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buffalow 04-10-2020 5:07 AM

PPP/Emerg. Funds - My Experience
 
How are you all doing with this process? Thought I would give you my experience if it would help others.

I own an commercial HVAC business for over 30 years with almost (50) employees. Three weeks ago we have (71) live projects and we are now own to (4). In many cases the malls, cities, or State shut the projects down. In other situations the corporations like Gap, H&M, and Dick's shut down all retail, construction and future construction for now which shut the project down.We are down some work for Amazon and they have invoked some heavy duty restrictions which will cost us lots of additional money and time. We are down to (6) employees in the field and none in the office. We tried to keep then all working the last two weeks and we literally had people washing vans, pulling weeds, filing and cleaning but now they have zero to do. Most of my staff would rather not see me waste money while this is gong on so they have a job to return to.

So I filed for the $10K and PPPP. the $10K was with SBA and I filled online and heard nothing so far. I filed the PPP with my bank. Luckily we are a big fish in a small/mid size bank, so we were on their top 10 clients to help out. We filed within minutes of SBA opening up. So I got the call yesterday to discuss things and its not quite the way the media makes it out. I am not saying its bad, but people should know. My bank was clear the they want to be transparent and make sure people understand the severity of the loan and the seriousness of the terms.

So in my case my loan will be $750K. The clock started today not a few weeks ago. So they will look at my payroll the next 10 weeks. Based on that number, it potentially will be forgiven. Then an additional 25% can be used for rents/utilities and such which in theory will be forgiven as well. the issue at hand is the (46) employees that are sitting at home. I could rehire them all back, and pay them to sit in my break room and they get a 40 hour a week check and I get it forgiven. My intent is to hire ALL of them back as soon as my projects open up which we are hoping in 3-4 weeks. Once we open back up, our payroll will go back to normal and actually be higher as we are likely to go on OT and DT to catch jobs back up and we will use up a good chunk of that borrowed money. Of course if this goes till June or July, all bets are off.

So the issue for many businesses is, whatever money that is not forgiven, the borrower owes on an 18 month note at 1% interest! On a $150K balance that is $9K per month! Well as long as your are a responsible business owner, that is VERY cheap money. if you are not or CAN NOT, then November 1st rolls around and that will be a significant of money owed each month. At this point, you will be able to renegotiate the loans terms based on the value left and possible convert it to a longer note, but not sure the average small business owner will understand that. I talk to dozens of bankers, lawyers, business owners, and corporation daily and nobody really knows whats going on and the rules are changing every day.

This is my update as of today and that is me workign on it every day for a few weeks.

shawndoggy 04-10-2020 11:44 AM

Do you have a cite for the "10 weeks" thing? If you look at the SBA's interim final rule, they say that the measuring period is 8 weeks not 10.

The actual amount of loan forgiveness will depend, in part, on the
total amount of payroll costs, payments of interest on mortgage obligations
incurred before February 15, 2020, rent payments on leases dated before February
15, 2020, and utility payments under service agreements dated before February
15, 2020, over the eight-week period following the date of the loan.

Rule is here: https://www.sba.gov/sites/default/fi...%20FINAL_0.pdf
quote above is from page 14

We are working through this right now too and trying to make sure we burn the money on the right stuff. Definitely a moving target!

buffalow 04-13-2020 5:23 AM

Shawn - I have seen different sources say 8 weeks or 10 weeks and the final is 8 weeks now., We are expected to have a check in 3 days from my bank.

The rules and processes are a moving target and I expect by the time we get to mid summer things will change further. If we go back to work May, then probably nto a big deal, btu fi this goes into middle of summer, I expect them to have to quadruple the amount given. As of today they are around 900,000 loans and shutting it down cause they are out fo the first round of money. Those people that have yet to file will have to wait.

I am sure teh documentation will be paramount on forgiveness!

