To slow down or not to slow down - that is the question
 

I'd really love to learn a few (actually, I'd be happy with one) new tricks this year. I've got a (small) handfull of inverts and a wrapped 3. I'm 40, and although I hate to admit it, falls just hurt more than they used to, and I've found that I'm more and more reluctant to try new stuff while riding my usual setup (75 foot line, 3000 pounds in a 99 star). My plan is to shorten the line, so I can drop the speed a bit and keep a clean wake. So . . . how short should I go? Maybe 60 feet? And should I get rid of some ballast as well? And does the shorten the rope/reduce the speed method noticeably reduce the impact of falls? I'm not looking to do anything crazy, but I'd be the happiest guy on the water if I landed a non-wrapped 3, or a switch heelside or toeside backroll, or even a backside 180, which has eluded me for years.

Yes, yes you should.

I ride short and slow all the time (21.8@ 65-75ft depending on the boat) or 19/20 at 55-60 when I am learning new tricks. It's a great way to help get a better feel for things.

yep. next time you go out, see how slow you can go and get a clean wake. your star won't get super clean at slower speeds, but if you're doing inside out stuff it won't matter a whole lot. makes those stingers easier thats for sure

During the long line craze (in my late 30s) I lost a lot of tricks, progression stopped, and I was scarred of the hard falls and how beat up I would feel. I went to Schwenne's camp (West Coast Camps) and learned a better way. I also learned that few riders are still riding 75-80 feet, but most importantly, how to learn new tricks.

After camp, for the next two seasons, I went back to riding 65 feet at 21.6 and learned a bunch of tricks, and got stuff back. After two seasons of this I bumped up to 70 feet and 22.2. The falls don't hurt (maybe one or two a year are rough), the wake is bigger, the water is softer, and I can run less weight so I save a little gas. But most importantly I'm not scared to huck new stuff.

When I want to try something new I slow the boat down to 18mph, weight one side of the boat, and start throwing the trick one wake until I can land on the board, then return to 65 feet, then do it at 70. I learned toe back 1s, grabbed toe front 3s. indy backside 1s, scarecrows, and front rolls all on this method in two summers. At 42 my riding is better than it's ever been. I also had to stop landing in the flats. It's rare now.

Thanks guys! I'm going to implement the slow down/shorten approach this weekend. After reading your comments I'm more excited to ride/try new stuff than I have been in years. If I land anything new in the coming months I'll report back here!

I feel ya guys, I been riding at 75 at 23mph with about 4000 in weight and every season I say OK I want new tricks, but scared at the speed ect. So I going to drop some weight and slow down and see what I can get, as others have mentioned I've also lost tricks and want them back. Lets keep this thread alive and report how we are all doing, 3 cheers for us older guys still wake riding and not giving it up to surf as so many have, I have one friend left that rides all others surf, some days it's hard to get stoked with just the wife and kids, they don't push the riding like fellow wake rides.. ..

I had my revelation when I blew my knee out July 2013. Riding 23.2 mph, at 80 feet, behind a friends x25 with 3k in ballast (the boat has bad juju on it).

I was functional ACL deficient so the surgeon wouldn't operate initially, but I couldn't wakeboard. Conservative recovery timelines and hard rehab, along with winter times, had me 1 year and 9 months off a wakeboard. It was awful. I still don't have everything back, I've lost so much muscle memory and that's hard to get stuff back consistently, especially with a relatively short riding season full of wallys.

By slowing down you can still get hurt, I concust myself relearning heel 3's last year at just 20mph (same MC, like I said, bad juju). However, the comfort level is completely different. At 21.8 I feel so much less afraid to attack tricks at full speed and length. Perhaps it's all mental. I ride the slowest in the crew and anyone new always questions it. But if you wanna free ride, and tend to do more spins and fun/stylish riding than technical riding it is really a no brainer.


Just make sure you upsize your boards according.

Totally agree with J-Rod. I have found one wake tricks at low speed to be a fear killer. Then when confident speed up (I do 65 to 70 at 21.5, 3K). At 18mph a numbskull or face plant still can hurt. At 17 (ridiculously slow) I can still get enough one wake air to try new tricks. I have landed in every horrible way imaginable (burying nose from 6 feet off water, burying front and back edges, head first landings) and not experienced pain. Not sure if totally getting rid of fear is good or bad, but I'm 60 and still trying new stuff.

