date, I have a feeling the CDC is going to be needing more personnel in the coming years.
One last thought, If you are anti-vax are you anti sugar? Sugar is a more harmful poison to the body than any "mercury laiden live virus vaccine"
Last edited by wakeboardertj; 02-13-2015 at 10:40 PM.
My wife and I do not vaccinate our kids. They are healthy kids, they play a lot outside, they swim, surf, they don't sit on there asses an watch tv or play video games, they eat tons of veggies, fruits, and are super educated about good healthy real food (aka fuel for your body). I believe that the news scares the **** out of people and its actually pretty sad. What is really sad is how some people think that a kid that is not vaccinated has a bunch of diseases. Do more research and don't ask the doctor because they are for vaccines... do you think they are going to tell you that it is bad? (it is all a big business) PROFIT!!! That is like asking Monsanto if GMO's are good.
Arun, so you think that doctors are blindfolded from the truth about vaccines because pharmaceutical companies charge money for them? Vaccine producers provide invaluable protection for the immuno-compromised population while PREVENTING disease with a one time shot, with perhaps a booster 10 years down the road. Wouldn't pharm companies make a lot more money TREATING active disease?
Why would they go through all the trouble, spending millions and millions of dollars on clinical trials, research, etc. just to release a tainted product that they know will cause harm? All the while creating a liability to get sued if adverse reactions are linked to the vaccine down the road....
Don't get me wrong, Big Pharm is a scary powerful economic entity, and our population as a whole is over medicated. But, vaccines and herd immunity are imperative if we want to keep potentially deadly communicable diseases at bay.
Last edited by wakeboardertj; 02-14-2015 at 12:14 AM.
Taylor Jensen, apparently the Big Pharm doesn't have to worry about getting sue which would mean PROFIT with no risk. I am no expert but this is very interesting
On February 22, 2011 the U.S. Supreme Court shielded drug companies from all liability for harm caused by vaccines mandated by government when companies could have made a safer vaccine.
From now on, drug companies selling vaccines in America will not be held accountable by a jury of our peers in a court of law if those vaccines brain damage us but could have been made less toxic.
If you get paralyzed by a flu shot or your child has a serious reaction to a vaccine required for school and becomes learning disabled, epileptic, autistic, asthmatic, diabetic or mentally retarded, you are on your own.
While that ruling does look sketchy it was necessary to keep the thousands of parents from jumping on the "vaccines caused autism" bandwagon. One of the Supreme Court justices put it nicely "Vaccine manufacturers fund from their sales an informal, efficient compensation program for vaccine injuries; in exchange they avoid costly tort litigation and the occasional disproportionate jury verdict. Congress enacted this deal to coax manufacturers back into the vaccine market."
1 in a million adverse reactions from vaccine is an acceptable fact of life, an infant dying from whooping cough should not be.
Are you talking about the "Vaccine Injury Trust Fund"? The fund that is created by charging millions of Americans a "surcharge" for the annual flu shot and other vaccines. Don't be fooled my friend. This is a big business and they have more money than enough money to brainwash you.
Think about it... what's in it for those us that choose not to vaccinate? Money? Obviously not.
What's in it for the vaccine companies? Money!!! It really is that simple and when you really understand how businesses run, then it is just common sense.
I have 3 kids... my wife is an expert and I have become aware and I am educating myself. I don't allow people to tell me what I can put in my body without fully researching what can happen. I do the same thing with food... There is no way that I am going to buy something from the grocery store without reading what the ingredients are. It is about being aware and taking our health seriously. Unfortunately, with 225,000 deaths per year from iatrogenic causes(illness caused by medical examination or treatment), you better believe I am going to question what I told by a doctor. This can go back and forth forever but I have to wake up early to go out on a boat : ) Disclaimer: I don't have one
I hate it when people talk out of their asses about pharmaceutical profit: do you realize that it would be better for the industry to allow you to suffer and get paid for a small molecule or biologic to treat you for hundreds of dollars a dose?
There's a reason very small companies manufacture vaccines, and it has nothing to do with profits.