As a side thought, a friend recommend creating a separate bank account with the money, then do payroll/rent/utilies for 2 months out fo their to make the account simpler.

shawndoggy 04-13-2020 6:35 AM

We are trying to do the same with a segregated account.

scotthons 04-15-2020 2:43 AM

We are a small fish in a big pond and have not been very successful. The last I heard from our bank (US Bank) is that the loan terms and conditions are being finalized and I will receive in email in a few minutes for esignatures...that was on Saturday. Now their loan portal is down and the phone # they provided is non existent. I am not very hopeful we will see anything before funds have run dry.

buffalow 04-16-2020 4:45 AM

We received funds yesterday and set them in a separate account. I see they have currently shut down teh program as of today. I am sure they need to finalize the almost 1 million loans that were approved.

Shawn - it is 8 weeks from when the loan paperwork is approved. 75% towards payroll will be forgiven and then an additional 25% towards operating expense.

shawndoggy 04-16-2020 5:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffalow (Post 1996760)
We received funds yesterday and set them in a separate account. I see they have currently shut down teh program as of today. I am sure they need to finalize the almost 1 million loans that were approved.

Shawn - it is 8 weeks from when the loan paperwork is approved. 75% towards payroll will be forgiven and then an additional 25% towards operating expense.


Glad to hear! Seems like those who got on the ball early with this are sure glad they did.

ord27 04-16-2020 5:16 PM

....2 trillion in 13 days. i am on the list. The money is mine, just waiting on bank details


Pelosi drug her feet. she added pork yo the bill, which extended thing a week or 2. I lost 5 people in the mean time. I need to replace them, in order to get the loan turned into a grant. I don't trust government. Wouldn't not have don this i've I had been given a choice

ord27 04-16-2020 5:19 PM

buffalow,
it's my understanding that it's not just the 75%, it's a headcount issue. so, however many empolyees that you listed....is how many need to receive the funds

buffalow 04-17-2020 3:12 AM

Ord27, that is not how I am reading the stipulation. In fact, I am checking with the lawyers again, but if your are a corporation I do not see anything that says upper management could not take it all up to $100K each, which would really defeat the purpose. I have spoke with dozens of business owners that have intentions to be back to work on May4 in some capacity and hopefully full capacity by end of May. The reality is that if we go back to work in 2-4 weeks I will go back to full staff and working OT/DT to catch up and use up all the PPP money.If this thing goes into July/August, it will be survival money. At 1%, it will be cheap money if I have to resort to that, but my payment would be over $20K/month which would suck.I have been told by the bankers, that whatever money is not forgiven could re-work the loan by the time November rolls around and could end up being a 3-10 year loan, but of course at normal interest rates. If businesses need to survive, this may be an option.

Currently I am at 26% of my staff, but hoping to ramp up to 70% by the end of the month and 100% by middle of May. if so, my staff can go back to 50-60 hour weeks and we can keep rolling like we were. We had our biggest Jan/Feb in 30 years and were set for an unprecedented year.

Pelosi is still dragging her feet on the PPP new funds. I personally believe she is doing it so so she can add more pork and delay things as long as she can towards election. I do not for a minute, think she is doing it to protect the american business owner. They know that Sleepy Joe is not a good alternative so all they can bank on right now is that the economy will remain tanked.

shawndoggy 04-17-2020 3:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffalow (Post 1996790)
Ord27, that is not how I am reading the stipulation. In fact, I am checking with the lawyers again, but if your are a corporation I do not see anything that says upper management could not take it all up to $100K each, which would really defeat the purpose.

That approach could totally screw you, I think. Forgiveness is measured against two standards, as I read it. There's an "average number of employees" standard in addition to the 75% on payroll costs standard.

Have your lawyers take a look at Section 1105(d)(2)(A) of the CARES Act:

(2) REDUCTION BASED ON REDUCTION IN NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES.—

(A) IN GENERAL.—The amount of loan forgiveness under this section shall be reduced by the percentage equal to the difference obtained by subtracting—

(i) the quotient obtained by dividing—

(I) the average number of full-time equivalent employees per month employed by the eligible recipient during the covered period; by

(II) (aa) the average number of full time equivalent employees per month employed by the eligible recipient during the period beginning on March 1, 2019 and ending on June 30, 2019; or

(bb) in the case of an eligible recipient that is seasonal employer, as determined by the Administrator, the average number of full-time equivalent employees per month employed by the eligible recipient during the period beginning on March 1, 2019 and ending on June 30, 2019; from

(ii) 1.