I agree with you Turbojedi, and I'm in the same situation as you. Down to only a few guys left in our riding crew who still actually wakeboard and everyone else opts to surf cause it's just plain easier.

We had a wake contest here yesterday and even with months of promotion and lead up time to prepare only about 10 people showed up. It was sad the see how badly wakeboarding is dying. They had to turn the contest into a demo because there wasn't enough people, so everyone had to just ride brand new G23s for the day (ya it could have been worse lol).

Gone are the days of seeing people pushing it behind the boat in a wakeboard. Now when you look out onto he lake all you see if surf boats doing power turns to pick up fallen riders.

I will say however last week, for the first time eve,r we saw a person actually wakeboard behind a G23 on our lake. We have about 15 different new G's on our lake and have literally never seen one pull a Wakeboarder or even have a wakeboard in he racks.

Yea you can still get hurt, but also I mean trying a tantrum to blind feels better at 65 feet and 20ish than 22.8 at 75.. Lol. I work on my spins at 18 one wake style, it helps me, I had toe 5 and switch front 5 but lost on the long line.. OK now back to the no one pushing wakeboarding, it's sad to see all the boats and no wake board, I just get no stoke from surfing, not really a challenge, but that's me. Its is a fading sport it seems, I push my friends to ride and they will once or twice a year, but normally it's hey let's surf. When I get to the point where I don't wake board we may sell the boat, my wife feels the same, surfing is OK but just no stoke in it for us...

ditto on the super slow speed 1 wake method to learn new stuff! It helps so much mentally knowing you wont get smoked if you mess up. Having said that its not like it doesnt hurt, its just way, way safer.

Can you explain what your reasoning behind this?

to counteract the added drag of slowing down several MPH

That's interesting. Never trough about doing that. Probably because going to a bigger board messes with my timing. The Reverb has less drag than most boards. It hasn't been an issue for me. Since slowing the boat down, I have tried a few boards that just didn't work for me though. Many of the pros seem to like slow boards. Or maybe they just test and design the boards at their usual fast speeds and just don't notice the friction.

J-Rod - I have been thinking about trying this technique to get back some of my lost inverts. Schwenne and BG have been telling me this for the last few years. I really feel like when I go shorter and slower, I don't have enough time to set things up. How do you overcome that feeling?

I normally ride 80' @ 24.5, but I have a ton of weight in the boat and a ton of weight on my board :)

It took some getting used to. The trick is getting the same distance wake to wake that you normally have at 80. If you drop some weight from the boat you should be able to find the formula. I usually do one set at 70 and one at 65 to try different stuff.

I guess I should have been more clear. I totally understand that concept. The faster you go the higher you sit on the water. But how big of a difference does it ACTUALLY make. Are we talking about going from a 140 to a 142, and do riders really feel a big enough difference to justify a board change?

What lines are you guys using for less than 65''? That is the shortest mine gets (Ronix line). Are you tying it off? I don't want to mess up sheathing, but I'd like to test out a 55-60 slowed down a bit. I normally ride 75' at 24mph.

google
"reducing rope length without knots" - nice technique depending on how fragile your line coating is

I am going out Thursday and will try 70' which is 10-15' shorter than I normally ride so we will see what happens. This Murray 150 is already pretty quick so I think I wont end up with too much drag. I really want back my HS5, Crow more and Roll-Revert, but at 25 Mph when I miss, those suckers hurt.

I am loving doing this at the moment I ride a 09 Xstar and starting off about 55 feet around 19 mph is really comfortable and so easy to clear the wake so I can try tricks and still go wake to wake to get that feeling. After I've landed a few I go out another 5 feet and up 1MPH and repeat this until I'm at 70 feet going around 22MPH. I don't feel the need to go any longer or faster than that at the moment.
It is a bit of a hassle keep changing the line and speed as I'll often change mid set but it has made things seem so much easier for me.
I've managed a BS 180 using this method which I was getting really stuck on just trying to go for it at full speed on the longer line. I'm currently learning a 3 using this method and I'm much happier than when I was throwing these full speed as well, perforated eardrum on that one.

Fold the section in half where you want to tie it off. wrap it once around the pylon over the top of the line, and then again under the bottom of the line. As it comes around the the second wrap, twist the loop you now have in your hand and hook it to the tower.