If the vaccine companies had some hidden agenda to sicken the masses then they are doing a horrible job at it.
You can't take an anomaly of some poor kid having a severe immune response causing an encephalopathy or anaphylaxis and point the finger at the vaccine. Many peer reviewed studies show that alterations in a specific gene accounted for the rare cases of encephalopathy s/p vaccine. In these rare instances genetics are the culprit, not the vaccine. But try telling that to a crazed parent, all they can see through their emotions is their kid being stabbed with a needle of poison.
Arun said, "My wife and I do not vaccinate our kids."
Don't you have to vaccinate your kids before they go to school?
I don't know if my sister vaccinated their kids because they were home schooled, but her youngest kid finally got into high school(her choice) and is now studying physics at a college in Florida. So, tell us more about your kids education.
My wife and I do not vaccinate our kids. They are healthy kids, they play a lot outside, they swim, surf, they don't sit on there asses an watch tv or play video games, they eat tons of veggies, fruits, and are super educated about good healthy real food (aka fuel for your body). I believe that the news scares the **** out of people and its actually pretty sad. What is really sad is how some people think that a kid that is not vaccinated has a bunch of diseases. Do more research and don't ask the doctor because they are for vaccines... do you think they are going to tell you that it is bad? (it is all a big business) PROFIT!!! That is like asking Monsanto if GMO's are good.
Your kids sound a lot like native americans before contact with Europeans.
Arun, how do you think we completely eradicated smallpox? Why do you think Polio is non existent in this and every other civilized country on the planet? Back in 2000, it was announced that measles were eradicated in the U.S. This was all due to vaccines. It's ignorant people like you and your wife that have helped bring measles back. If more people believe like you did in the past, we'd still have a smallpox and polio problem. You and your wife and people like you need to do a MUCH better job of educating yourselves about vaccines, because right now you have failed. If your children ever get measles that's your fault. If in the future while traveling abroad and they get some disease that we regularly vaccinate for in this country, that's on you. To say that all doctors just push vaccines so pharmaceutical companies can make money is just plain wrong and stupid!
There are more side effects of getting the shots than actually getting the diseases. All kids are sick now. Allergies, asthma, adhd, and autism are the new norm. Adults are developing allergies later in life. Why? Because our immune systems are being compromised by all these shots (not to mention food through the isles of Safeway with High Fructose Corn Syrup) that are bypassing our body's normal line of fighting illness. Instead of allowing your child's body to fight a fever, we dose them up on medicine, so we can get a good night's sleep instead of training their bodies to fight infection.
I am not saying to live on McDonald's, play video games all day, and don't vaccinate your children. Along with non vaccination comes with responsible eating, immunity building, alternative doctors and providers, natural herbs, and a lot of exercise, all of these things maintain strength, health, and quickly allow us to fight infection.
The CDC is a for-profit agency. The Academy of Pediatrics is a for-profit trade association. The Vaccine Injury Compensation Fund protects pharmaceutical companies from being sued. EVER. The past president of the CDC is currently the president for the biggest pharmaceutical company. Google the incestuous relationship between the CDC and pharmaceutical companies. Same goes for the FDA and Monsanto.
And if your kid is vaccinated and protected from the disease, why are you so worried about my kid? Did you know that your vaccinated kid is contagious with the measles after he gets the shot? While my non vax kid is ready to get the measles because he is healthy and his immune system is ready, so I am not scared like everyone else. And the measles is not a big deal. It's like the chickenpox when all of us were younger, we all have stories about it, but it was really just a right of passage. Did you know a mom passes on immunity from the chickenpox or the measles as a breast-feeding mother down to their child for these diseases as they are breast-feeding? So why would someone get a shot for the chickenpox or the measles when they are still breast-feeding their child. Oh right, women don't breastfeed anymore because it's not convenient -- it's "gross" when a 2 year old is breastfeed. Your pediatrician doesn't tell you that.