(B) CALCULATION OF AVERAGE NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES.—The average number of full-time equivalent employees shall be determined by calculating the average number of employees for each pay period falling within a month.

fly135 04-21-2020 3:52 AM

The govt paying companies to pay people to work while simultaneously ordering everyone to stay home from work. Seems like a good time to complain about who uses what bathroom.:D

shawndoggy 04-21-2020 1:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawndoggy (Post 1996791)
That approach could totally screw you, I think.

I'm wrong, Buffalow. I think your lawyers may be right about how to game the 75% spend. I was looking at the original draft of the CARES Act, not the Act as signed into law. The actual act does provide for the "rehire cure" you mention above.

buffalow 04-23-2020 6:50 AM

Yhea it is still SUPER vague and most banks and lawyers deal with facts which they have a limited amount of right now. With another $500B approved today, thing swill get very interesting...

wakeeater2003 04-28-2020 1:56 AM

Jason,

Do you have highly compensated employees? If so how are you separating those earnings over 100k annually? Everything is so vague at this point.

buffalow 04-28-2020 5:32 AM

Wake - Only two and they are barely at that normal salaries. The bank said not to worry about it since it was like $101-3K.I think if you are around $150-200K then they recommend a reduced salary to those people for the 8 weeks.

Also they have not really said how owners salaries are to be handled. So if you have a husband wife, that are President/CFO of a company as part of the main payroll, do they still get full pop? Does not clearly state from what I have seen. Whats to say they dont max their numbers out or add a child to the company and max that out.

fly135 05-07-2020 3:17 AM

A friend of mine got $60K for his business. He said he didn't need it but it was free money and he qualified so he applied. You could probably hire your entire family including the family pet (w/ a fake SS#).

shawndoggy 05-08-2020 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakeeater2003 (Post 1997037)
Jason,

Do you have highly compensated employees? If so how are you separating those earnings over 100k annually? Everything is so vague at this point.

Limit on forgiveness is $15,385 per employee during the 8 weeks after the loan funds. From what I have read, you can pay someone more during that time, but only the $15,385 per head is eligible for forgiveness.

https://home.treasury.gov/system/fil...s-of-Loans.pdf

wakeeater2003 05-14-2020 8:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawndoggy (Post 1997281)
Limit on forgiveness is $15,385 per employee during the 8 weeks after the loan funds. From what I have read, you can pay someone more during that time, but only the $15,385 per head is eligible for forgiveness.

https://home.treasury.gov/system/fil...s-of-Loans.pdf

Thanks I didnít see this but this is how I have been calculating it. We are bi weekly and I have been capping wages at 3,846 per pay period which would get me the amount above in the 8 week period.

buffalow 05-15-2020 4:13 AM

So the reality of our current situation is employees are choosing not to return because they can make a good living staying at home. I have almost (50) employees that I was loosing sleep over because they were home and I take great pride in keeping them fully employed year round. Now I have 5 (10%) of my work force that chooses not to return at this time. We have followed all the legal guidelines and can consider their lack of returning as them resigning, but I don't want to. They are good men that have worked hard for me for over a decade. They all make over 6 figures and full benefits, but choose to stay at home. So now I am going to be forced to replace them even though I consider these people family and they have been valuable employees. Just sucks as to how this all got laid out. I think if your job is offered to you, then you have 7 days to return or get zero unemployment. if this was normal times, that woudl be the case.

ord27 05-15-2020 5:51 PM

buffalow, you need to watch your own back. Pay 76% out in payroll. It doesn't havee to be the former members. Give yourself a healthy dose....w2. Add your family to the payroll. Those "loyal, long term employess"....screw that. If they believe inn then propaganda, agenda, that's their issue Pay who you antr, but dollar amounts per employee don't matter. Reward those that share your beliefs....screw all others. If you don't , you will be the one screwed.

