Raptor motor in MB and Moomba- report please
I'm intrigued by this motor. 5yr warranty cool! Base motor cool! now that people are actually running these in boats let's get some updates. those that have demoed them lets hear some reviews? How's the power? How's it sound? Fuel consumption?
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I will be testing one out soon. I have heard the power is night and day from a torque perspective. Will update once I can really test.
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Why is everyone so excited about ford's 6.2 motor. "Raptor motor" Now that's a marketing thing. It's still the same 6.2 motor, terrible on fuel in a truck. The gm 6.2 motor kills in every category. I've owned both in trucks along with ls3 in car.
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I had the opportunity to drive and ride behind the Raptor 440 for a majority of the Summer. Better low end power than my LS3 as well as a touch better fuel economy. (Same hull and same prop.) Best part, the 440 is a cheaper upgrade than the LS3.
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I got a chance to ride behind the 2015 Mojo a couple weeks ago, and that motor is a beast. Ballast was about 5000 pounds total and the boat would plane under 30 seconds. That's not fast by any means, but the 350 gm motor in my SA couldn't dream of planing out with that much weight, even with the upgraded prop (usually just over 3000 is the limit). I'm really excited that the 400 is standard, and curious how ridiculous it probably is in the 20' Mondo
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Tim's thanks for the info! What hull was this in? Also I'm more interested in the raptor 400, any experience with that motor as it's the base motor. My understanding is the 440 is a major cost upgrade over the 400.
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Ttime how was that mojo wake with 5k in it? Any pics?
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Good info, must perform well in the boat. Wasn't impressed in the trucks but good to see it performs well in boat and at a cheaper cost. |
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Supra SC hull. I have only been out in the 400 once so don't have a ton of experience with it. (It was a 2015 Mojo.) The 440 has a MSRP upgrade cost of around $6K. That is much less than the LS3 upgrade cost that was/is $9K. |
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The wake was amazing, very similar to a slammed SA or SC, just a little narrower. Super clean and huge. This is the only pic I have, but it gives you a pretty good idea. From a goproAttachment 37045 |
Funny the upgrade costs so much. Anyone know what is different between the 400 and the 440?? The ECM..thats it. When you look at it that way $6000 for a different ECM seems like a lot. Like anything else in the boat….break out another thousand!!!
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I demo'd a 2015 Moomba LSV with the Raptor. Smoother, quieter and didn't sound like it was working nearly as hard as the standard 350 in the 2014 Mondo demo'd same day, LSV had much more ballast filled as well.
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I was able to ride in a new MB with the 400 Raptor. It seem to have plenty of power not sure exactly which prop was on there but really want to try the 1235 on it. Heard that its a great combo.
As far as fuel consumption goes I will be able to give more input on that in a couple weeks. |
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I've heard the original prop is not super good. To much pitch but like 46mph top speed? Anyone now if a f22 will take a 15" prop? I think a 2313 would be a beast on a 2015 f22 or b52 Also anyone else with the raptor motor experience? |
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Yes a 15" will clear just fine. |
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Bit much meaning? Isn't the 2313 less aggressive than the 2315? |
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I think the 1235 will pull all the weight you want and save you fuel at the same time. IMO |
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We had 400's in the rear lockers and an 1100 up front plus stock and was able to plane with the stock prop. 14.5 x 15.25 |
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What boat was this? 1100 front bag is a lot of weight! Anyway maybe a 2249 might be a good one to try |
B52 23
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I was talking to a rep this weekend about Indmar switching to Ford . He said PCM will continue with GM he also added they have a new engine coming out that will top the Raptor in all categories.
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Raptor motor in MB and Moomba- report please
I have 25 hrs on my B52 with Raptor motor and the thing sips gas. I'm estimating that I'm burning about 4 gallons per hour. Much less than my X15 with 5.7 Ilmor.