That probably doesn't help does it? It's hard to put into words.

I'm going to try this tomorrow not because I lost stuff but mainly I have never really progressed past basic 180's. I've tried I bet 150 backrolls and have never once felt like I was even close to riding away. I over the years I have developed a metal block on trying new stuff. In the past I would ride then try a few back rolls at the end of a set, then I would get broke off and be done. It time to learn back Ones and some 3's maybe try some other invert.


I used to just charge stuff and not care but ever since I broke C7 and T3 on a dirt bike. I like to feel things out alittle better now.

The guy who's boat I was riding when I broke my foot last month recently showed me this.

I found this video on how to tie it shorter. One of my buddies ties his wife's line up shorter this way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-nef3BGSnQ

If you have 2 old ropes around you can take one and shorten it to 50ft main line. Then take the extensions off another rope and add to the end of the new shorter rope. You will end up with a rope as short as 50ft and as long normal.

Thanks all! I'll try out these tie techniques. Time to get back the hs backroll!

Also the learnwake.com website gives a great hs backroll painless (relatively) slow speed progression vid

I went out and tried 65' and really struggled. I ride 80-85' at 26.5 for the last decade or so. Just could not figure out the timing/speed. I am a big dude on a 150 so I think that is contributing there the weirdness. I went to 70' and it was just as frustrating. Just could not figure it out. Ended up at 75' and 24.5 and felt a little better so I will need to practice more at that spot.

I wonder for al the Long Liners - how you can shorten up and get used to the shorter set up time. It feels so awkward. I like the idea of slower and shorter to get some tricks back.

I'm assuming that everyone would recommend going down in line slowly.....5ft at a time while you get used to it.

I just forced myself to ride at 65. I saw a few great riders do it, so I knew that I could. Plus, thats where most of us old guys learned. It just takes some getting used to.

Buff I can totally understand the issue with you being a big dude. The speed that you have to go to make 65 work could be a challenge. You're used to a lot less drag. 24.5 is still fast AF.

Do you guys run less weight at slower speeds? I probably went to big, but I dropped from 75' 24mph to 55' 20mph. I was having trouble with keeping the wake clean.

to do super slow 17 to 18mph short line or single wake new tricks I drop to about 750 pounds of ballast

Idk what your boat is but that might be too slow. Try 21.5-22 at 65'-70' if you're just going out to take a set

Yea it makes a huge difference.

I always buy the biggest board available for the board I want. I won't ride anything less than a 142.

I am also 6'1" and 190 lbs so even a 142 is a bit small for me.

I notice a difference when i switch to my 142/143 or take my brothers 143. It's not just length, you gain size everywhere including the width and rocker size so it makes a big difference even if the length is just a bit different. I wish that I could have grabbed humanoids in a 145 range but they don't sell them. Maybe I'll hop back on a recoil 145 next season

I don't have to drop weight. I have a new Axis A22. It stays clean even at slow speeds.

I have rode twice now at 60 and 22.2 and love it. I have always struggled with a simple HS FS 180. Now I feel like I got them on lock. Going to work on HS BS 180 next trip, I already do them inside out all the the time. I agree it takes some getting used to it but there is something about just taking a good old lazy cut in to throw toe side and heel side 180. I feel like after today I'll have no problem going back to 65 at the same speed and still feel confident in my small amount of tricks.

This is from a guy that has rode for years at 70-75 at 23.5 and never really progressed. It's going to be a good summer.

And I didn't drop weight in my supra 24v this was with 3700# ish

Interesting. I am 6ft and last year I was 180lb when I got my District 143. It was much bigger than my last board so I felt GREAT on it, it felt like I was just popping out of the water and I would get alot less tired.

In the last year I have gained 20lb and I'm close to 200lb. I felt like it was alot more strenuous getting out of the water and I would get more tired while just riding. I thought I was just imagining it but maybe there was some truth to it.

143 for my weight should still be fine though at ~21mph right?

So I had a question for all you guys riding 60ft and under.

I'm currently riding 65ft at around 21mph. So I definitely subsribe to the (shorter/slower) = (better for the weekend warriors) school of thought. I feel like once I try any shorter than 65ft though, the line tension sensitivity starts to get way 'worse'. It's alot more sensitive to screw ups.