grant_west 05-15-2020 7:50 PM

Check this Roach;
Got him self a 3 million dollar PPP loan. This is where your tax dollars went.
Spends 80+k on Bling, 40k on Child Payments rolls around with 10k in cash in his pocket. They snatched his bank account and got some of the money back but where is the rest? That’s a lot of money missing. I hope they make a example out of this fool. (But you know they https://www.breitbart.com/entertainm...child-support/

wakeeater2003 05-16-2020 2:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffalow (Post 1997519)
So the reality of our current situation is employees are choosing not to return because they can make a good living staying at home. I have almost (50) employees that I was loosing sleep over because they were home and I take great pride in keeping them fully employed year round. Now I have 5 (10%) of my work force that chooses not to return at this time. We have followed all the legal guidelines and can consider their lack of returning as them resigning, but I don't want to. They are good men that have worked hard for me for over a decade. They all make over 6 figures and full benefits, but choose to stay at home. So now I am going to be forced to replace them even though I consider these people family and they have been valuable employees. Just sucks as to how this all got laid out. I think if your job is offered to you, then you have 7 days to return or get zero unemployment. if this was normal times, that woudl be the case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffalow (Post 1997519)
So the reality of our current situation is employees are choosing not to return because they can make a good living staying at home. I have almost (50) employees that I was loosing sleep over because they were home and I take great pride in keeping them fully employed year round. Now I have 5 (10%) of my work force that chooses not to return at this time. We have followed all the legal guidelines and can consider their lack of returning as them resigning, but I don't want to. They are good men that have worked hard for me for over a decade. They all make over 6 figures and full benefits, but choose to stay at home. So now I am going to be forced to replace them even though I consider these people family and they have been valuable employees. Just sucks as to how this all got laid out. I think if your job is offered to you, then you have 7 days to return or get zero unemployment. if this was normal times, that woudl be the case.

This sucks. We have continued to express how important it is to our employees to keep working. We are making them whole with their wages because we are still operating at about 50% revenue. The fact is the employees that are refusing to come back to work are thinking short term. Once the gravy train stops unemployment will be above Great Depression levels. The market will have completely turned from an employees market to an employers market. The people that are working should be happy, at least in our company because they will have long term security.

I think that are refusing to go back are in for a rude awakening when they find no jobs to go back to.

wakeeater2003 05-16-2020 2:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ord27 (Post 1997551)
buffalow, you need to watch your own back. Pay 76% out in payroll. It doesn't havee to be the former members. Give yourself a healthy dose....w2. Add your family to the payroll. Those "loyal, long term employess"....screw that. If they believe inn then propaganda, agenda, that's their issue Pay who you antr, but dollar amounts per employee don't matter. Reward those that share your beliefs....screw all others. If you don't , you will be the one screwed.

This to some extent. Maybe a little extreme. But you have to look out for the best interest of your company. In general employees are always looking out for their best interest and the company needs to do the same.

buffalow 05-18-2020 10:27 AM

Yhea I hear you brother. Just sucks man. I take great pride in taking care of my people and the first time they can show allegiance they bounce. I am running ads liek crazy for technicians and getting nothing! My work is rolling in every day and I will be in deep chit next week without a few more guys.

wakeeater2003 05-19-2020 2:49 PM

You can thank our government for incentivizing people not to work. Sad that it is heading towards socialism.

I learned a long time ago to take care of our employees but at the end of the day they are going to
do what is best for them. We try to make the right choices to make the best working environment but people make their own choice and as an organization we must do the same.

shawndoggy 05-20-2020 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakeeater2003 (Post 1997669)
You can thank our government for incentivizing people not to work. Sad that it is heading towards socialism.

I learned a long time ago to take care of our employees but at the end of the day they are going to
do what is best for them. We try to make the right choices to make the best working environment but people make their own choice and as an organization we must do the same.