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What size Raptor do you have and what kind of weight and activity (surf/wakeboard) are you doing and prop? Just curious since debating on a leftover SC345 or waiting on a 15 SC400 model with the Raptor. I surfing with a lot of weight and only using 4 gph, that might sway my decision to wait! |
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Nice info! I ride on a x15 all the time! We always use about 4 gals a set wakeboarding. How would you say the b52 compares wake wise to the x15? |
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I have the 400. Good mix of surfing with 4000+ ballast, 2000-3000lb wakeboarding and empty cruising. I'm really pleased with the engine! |
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B52 is a little more vert and maybe a bit more weight sensitive. I haven't gotten to try weight in the nose yet but with a 3/4 factory full I'm really happy with the wake. My x15 had plug n play totaled about 2000 lbs total ballast. If my memory is correct I would run about 3500 rpms surfing while the raptor motor is turning about 2600. Maybe my memory is off but it seems to run much lower rpms overall. |
driven a mix of boats with the 400 raptor. with different propellers. 1235 on the base 400 is almost unstoppable. It's like it barely recognizes that there's weight in them.
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I heard the same thing about the 1235 being a beast on this thing. |
2079, 1235, stock, and a 5 blade monster. the 1235 seemed like the right fit. the 2079 was a bit too aggressive, but might be proper for some people
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I would be Interested to see if a 5 blade would work. |
Is it true that the 400 is in reference to the torque not HP? I had a customer and a brand rep tell me this but when I got on Supra's website all they say is 400 and never actually say HP - 400. If this is true pretty smart marketing on skiers choice end, because I would just assume 400 HP.
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Indmar ---> "Based on Ford’s 6.2L SOHC V8, a proven workhorse, the Raptor 400 boasts some serious low-rpm torque at a staggering 400 lb-ft. - See more at: http://www.indmar.com/Engine/RaptorSeries/RAPTOR400.aspx#sthash.xud2u3dt.dpuf" |
I've got a 15 B52 with the 400 in it and I cant believe the amount of power it has, I ran the boat with stock prop, full #3200 stock, 10 people and it planed no problem! I'm really surprised how much more low end torque there is compared to the 5.7.
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I have a Raptor and one of the things about the 6.2 liter is it is a more simplistic motor especially compared to something like the ecoboost. Single overhead cam with a cast block. It may do better on economy in a boat because it does not have to work as hard as a smaller engine...the right engine for the job.
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I have been told it's only around 380hp& 400lb of torque
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400lbs seems low for a 6.2 motor |
Ok so the engines are CARB certified @the 400 Raptor being 349 actual HP and the 440 Raptor is 396 HP. CARB is the California Air and Resource Board. All engine manufactures have to turn over all engines to them so they can run tests on their machine to get actual ratings and make sure they pass California emissions standards. This is a fair test because all engines are done on the same machine. One Dyno may read different from the next so there is no cheating this test. The GM 6.0L is actually 361 HP and the GM 6.2L is 402 HP. My understanding that the only difference between the 400 and 440 is a chip that gets some extra performance but it is the same exact engine. That last statement again is hear say but from what I would consider a pretty good source.
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An Indmar engineer told me the same thing, while I was working for a dealership. Only difference is the ECM. Nothing internally at all. Thats why the price difference seems crazy.
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As for the differences between the 400 and 440, there is some difference in content in addition to a difference in the calibration. About the same as the differences between a base 5.7 and a premium 5.7. On the 5.7, there is a difference in the tune along with a few items different in the bill of materials. Same for the Ford 400/440. Not only that but there IS a performance difference between the 400 and the 440 with the 440 being able to handle larger boats or larger loads than the 400. |
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@ Kevin..can you tell me what components are different between the 400 and the 440. Other than the ECM. I'm asking because I oversaw the service department of a dealer that carried these. I had multiple conversations with the engineers that marinized these 6.2 engines. Those guys told me there is no difference other than the ECM. So if thats what the boys at indmar are telling dealers than I'm curious where you heard something different. I specifically asked about the usual changes..cams..injectors..fuel delivery..intake…exhaust…same answer to all..exactly the same other than the ECM. So what exactly is different and where are you finding that info? I feel knowledge is always a good thing so if I was told wrong I would love to have the correct info. I know on the 5.7's there was differences..that why we asked about the differences in the 6.2's.