And vaccines cause autism? That is not true. There is so much money protecting the pharmaceutical companies against letting this information out, that they are able to convince you that anyone who speaks out against them is lying to you. Google the vaccine injury compensation fund and the family in Italy who was awarded money for their child being a victim of the MMR vaccine and resulting in autism. You don't hear about that, because the pharmaceutical company is not responsible. Also google the CDC whistleblowers who left the CDC recently because they admitted to altering research to meet their bosses demands that said that there was no link between autism in the MMR vaccine. People are starting to speak out. But you have to consider that there is so much money behind all of these big companies that their primary goal is to provide more shots and SCARE tactics, not to have people start getting soft.
4 months ago it was the flu shot, Which by the way was only 20% effective this year. Two months ago it was ebola and potentially developing a brand-new vaccine for it. This month it's the measles.
Jo Shmoe, in California there is a personal beliefs exemption form that is signed by both the pediatrician and the parent. My kids go to an amazing school, great education. Most people assume that they have to get the vaccination because that is what they are told but if they did a little research they would find out it is not so... at least not in California. Thanks for your concern! : )
"Did you know that your vaccinated kid is contagious with the measles after he gets the shot? " FALSE.
"There are more side effects of getting the shots than actually getting the diseases." Really??? I can't remember the last time i was gasping for breath after getting the TDAP. I don't remember getting fevers and rash after the MMR. Mean while the resurgence of pertusis in Butte county CA and other neighboring counties is a major public health concern.
Live attenuated virus does not equal live virus. Even if a child develops a rash as part of an immune response to the MMR they are not contagious.
The hype about the measles is not necessarily that it is killing kids, but an alarming reality to how fast communicable diseases that were considered eradicated are making a come back. People are pissed off because your kids can now be potential carriers to less healthy, immunocompromised patient's like leukemia patient's that cannot get the vaccine. You are throwing a huge wrench into a system that protects everyone. A right of passage for a normal healthy kid can turn into a passage into the afterlife for a patient that's not a candidate for these vaccines.
I hope your kid isn't the one rushed into my ER experiencing febrile seizures because you are above giving your kids tylenol/motrin in the name of natural immunity.
Last edited by wakeboardertj; 02-17-2015 at 10:09 PM.
Just leave him be TJ, his last post shows a high level of ignorance to the way that pharmaceutical companies interact with the public and government which only perpetuates his own conspiracy theory. I hope he doesn't carry any type of health insurance, if only he knew how that influenced the equation...
If he wants to believe adhd does not come from stuffing your kid in front of an Xbox for 6 hours a day, allergies/asthma aren't from environmental factors or genetic differences, and that autism is well, we don't know where it comes from but the link to autism has been disproven through numerous scientific journals, then he won't see the light now that is for sure.
This all stems from that bogus Andrew Wakefield article, that quack had his license revoked when everyone found out what poor science was used.
This all stems from that bogus Andrew Wakefield article, that quack had his license revoked when everyone found out what poor science was used.
This is well beyond bad science. He completely falsified his report and subjected children to unnecessary invasive procedures as part of a business plan between himself and a group of lawyers so they could sue pharmaceutical companies and then market their own autism detection kits.
Let me say that again, he made up this report and tortured children to get rich. There is zero science to prove a link between MMR and autism and this man should be in prison for life.
Telling an anti vaccine person that they are wrong about autism is like trying to tell a birther that they are wrong about Obama being a Kenyan born muslim. There is just so much mis-information now that all you have to do it type a few words into google and you'll get all the ""proof"" that you need to support your delusion.
If your child who could not be immunized contracts something from some kid who's parents think eating healthy and running around protects them from measles and every other virus and doesn't disclose that to administrators you should be able to personally inflict equal pain to those parents that your child experienced. You think eating healthy is going to keep your kid from getting rabies? What about Tetnis(though that isnt a virus). Your children are your responsibility, and if you make ass hat decisions without informing other parents and putting them out into school/day care whatever you are directly responsible for the risk to all the children who didnt get to have the option of getting protection. This is ridiculous. Vaccinate your damn kids or live in a hole and stay the hell away from the rest of us.