Totally NOT socialism when the government gives a business 10 weeks of payroll for nothing. :rolleyes:

buffalow 05-20-2020 3:47 AM

For nothing? really?

shawndoggy 05-20-2020 5:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffalow (Post 1997678)
For nothing? really?

Other than investing the time to figure out the forgiveness rules, what did you have to give to get the loan?

wakeeater2003 05-20-2020 5:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffalow (Post 1997678)
For nothing? really?

I totally agree. I don't believe in the program. Our company was doing fine but the government kept tightening their grip. First they tied one hand behind my back than the other, than they kicked a leg, at some point I had to scream uncle.

If they would have kept construction going with social distancing, I would have never filed for the program.

wakeeater2003 05-20-2020 6:43 AM

Clarification, above should not reference Buffalow quote if should reference Shawndoggy.

buffalow 05-20-2020 11:30 AM

Shawm, I signed a 24 month note for 1% for the money, with a personal guarantee, Its a loan -its not free. Assuming the rules get figured out, they in theory will for get the month after some proof which still had not been determined, and then I am on the hook for the difference. I am planning on nothing! I am figuring I have to pay it back.

buffalow 05-20-2020 11:32 AM

The reality is, its just a traditional secured loan with the hopes that things will be forgotten, but no set rules in place yet as to how that will work

shawndoggy 05-20-2020 2:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffalow (Post 1997703)
The reality is, its just a traditional secured loan with the hopes that things will be forgotten, but no set rules in place yet as to how that will work

Secured? Eeek. PPP was no guaranty unsecured loan. If you pledged collateral your bank gotcha.

Have you seen the SBA's forgiveness application that was released last Friday? Much more guidance if you start modeling your numbers.

shawndoggy 05-20-2020 2:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffalow (Post 1997702)
Shawm, I signed a 24 month note for 1% for the money, with a personal guarantee, Its a loan -its not free. Assuming the rules get figured out, they in theory will for get the month after some proof which still had not been determined, and then I am on the hook for the difference. I am planning on nothing! I am figuring I have to pay it back.

Did you get an EIDL loan too? I think you might be confusing PPP and EIDL. PPP specifically does not require a personal guarantee. Your EIDL would require a personal guarantee if you borrowed more than $200k or own more than 20% of the borrower.

buffalow 05-21-2020 4:06 AM

https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/co...s-mnuchin-says

ord27 05-21-2020 12:46 PM

lost 3 more employees this week to other industries . Gained 1 from another too. When the PPP funds run out, and I can't cushion the tipped employees weekly money, I predict that the wheels will continue to fall off. One of my restaurants has been, and is doing well. Very loyal group of customers. The others, probably won't survive the year.
My vote will go to whichever candidate will lean towards a smaller, less intrusive government. I don't even care if they are somewhat crazy.......unless their last name is Pelosi

buffalow 05-22-2020 8:13 AM

For sure

Here is something to ponder - If the employees are choosing to stay home and get that free money, who do they vote for in November? They may hate trump but are getting free money, which way will they choose. I find it pretty fascinating really.

lesstalkmoreride 05-22-2020 8:47 AM

Most people I talk to want to work. In fact, they want to stay safe/alive to be able to continue to work. Its just that nobody feels safe going back yet. The money is nice, but not the true impetus. None of them are really "getting ahead" in all of this. Work gives most pride and sense of meaning/purpose. Dying because of work is pretty much unheard/unacceptable outside of dangerous occupations.

buffalow 05-27-2020 3:01 AM

Less - I thought the same thing. I can tell you for my cupel of guys that are not wanting to return, while we have the legal ability to cancel their unemployment ((well report to EDD that is), it is a slippery slope for sure.

wakeeater2003 05-27-2020 3:28 AM

Jason are you going to work?

My deal is that I would never ask anyone to do anything that I won't do. I am at work ready to go, willing to do what ever is necessary. If employees don't want to comeback, I will find someone else who will.