Anyone else find that with <65ft the line tension sensitivity becomes a problem?

A very high towpoint can help too, try a tower extension.

Yeah. I don't like 60. It seems like you completely lose that pause after you edge out to set up. 65 behind my boat is 21.5. That's as slow as I need to go for wake to wake.

You can easily learn a Toeside back 180 also on 1 wake. Weight one wide of the boat. 65 feet. One wake. Pop, yank the handle to your front hip, and pass.

I think I'm going to try those too. That's the natural direction I want to spin anyway.

Absolutely slow down. Drop about half the weight in the boat too. HSBS180s eluded me for a long time because of a bad back edge I caught several years ago. I was tired of being stuck and not getting better. Couple of summers ago slowed the boat, dropped weight by a third, and shortened rope to 55'. Learned switch HS w2w jumps, TS w2w, inside out HSBS180s, halfcabs, TSFS180s, just all the small stuff I had neglected. At 18mph, a short approach, and an easy wake to clear engrained those in muscle memory. Moved back to 60' and did the same. Then added weight and sped up to 20 more of the same. Then out to 65' which is where I normally ride. Then full ballast and 21.7. The falls didn't hurt much and I could ride for 45 minutes easily doing the same tricks over and over and over. Got in a rut last summer and first part of this summer. About to do the same to learn a backroll, TSBS180, TSFS3, HSFS3, and HSBS3 this summer. I got slobberknockered trying a TSFS3 at regular speed about a month ago for the first time. I always thought people were kidding saying they could see stars when they hit their head it's real folks lol. So yeah I feel you on the falls hurting worse than they used to so I'm slowing it back down and short lining it for a few weeks to get out of the rut. No shame here none at all. Sometimes you have to go backwards to go forwards.

Absolutely slow down. Drop about half the weight in the boat too. HSBS180s eluded me for a long time because of a bad back edge I caught several years ago. I was tired of being stuck and not getting better. Couple of summers ago slowed the boat, dropped weight by a third, and shortened rope to 55'. Learned switch HS w2w jumps, TS w2w, inside out HSBS180s, halfcabs, TSFS180s, just all the small stuff I had neglected. At 18mph, a short approach, and an easy wake to clear engrained those in muscle memory. Moved back to 60' and did the same. Then added weight and sped up to 20 more of the same. Then out to 65' which is where I normally ride. Then full ballast and 21.7. The falls didn't hurt much and I could ride for 45 minutes easily doing the same tricks over and over and over. Got in a rut last summer and first part of this summer. About to do the same to learn a backroll, TSBS180, TSFS3, HSFS3, and HSBS3 this summer. I got slobberknockered trying a TSFS3 at regular speed about a month ago for the first time. I always thought people were kidding saying they could see stars when they hit their head it's real folks lol. So yeah I feel you on the falls hurting worse than they used to so I'm slowing it back down and short lining it for a few weeks to get out of the rut. No shame here none at all. Sometimes you have to go backwards to go forwards.

Want to keep this going

I tried for the first time ever some one wake TS FS 360's last night at 19 mph just to see if I could even get the feeling of it. I was really surprised how easily I made it all the way around of the first try but I didn't have the handle. I came really close to having the handle on a few. Next time out I'm going to bump up the speed a little and really concentrate one keeping the handle right in the small of my back.

^^ my protip on those is to land them wrapped with weight over your toes. You don't have to pass it. Keep the handle close as you ride up the wake to make the spin easier and keep the handle closer to your body.

Thanks

I kinda was landing with it wrap and trying to pass it as soon as I landed. But that's when I was dropping it. I guess I need to really just try and ride it out with the handle in my right hand. (I ride regular)

The toe 3 landing can be tricky. I fully agree on landing without the pass. Trying to pass the handle on a toe 3 usually results in over rotating. Landing wrapped stops you at 360. I also found that doing it grabbed helps slow it down by breaking the trick into 180, 180. Instead of a constant 360 spin.

I had to start grabbing them once I learned toe 5, otherwise I would over rotate them every time, muscle memory takes over. Plus by landing wrapped or passing as you hit the wake you can grab the entire way through the trick

We slowed the boat down to 20 all weekend and shortened rope to 55 or 60'. Everyone in my crew learned something new this weekend or added a grab to an existing trick. It's worth it to progress. No shame going slower.