"Vaccinate your damn kids or live in a hole and stay the hell away from the rest of us".... Seriously??? Your a KOOK!
Just to let you guys know... I was 100% for vaccines and thought the exact same way that you guys did. I had absolutely no information about vaccines other than what I was told so, I went based on that without questioning the doctors, until someone mentioned that some of the vaccine ingredients are random. Random? So, I took it upon myself to find out what was "random" and looked into the ingredients. I started to question why there was formaldehyde amongst other weird ingredients. I figured there is no way that a vaccine could have this stuff? But I was wrong so I researched formaldehyde and so that these are the known side effects. http://vaxtruth.org/2011/08/vaccine-ingredients/
Wouldn't you have some questions about the ingredients and wonder if there are side effects?
At this point I started questioning more and continued to find out more information as well as trying to get information from my doctor but he was not much help. His answers were vague and when I asked him about formaldehyde he said he had no idea. So meeting other people and even seeing doctors (that had researched vaccines) were not vaccinated there kids that really raised a black flag for me.
My wife and I decided to make a choice and we don't regret it. I am fully open to conversation and some references.
Some of use feel this way because we have studied to topic extensively and understand all of, or most of, the science behind a vaccine and the way the immune system functions.
I would not call VAXTRUTH reliable as a source, please use scientific journals or call manufacturers to inquire about their products... A vaccine is the most natural way to combat or prevent a disease, by using your body's own natural defenses rather than small molecule drugs if there are any available...
Next we should have a discussion about how dinosaurs are not real and just chiseled from rock by paleontologists in the name of science...
When the writer of that VaxTruth article said he just recently found out formaldehyde was used in embalming I was like... Dayum, I've known that since I was a kid.
"Naturally occurring sources of formaldehyde are found in plants, fruits, vegetables, animals (including humans) and seafood (Mason et al. 2004 and Inchem 1989).
Formaldehyde is a normal, essential human metabolite with a biological half-life of about 1.5 minutes (Clary and Sullivan 2001).
Human normal blood concentrations of formaldehyde are 2.74 +/- 0.14 mg/L (Franks 2005). The average adult male (86 kg) in the U.S. has a blood volume of 5.8 litres; the average adult female (74 kg) has a blood volume of 5.0 litres and an average 2 month old infant (5 kg), 0.43 litres. So this translates to 15.1-16.7 mg of normal formaldehyde range in an adult male, 13.0-14.4 mg in an adult female and 1.1-1.2 mg in a 2 month-old infant which works out to be 0.22-0.24 mg/kg (CHOP 2008 and Franks 2005).
If all vaccines are given as per the CDC recommendation and separately, the most a 2 month old infant would receive is 0.1204 mg of formaldehyde or 120.4 mcg. Going back to what normal formaldehyde levels for a 5kg, 2-month old infant are 1.1-1.2 mg or 0.22-0.24mg/kg so the total formaldehyde exposure from vaccines would raise that to 1.22-1.32 mg. Put another way, the amount contained within a vaccine is more than 50 times less than what is in a pear."
From the FDA website:
"Formaldehyde is also produced naturally in the human body as a part of normal functions of the body to produce energy and build the basic materials needed for important life processes. This includes making amino acids, which are the building blocks of proteins that the body needs.
Studies have shown that for a newborn of average weight of 6 - 8 pounds, the amount of formaldehyde in their body is 50-70 times higher than the upper amount that they could receive from a single dose of a vaccine or from vaccines administered over time."
From Science Based Medicine website:
"In trace amounts, formaldehyde is not dangerous. Also, it doesn’t last long in aqueous solution, such as vaccines. It breaks down to formic acid and carbon monoxide. Moreover, exposure to far more formaldehyde than any vaccine contains is ubiquitous in modern life. It’s in auto exhaust, and various substances found in virtually every household emit it:"
Thanks guys, I appreciate the references. : ) I am glad that we are all able to research anything at the touch of a button and make a choice based on our findings. I don't judge you guys on your choices. And hopefully you don't judge me cause you truly don't know me. Only David Willams does.