We have accommodated a few with leave but we are not paying them and not letting them collect unemployment during that time.

buffalow 05-27-2020 6:21 AM

Wake - I have worked 15-18 hours a day since this went down. As I had to lay off staff I had to absorb all other duties. We had (and now have back) 7 office employers and all but one went on unemployment for about a month and I had to do all of their tasks as well as my normal job.

Typically I agree - I will find someone else, but finding trained service technicians is just about impossible. We are trying everything - Cl, inked, FB, IG, Monster, Zip, headhunter, etc...

shawndoggy 05-27-2020 6:55 AM

Have you guys started working through the SBA's forgiveness application?

wakeeater2003 05-28-2020 6:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffalow (Post 1997909)
Wake - I have worked 15-18 hours a day since this went down. As I had to lay off staff I had to absorb all other duties. We had (and now have back) 7 office employers and all but one went on unemployment for about a month and I had to do all of their tasks as well as my normal job.

Typically I agree - I will find someone else, but finding trained service technicians is just about impossible. We are trying everything - Cl, inked, FB, IG, Monster, Zip, headhunter, etc...

Yeah, I understand. We had a security installation business we sold to ADT two years ago. Getting productive labor was getting impossible. We kept our distribution business. Much easier to operate with all of the labor laws and the demand for quality productive labor.

I am just frustrated by those that just want to suck off the system when solid small business owners are doing everything possible to stay in business and keep their employees employed for the long term.

shawndoggy 06-01-2020 4:22 AM

anybody else having trouble working through the PPP employee-owner rules?

buffalow 06-01-2020 11:10 AM

From bank president today (I am in week 8): Hi Jason,

The house passed the PPP timing extension from 8 weeks to 24 weeks and the 60:40 breakdown from 75:25. It has to be approved by the Senate and then signed by Trump, which it appears that should happen this week, so more to come on that front.
As for the forgiveness, we are mailing out the attached letter and document checklist to all of our customers. We encourage you to join the webinar this Friday at 10:00 a.m. to help answer questions. However, some items may change if the new legislation is passed.

The 25% can include rent, utilities, and interest on loans originated prior to February 15, 2020.

shawndoggy 06-02-2020 12:59 AM

We are in week 8 too (thursday being our last day). The new employee-owner rules really threw our projected spending burn for a loop, given that it now excludes health insurance and retirement contributions for employee-owners (without defining what employee-owner actually means). We are considering whether to bonus out employees or roll the dice on not spending the full amount and wait and see whether Congress can actually get its ish together and pass a bill.

buffalow 06-03-2020 2:57 AM

For me, I am not blowing the money. I am still very concerned how this will all shake out and possibly ending up with a tax consequence. So we are being conservative like we have for 30 years.

wakeeater2003 06-04-2020 1:00 AM

I am going to have about 200k left over when all is said and done. We are running things as if none of the loan will be forgiven. We work off the premise nothing is done until it is done. Our reporting is solid and we should be good but I won’t do the touchdown dance until I have final approval of the forgiveness. I still have another month left and my bank is providing me specific instructions and their own application for forgiveness.

We will see how it goes.

buffalow 06-04-2020 4:57 AM

That is EXACTLY what we are doing!

shawndoggy 06-04-2020 4:58 AM

Senate passed the house extension bill that Buffalow referenced above. Now on the President's desk for sig. Changes percentages from 75/25 to 60/40 and extends time period to 24 weeks. Also extends repayment period from 2 years to 5, still at 1% interest.

60/40 is now a hard cliff.... so if you get to 59.8% you get NO forgiveness on any part of the loan. The old rule under 75/25 was that if you reached, say, 70%, that the forgivable amount of the loan would be reduced until 70% was 75% of the reduced number.

shawndoggy 06-04-2020 4:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wakeeater2003 (Post 1998281)
... and my bank is providing me specific instructions and their own application for forgiveness.

