Nautique 230 vs Epic 23v
I know this is thread could get off track fast... Let me begin by saying, I am in the market for a new boat and it's no secret to any of my friends that I am a Nautique guy. I was having a conversation with a buddy about getting into a newer (2012+) 230 and he just could not get passed what kind of money I was looking at spending. He loves Epics and is planning on buying a 23v this winter. I admit I don't know much about Epics, so I am reaching out to WW for some clarification.
Here are some statements that were made in our exchange.. Him: I bet that 23v will produce a bigger surf wave than the 230 and it is a lighter boat and half the money. Me: To 95% of the tow boat population the 230 and 23v are not even in the same league. Him: That's bc everyone is up Nautiques a** because they are part of the big 3. The technology Epic has put into their hull surpasses any other boat builder. Nautique is still roto-molding and hand laying fiberglass. Me: How many industry awards has Epic ever won? This year Nautique won.. 1. Manufacture of the year (2nd year in a row) 2. Buzz brand of the year (won the last 2 out of 3 years) 3. Boat of the year 4. Innovation of the year 5. Nautique rider Mike Dowdy won trick of the year I'm not trying to dog on either of the brands, I just would want some real world feedback from 230 and 23v owners. pics, statistics, whatever.. sorry for the long post. |
Once you have driven both you will make your own decision. This thread is worthless.
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Agreed. It was hard to even post this, knowing I would be ripped for it. I just want some input on the validity of these statements.
FWIW I'm not looking at buying an Epic. |
Here we go. Epic sucks! But why are you even considering a Nautique when Mastercraft Exists? But if it were me I would go with a VLX, but I'm a Malibu guy. All the way. Screw Epic. Also, MB makes a great boat, but Axis puts out the best wakeboard wake for the money hands down, NO COMPARISON. Also, Tige, Supra, and Supreme are things. Nothing compares to a G23 though. X Star. Moomba. Wakesetter. blah blah
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Find most expensive boat, take 15yr note, lose back to bank in 3yrs.
Repeat. |
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http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=799734 |
Oh I remember that thread!!!! It was that one guy trying to be 2 different people!!! Arguing with himself.......
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If you are comparing fit and finish I would suggest you look at boats that have been used. That will show you how good each one works after a few years off the show-room floor. The newer Nautiques have smoother lines in the storage areas, if that matters. The surf wave on the port side is less steep on the 230 than the 23V. The Epic starboard wave is spectacular. No extra ballast is required for anything on the Epic. The wake-board wake is about the same, depending on how big you want it. I would take the transom audio over the cage speakers any day of the week. The Epic cuts through waves better than most boats and has more freeboard. Can you suffer spray? Yes, but compared to a loaded (pick the brand), it does quite well. You have a better chance of taking a roller over the bow with the Nautique. Some have complained about the seating/floor being to high with the Epic. Yes, you sit about 2-3 inches higher than in some other boats. However, all the storage space can still be used, you don't fall over bags on the floor or loose space with bags on the seats or in the rear hatches. The steering is somewhat easier on the Nautique due to shaft position on the rudder. They both share poor steering going in reverse and in beam winds in reverse and very slow forward speeds. I feel the Epic tracks better at surf and wake-board speed. With the Nautique, the clique crowd will want to be seen with you! With the Epic, you either love the stub nose, it grows on you (anchor box), or you loath it. So far most people want to get in my Epic to compare how it rides. Most leave with a smile (sometimes hidden) on their face! Now for the money comment, all 2 cents of it. Go try a number of boats, surf and wake-board them. Load all your gear in and on them. You might be surprised what you finally decide to buy. |
1. This thread took off exactly how I thought it would.
2. Rullery- I laughed. Well done. Iceberg- Thank you. I have been in a few 230s, but never had the chance to get in and explore an Epic. We set up a demo, and I am looking forward to it. It seems that people who have been in and around these boats have a lot of good things to say about them, and I am excited to see what what it will do. Quote:
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Post some pics of your Epic and the wake/wave. Is it a 21 or 23v? |
No pics but video of the wake and wave behind my epic 21v
wake: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us3aR1v9Mc0 (ballast 3/4 full 22mph @ 70ft) wave: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDQE6jEHfRk ( usual ballast setup is starboard side full with an extra 750 lbs bag in rear storage, port 1/3, front full 11.5 mph) |
That wake seems super narrow to me. I've ridden behind one. Pretty hard to keep clean too. Just my experience.
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i strongly considered an new 2011 epic 23v before eventually buying my 2008 230. i only rode behind a newer 2010 23v one time, but had been in several 230's. i really liked the 23v....price, storage, build, smart tow, etc., but chose the 230 based on four key opinions....
1) nautiques are very popular in the indiana market, whereas there was only one epic within 150 miles (at the time). i thought resale would just be easier with the nautique. 2) though i'd heard several great things about epic customer service, there simply wasn't anyone in the area familiar with epic boats. i had owned a mastercraft x10 prior and appreciated the local dealer support. 3) epic was moving manufacturing to LA and i was worried about possible "new model quality" problems 4) the wake on the 230 at times can be finicky, but it was very tough to keep the wake clean on the 23v. may have been experience of the owner since it was his first summer with the epic, but one side was always washed out. again, likely solved with experience, but i went with the known over unknown. all opinions, not bashing epic boats in any way. |
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----------- These are a 23V. Pretty similar results. Starboard surf wave. No extra ballast and 3 in the boat. Not the greatest picture but it shows the wave nicely. http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3720/9...d56fd98a41.jpg http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8034/7...2a0b394339.jpg Port side. I don't have any surf pic port since we don't use it much. However, here is a curl shot. It is fairly steep but not dialed in at the time of the photo. If you add people or ballast, the wave gets longer and more mellow. Most of the time we only have 2 or 3 adults and one or 2 kids on board. http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7222/7...484d6cb925.jpg Wakeboard at 22 mph about 1900 lbs ballast (50% 50% and 40%) in windy conditions.. http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8299/7...031d29c7e2.jpg Here is the old man (me at 55) going W-W with no ballast at 65' at 21.3. The telephoto makes the wake seem very narrow. I wish it was! As you can see, we needed a body or 2 on the port side. http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5449/9...949288331f.jpg |
And to somewhat answer/destroy a myth about the speakers being washed over - they don't ... At least not from the boat's wake. The video below shows it during surfing - it's the same/less with boarding
https://vimeo.com/74330186 However they do get washed over if a mo.ron drives by you too close creating a wake while you sit idle - the last time it was the sheriff himself ... |
Did the camera not get wet in that video, or am I missing something? Maybe not "washed over", but splashed...?
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I would get a Tige instead. Best of both worlds.
I been on a Epic, and i can say that the wake is superb, but wakesurf is not as good as other boats. |
Yep boat is almost sinking ... Darn I really worry about those speakers
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speakers getting wet are not a problem. I've had my wet sounds back there getting wet for 4 seasons and they are still rockin. They seem to handle the water with ease. The transom audio is such a killer design. Clutter free tower and nobody's ears in the boat get blasted by the tower speakers. The sound really travels well over the top of the water too. Always gets comments at the cove as well ;)
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Some good looking waves for sure. Nick, I know you did a gate install on yours, mind sharing some pics or info on the boat in general?
Wakeboard wake looks great, interesting to hear they are tough to keep clean. I know the 230 can be tricky as well. Just gotta ride/drive the 23v now. Guaranteed some 5 star wally can swamp that rear end. Has anyone heard of people having to replace transom speakers from this? I have not. Where are the 230 pics? |
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