Kelly Slater the best athlete in the world is Anti-Vaccines... World Traveler. Hands down travels more than any other athlete in the world. Wonder why he is so healthy. Hmmmm.
Kelly Slater the best athlete in the world is Anti-Vaccines... World Traveler. Hands down travels more than any other athlete in the world. Wonder why he is so healthy. Hmmmm.
At David Williams, he probably was... I was vaccinated too and I was always sick. I was in line for the flu shot every time and still got the flu. I pay attention and I question things... I don't play into the hype... if it didn't work, why would I continue to get the shot? I ate like **** and didn't take care of myself at all which I believe contributes to getting sick. I haven't gotten the flu shot in years and I have not been sick in years.
I still get and see comments with people saying it's my kid and my business. I was just reading an article that along with other things explains what one issue is here:
The recommended age for the first of two MMR vaccines -- for measles, mumps and rubella -- starts at 1 year old. While babies are born with protective antibodies from their mothers, that natural immunity fades within months, leaving a window where they're more vulnerable to infectious illnesses. Vaccination is not advised for some children with severely weakened immune systems, nor pregnant women. So they depend on the herd immunity that builds as entire populations are vaccinated.
And again, if you don't know or understand what herd immunity is, google it. It's been explained above in this thread. If you don't understand at least what herd immunity is and how it works, and you don't vaccinate your kids for whatever reasons, you definitely have failed in educating yourself about vaccinations and need to get to work do more research.
I see where you are coming from on the non-GMO and Organic food. My wife and 3 boys pretty much only eat organic food. I am now on the same kick (for about 2 years) and I feel great. I am almost 34 and feel like I am back in my early 20s (health and energy wise). Getting the chemicals out helps and certainly just eating home cooked healthy meals has made the difference.
However, when it comes to vaccines we vaccinate. My wife does worry about the autism, issue, but the studies show that it is bogus. We do spread out the vaccinations a little more than typical as it makes her feel better, but the kids get vaccinated. In my opinion it is the right thing to do for our kids and the right thing to do for our community.
Also, just take a look at history and you can see how many people (often children) died from illnesses that we generally don't even have to think about because of vaccinations. My grandpa use to tell me about how terrible it was for friends and relatives who got polio. If this anti-vax movement keeps up our children and their children may have to live with a real concern/fear of those terrible illnesses.
Just and FYI the flu vaccine generally protects against the deadly or severe strains of the flu we are concerned about for that year, but won't stop you from getting every type including what people often refer to as the "stomach flu".
Thanks to those who chimed in and input their knowledge. I have never spent this much time on one topic... but it is all so interesting that I had to throw in my thought. I will continue to do my research on both sides not just one side. Pretty crazy that I am pretty much the only one that has these thoughts in the wakeboard community but when you go to the Surfing community there seems to be more of an anti-vaccine movement. Not sure why, but again it is interesting.
I do have a question... so would you be afraid to have your kid next to mine?
Thanks to those who chimed in and input their knowledge. I have never spent this much time on one topic... but it is all so interesting that I had to throw in my thought. I will continue to do my research on both sides not just one side. Pretty crazy that I am pretty much the only one that has these thoughts in the wakeboard community but when you go to the Surfing community there seems to be more of an anti-vaccine movement. Not sure why, but again it is interesting.
I do have a question... so would you be afraid to have your kid next to mine?
I don't know squat about either side of the argument. Both my kids have always been vaccinated, guess it's just what we did, never considered not doing it. Also never really worried about those that didn't.
To answer your question, nope...would have no fear with my kids hanging with kids that weren't vaccinated. Hell, for all I know, their friends haven't been.
Wouldn't worry me either with my kids hanging with unvaccinated kids. The point of bringing up this thread is that anti-vax folks are putting their kids at danger, and contribute to outbreaks of certain diseases like measles, whooping cough, etc , which is coming back thanks to folks who vaccinate against it.
Arun, you do realize that YOU are the one who should worry about their kids hanging with unvaccinated kids right? Not those who have done the right thing and protected their kids against these once eradicated illnesses.