Your bank isn't using the SBA's form?

ord27 06-04-2020 12:25 PM

my bank is lost. They were during the application process too. I have been aggressively paying 76% labor. Sometimes well overpaying. I don't want saddled with this loan. I have 1 week left, congress drug their feet on re-defining payouts. I wish that I would have handled things like some of yall did. Oh well, I tried to play by the original rules.

shawndoggy 06-05-2020 5:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ord27 (Post 1998348)
my bank is lost. They were during the application process too. I have been aggressively paying 76% labor. Sometimes well overpaying. I don't want saddled with this loan. I have 1 week left, congress drug their feet on re-defining payouts. I wish that I would have handled things like some of yall did. Oh well, I tried to play by the original rules.

Agree. At the end of the day, it's still a windfall.

wakeeater2003 06-08-2020 12:42 AM

Well if it is true we 24 weeks now to use the funds, I will be able to use all funds on payroll/rent. Instead of being left with a bunch funds left over I should be able to apply to the next couple of pay rolls. Unless I am missing something.

buffalow 06-08-2020 3:52 AM

Looks like it was signed 24 weeks, only 60% payroll required.

shawndoggy 06-17-2020 1:28 PM

New forgiveness apps are out. Eight weeks or 24, you pick. But if you pick 24 then you are subject to the wage, hour and headcount requirements till October at least (depending when you got your loan)

scotthons 12-03-2020 5:25 AM

Curious to see how everyone's application for forgiveness is going. We just got ours approved in full. Granted, it was below the $50k mark and the application took all of 5 minutes to complete with supporting documents.
I hope everyone's experience is/was as simple as mine. Good luck!

shawndoggy 12-05-2020 4:13 AM

we completely geeked out on our application and spent a bunch of time with the rules to make sure we got our numbers right for full forgiveness. Our bank came back and edited our app with completely wacky numbers (that were more favorable to us) which the SBA rubber stamped. I guess the moral of the story is that they really really want to give the money away.

shawndoggy 12-22-2020 9:47 AM

Get ready for round 2.

wakeeater2003 12-22-2020 2:39 PM

Just got our forgiveness today. I put in a lot of work on the front end on this. Probably could have wrote it on a napkin and they still would have forgiven it. Our loan was not small either.

As Shawn Said above, I think they don’t want to money back.

We will see what round 2 looks like.

buffalow 12-28-2020 6:13 AM

Turned in mine with the EZ form. Said should be forgiven in 1-2 weeks.

Hmmm...

they say round two is coming soon.

wakeeater2003 12-29-2020 7:14 AM

I used EZ form as well supplied by the bank. With my pay roll service reports in it was very easy. Received forgiveness in about a week.

buffalow 09-14-2021 6:42 AM

How is everybody on the PPP stuff? Both of my loans have officially been forgiven and not showing as 'income', which is mind blowing. For those of you that were heavily impacted like we were, check our Employee Retention Credit. President Trump changed a few rules before he left office that may help you. The first is, that the ERC can still happen if you have received PPP. The second is they extended the term of it to two years. So basically you look at each quarter of 2019, ad compare it to the same respective quarter in 20 and 21. For every quarter that saw a 20% reduction in sales, you become eligible. The short version is that you can get credit of up to $10K per employee per quarter, less whatever the PPP paid. For many people this will result in a HUGE number. I have a friend that has 48 employees, and saw large reductions in sales. He is looking at a credit of over $200k. I am just going through the process with my accountant and payroll team, they have done a few, and said overall, it was pretty easy if you qualify.

Secondly - The rules for capital gains on a house you sell have changed again. If you sell your home for a profit of Under $500K, then you do not get taxed on the gain. If you sell for over $500K in profit then you are only taxed on the amount over. Also they changed that now you can do this every two years! For people that flip properties, this is a gold mind! Looking into 'Oakland Hills House Tax Rules'.

Hope you are all still in business and figuring it out. We have had to turn down so much business due to manpower that it is sickening.

psudy 09-14-2021 7:59 AM

Pretty sure thats only for primary residence and not investment properties.

buffalow 09-14-2021 12:13 PM

Psudy - That is a possibility. I did not dig into far since it was just our primary I was worried about.

95sn 09-15-2021 4:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psudy (Post 2012449)
Pretty sure thats only for primary residence and not investment properties.

This.


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