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Ford is backing Indmar's 5 year warranty from what I am being told so if you go with a Ford, at least you have the big guy backing up the little guy.
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Don't know where you fellas are getting the figures from for your CARB HP but here is the link that I get my ones from http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/eng-cer...rt-ghg-14d.xls This is for the 2014 model year as the 2015 model year is pretty empty for all engine manufactures with the exception of Ilmor. Speaking of Ilmor they list the Chev based LS3 and LS7 engines + the Dodge V10 on the table looking at engine capacities.
350 (5.7) Indmar 215.00 HP @ 4900rpm Indmar 230.00 HP @ 5000rpm Mercury 224.00 HP @ 5000rpm PCM 211.00 HP @ 5000rpm L18 (6.0) Indmar 270.00 HP @ 5200rpm PCM 280.00 HP @ 5600rpm LS2 Ilmor 253.00 HP @ 5200rpm Indmar 300.00 HP @ 5200rpm MarinePower 310.00 HP @ 5600rpm Mercury 239.00 HP @ 5000rpm LS7 Ilmor 390.00 HP @ 5800rpm Ilmor 428.00 HP @ 6000rpm LSA Indmar 388.00 HP @ 5300rpm PCM 389.00 HP @ 5400rpm 8.0L Ilmor (Dodge V10 8.4L) 486.00 @ 6000rpm Mecury (Custom V8 block 8.2L) 392.00 @ 5000rpm Mecury (Custom V8 block 8.2L) 522.00 @ 5000rpm |
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HP is what the buying public has been taught to care about even though it is a derived number from torque and rpm. A Mazda rotary engine can make 700 plus hp in racing trim but it wouldn't do well pushing a loaded wake boat because it has relatively low torque for the HP. A diesel engine can have 600-800 fl-lb torque yet only 180-200hp. The torque is a better number to know to understand the work the engine can do. |
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Yes, the ECM and calibration are different. The bill of materials is different for the 400 and 440 as things like the cover, colors, some brackets etc. are different between versions. Early versions of the 440 didn't have all of the different items on them and were more as you were told, basically the same except for programming, ecm and performance. Just as the 5.7 base and premium with a different top and programing. A base 5.7 and a premium 5.7 have the same cams, injectors, etc. There seems to be a misconception that there are internal differences in these versions of the 5.7. Not so. The 5.7 blocks don't know if they will be a base or premium when they arrive at a marinizer. In other words, the differences in the 5.7s are not as vast as most assume. The point being made to the dealers is that the 6.2 as it comes from Ford to Indmar is a common unit inside the 400, 440 and 575 package. This reduces the number of engine types a service tech must be trained on and reduces the number of parts needed to support and service engines at the dealer. Common parts for all versions. |
Have not had a chance to check fuel consumption yet however I did try a different prop today and it's a serious contender on the motor. I have a 2015 MB B52 23 and I put an OJ 5 Blade on it and the motor responded very well. With two people in the boat normal gear 300lbs of lead and stock ballast full. It comes out of the hole quite well. Didn't even need the cav plate to plane like with the stock prop.
3100rpm @ 23.6 mph |
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After putting a good 10 hrs of hard riding on this monster fully loaded and 4 grown men on board. It burned a little under 6.5 gph.
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I have the 400 Raptor in a 2015 Moomba Mondo. Got about 60 hours on it already and about 20 of them are from pulling comps. I'm running about 4200 lbs of ballast before people. The only time I've ever crossed 1/4 of a tank besides the competitions was we had 13 people in the boat plus full ballast running 3700 rpm with the 15in acme 4 blade 12 pitch? (I think). It usually cost me about 40 bucks for a afternoon of 4 riders taking a wakeboar and wakesurf set. Im extremely happy with it.
Only issue is the motor is flat out wider. So watch some of your hoses and wires that run past the motor. Since there is barely any room between the manifolds and the wall, when you fill up the sacks, the wall bows just a touch and causes the ballast hose to press on the manifold and melt. I put a piece of aluminum behind the wall to support it and I havent had any issues since. |
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