Hopefully you also realize how silly you come off basing your ridiculous stance on something like formaldehyde, only to be shown how naturally occurring it is in the very things you feed your kids. And who cares what a bunch of surfers think about vaccines anyways? Are they the ones that are going to be taking care of your kids if they get senselessly ill?
At David Williams, he probably was... I was vaccinated too and I was always sick. I was in line for the flu shot every time and still got the flu. I pay attention and I question things... I don't play into the hype... if it didn't work, why would I continue to get the shot? I ate like **** and didn't take care of myself at all which I believe contributes to getting sick. I haven't gotten the flu shot in years and I have not been sick in years.
So Kelly Slater probably got vaccinated and travels all over the world and is one of the healthiest people you know of. Also, you got vaccinated and now you feel you are incredibly healthy (since you started eating right). You're making a terrific case for eating healthy. However, these statements also seem to make the case that vaccines don't inhibit, and may increase, your chance for a healthy life. I don't understand how the results we see in Kelly Slater and you prove or even suggest that vaccines are detrimental.
How many people here have seen Food, Inc? Did you have any questions about the meat that you eat? I can't watch something like that and say that it is gross and then continue to do it anyways. Same thing with vaccines... Can't expect different results by doing the same thing. I am not afraid to challenge things and dig deeper. I don't believe in "That is just the way it is". Bull****... I grew up in a family in which we were taught that its ok to question things and dig deeper. My father has changed more lives than anyone I have ever met and he influenced the great people of this world such as Mother Teresa and Salvador Dali and was close friends with them. Why? Because he had that mentality of not just accepting what everyone else believed when he knew there was another way and I am not ashamed that I have the same mentality. I love the life I live and feel super fortunate and blessed. Sorry that you guys are hating on my choices.
Don't worry I would still invite you guys to come ride with me... as long as you don't wear your boardshorts over your wetsuit.
I do question things and dig deeper. I tend to read SCIENTIFIC PAPERS that have been SCIENTIFICALLY & PEER REVIEWED and PUBLISHED IN REPUTABLE JOURNALS to gather information on things. I WILL NOT watch a youtube video to sway my opinion, NOR will I watch Dr. Oz or some other bull****. It's not hating on your choices, it's just letting you know that your choices were made without rational thought or scientific backing. You sound like a netflix documentary hero and 9/11 truther.
Just wanted to throw this fact out there:
Vaccines DO NOT contain mercury. They contain, Thiomersal, as a preservative, which is metabolized to ethyl mercury. Ethyl mercury is easily metabolized by the body, with a half life in the blood of 18 days and clears from the brain within 14 days.
Dimethylmercury and methylmercury are the type that are commonly related to mercury toxicity and poisoning.
Two different things completely. But then again, those using this as an argument against vaccines aren't really the ones to know or look into any actual science.
My problem is the AMOUNT of vaccines and the schedule they have set up for it.
Most kids by the time they're school age will have somewhere in the neighborhood of 150-200 vaccines (most of, or at LEAST a large peortion of them administered while they're infants)
And there's thousands of children in places like India who have been injured because of vaccines.
If you have a pushy physician that demands you vaccinate your kids, there's a downloadable sheet that will help hold them accountable should something happen.
It's a warranty of vaccine safety waiver that you can have the physician sign to help assure you against any problems. If the physician has a problem with signing it, you MAY want to consider going elsewhere.
Here's what it looks like, it comes in a pdf file:
Physician's Warranty of Vaccine Safety
I (Physician's name, degree)_________________________, _____ am a physician licensed to
practice medicine in the State/Province of ________________, in the country of
_________________. My State/Province license number is _______________ , and (if the USA)
my DEA number is _______________. My medical specialty is ________________________
I have a thorough understanding of the risks and benefits of all the medications that I prescribe for
or administer to my patients. In the case of (Patient's name) ___________________________ , age
_________ , whom I have examined, I find that certain risk factors exist that justify the
recommended vaccinations. The following is a list of said risk factors and the vaccinations that will
protect against them:
Risk Factor ____________________________________________
Vaccination ___________________________________________
Risk Factor ____________________________________________
Vaccination ___________________________________________
Risk Factor ____________________________________________
Vaccination ___________________________________________
Risk Factor ____________________________________________
Vaccination ___________________________________________
Risk Factor ____________________________________________
Vaccination ___________________________________________
Risk Factor ____________________________________________
Vaccination ___________________________________________
I am aware that vaccines typically contain many of the following fillers:
* aluminum hydroxide
* aluminum phosphate
* ammonium sulfate
* amphotericin B
* animal tissues: pig blood, horse blood, rabbit brain,
* dog kidney, monkey kidney,
* chick embryo, chicken egg, duck egg
* calf (bovine) serum
* betapropiolactone
* fetal bovine serum
* formaldehyde
* formalin
* gelatin
* glycerol
* human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)
* hydrolized gelatin
* mercury thimerosol (thimerosal, Merthiolate(r))
* monosodium glutamate (MSG)
* neomycin
* neomycin sulfate
* phenol red indicator
* phenoxyethanol (antifreeze)
* potassium diphosphate
* potassium monophosphate
* polymyxin B
* polysorbate 20
* polysorbate 80
* porcine (pig) pancreatic hydrolysate of casein
* residual MRC5 proteins
* sorbitol
* tri(n)butylphosphate,
* VERO cells, a continuous line of monkey kidney cells, and
* washed sheep red blood
and, hereby, warrant that these ingredients are safe for injection into the body of my patient. I have
researched reports to the contrary, such as reports that mercury thimerosol causes severe
neurological and immunological damage, and find that they are not credible.
I am aware that some vaccines have been found to have been contaminated with Simian Virus 40
(SV 40) and that SV 40 is causally linked by some researchers to non-Hodgkin's lymphoma and
mesotheliomas in humans as well as in experimental animals. I hereby warrant that the vaccines I
employ in my practice do not contain SV 40 or any other live viruses. (Alternately, I hereby warrant
that said SV-40 virus or other viruses pose no substantive risk to my patient.)
I hereby warrant that the vaccines I am recommending for the care of (Patient's name)
_______________ _______________________ do not contain any tissue from aborted human
babies (also known as "fetuses").
In order to protect my patient's well being, I have taken the following steps to guarantee that the
vaccines I will use will contain no damaging contaminants.
STEPS TAKEN: __________________________________________________ ____
__________________________________________________ __________________
__________________________________________________ __________________
__________________________________________________ __________________
I have personally investigated the reports made to the VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting
System) and state that it is my professional opinion that the vaccines I am recommending are safe
for administration to a child under the age of 5 years.
The bases for my opinion are itemized on Exhibit A, attached hereto, -- "Physician's Bases for
Professional Opinion of Vaccine Safety." (Please itemize each recommended vaccine separately
along with the bases for arriving at the conclusion that the vaccine is safe for administration to a
child under the age of 5 years.)
The professional journal articles I have relied upon in the issuance of this Physician's Warranty of
Vaccine Safety are itemized on Exhibit B , attached hereto, -- "Scientific Articles in Support of
Physician's Warranty of Vaccine Safety."
The professional journal articles that I have read which contain opinions adverse to my opinion are
itemized on Exhibit C , attached hereto, -- "Scientific Articles Contrary to Physician's Opinion of
Vaccine Safety"
The reasons for my determining that the articles in Exhibit C were invalid are delineated in
Attachment D , attached hereto, -- "Physician's Reasons for Determining the Invalidity of Adverse
Scientific Opinions."
Hepatitis B
I understand that 60 percent of patients who are vaccinated for Hepatitis B will lose detectable
antibodies to Hepatitis B within 12 years. I understand that in 1996 only 54 cases of Hepatitis B
were reported to the CDC in the 0-1 year age group. I understand that in the VAERS, there were
1,080 total reports of adverse reactions from Hepatitis B vaccine in 1996 in the 0-1 year age group,
with 47 deaths reported.
I understand that 50 percent of patients who contract Hepatitis B develop no symptoms after
exposure. I understand that 30 percent will develop only flu-like symptoms and will have lifetime
immunity. I understand that 20 percent will develop the symptoms of the disease, but that 95
percent will fully recover and have lifetime immunity.
I understand that 5 percent of the patients who are exposed to Hepatitis B will become chronic
carriers of the disease. I understand that 75 percent of the chronic carriers will live with an
asymptomatic infection and that only 25 percent of the chronic carriers will develop chronic liver
disease or liver cancer, 10-30 years after the acute infection. The following scientific studies have
been performed to demonstrate the safety of the Hepatitis B vaccine in children under the age of 5
years.
__________________________________________________ _____________________
__________________________________________________ _____________________
__________________________________________________ _____________________
In addition to the recommended vaccinations as protections against the above cited risk factors, I
have recommended other non-vaccine measures to protect the health of my patient and have
enumerated said non-vaccine measures on Exhibit D , attached hereto, "Non-vaccine Measures to
Protect Against Risk Factors" I am issuing this Physician's Warranty of Vaccine Safety in my
professional capacity as the attending physician to (Patient's name) _________________________.
Regardless of the legal entity under which I normally practice medicine, I am issuing this statement
in both my business and individual capacities and hereby waive any statutory, Common Law,
Constitutional, UCC, international treaty, and any other legal immunities from liability lawsuits in
the instant case. I issue this document of my own free will after consultation with competent legal
counsel whose name is _________________________, an attorney admitted to the Bar in the
State/Province of __________________.
__________________________________ (Name of Attending Physician)
__________________________________ L.S. (Signature of Attending Physician)
Signed on this _______ day of ______________ A.D. ________
Witness: _______________________________ Date: _____________________
Notary Public: ___________________________Date: ______________________
It may not be THAT many but it's quite a few (I checked the list a few months ago, but not very recently) But from what I've seen was quite a few vaccinations ranging from newborn to infant to the time they start school at age 5 according to the schedule they have. It's pretty disconcerting just how many they have for kids and the timeframes they have between them.
At any rate, if you hit your child's Peds Doc with that Physician's Warranty of Vaccine Safety and they get squirmy because they don't want to sign it, then that just MIGHT say something about their integrity as a Physician. Just sayin'
Bottom line....you want to do what's best for your kid and their health, even when it comes to vaccinations.
Btw John, I'm IN the Healthcare profession...have been for the last 18 years and I've seen PLENTY of this kind of thing with adult patients getting injuries from vaccines, let alone kids. Just so ya know. I myself haven't received a flu vacc for the last 5 yrs (and haven't had the flu or flu like symptoms since) because the risk of having the RIGHT kind of vaccine (that may or may NOT cover the strains that are out there)is a crap shoot (which some of the strains they're trying to cover are ACTIVE from 15-26 days so you can STILL catch those strains even IF you get vaccinated), even with the current vaccines on the market called Trivalent which INCLUDES the H1N1 vaccine (in case you didn't know about that so you REALLY want to roll the dice? Be my guest, regardless of what the CDC and the pharm corps say.
Last edited by quik876; 03-09-2015 at 12:53 PM.
Reason: had more info
Yes Brian, please explain to us how a healthcare professional who is required to be vaccinated is choosing not to be vaccinated and thereby endangering patients in a grossly negligent manor?
Brian, since you are in the healthcare industry, does your company not require you to get a flu shot every year or how are you able to bypass it?
as it stands now, It's based on facility to facility or whether or not you have direct contact with patients. It's not a mandatory national thing (like they'd like people to believe, at least not right now. I expect to start seeing/hearing about some legislation that will come into play soon to "make" it mandatory through some bs by the CDC to which groups like AAMI, AORN, etc will try to enact it to "comply".) But SOME facilities make it mandatory through their own facility's bylaws of "infection control". You can also do it by deferring on religious grounds.
when they hear something like that because you are going against a lot of research that is out there.
And hopefully you don't judge me cause you truly don't know me. Only David Willams does.
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