2016 Tige RZX
 

Tige sent us a new RZX with an Indmar 575 SC, TAPS3 and the complete freedom to setup as we wished. I gotta be honest, I have been a hold out on the surf systems for making the best wake. That has changed, the surf wave on this boat is the best we have experienced to date. I would still prefer the AVX to the TAPS3 on the Z3, but on the RZX, TAPS3 works exceptionally.

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ragboy,

the gif of you surfing on your instgram was so awesome. i dont think i had seen you in the water before!

lol, oh yeah, I get out there. This boat makes me feel like a normal rider almost, I can ride the entire wave.

how many gph does that 575 burn?

We put about 30 hours on it, and it consistently got right about 8GPH. When weighted with 500 lbs extra in each corner it ran at 3600 RPM surfing about 11.4 GPH. We also added a bit more people and it got to 3800 RPM, and still 8GPH. I am very excited about that, I expected 10-12 GPH based on stories of other boats and super charged motors. It makes me feel like 6 GPH with the Indmar 440 is doable. 6 GPH with a 6k lb boat with 4k ballast and people and gear would be phenomenal. I am looking forward to trying.

Also, the 575SC is SUPER quiet in this boat. It was also very gentle and smooth with easy pull ups. At the #prayforgodzilla event we had an accident on the water that turned out just fine but was scary for a bit. I started dumping weight and hit it and as I was about to pass a sheriff on the water standing still he took off in his jet boat. He was going lights and siren and I was keeping right up with him at 40 MPH and I still had half my weight and I still had throttle left.

It was equipped with this:

ACME 2249 - 15x14.25 .105 cup

Oh, and I don't fudge on gas calcs. I write down the hours to the tenth and top off the tank as close to the same way each time and keep receipts.

Holy high RPM batman. Wave looks nice though

The RPM is up there, but its super quiet, it doesn't bother. And 8 GPH seems reasonable for that setup and motor.

Love this boat!

How does that compare to your Z3?

The Z3 surfs at 3100-3300 RPM at 11.2-11.8 and gets a ridiculous 3.5 GPH surfing, all day long. It has been well documented we have towed many events for 11 hours straight without any gas even on the lake to put in it.

I think the RZX at 8GPH with that motor is pretty great, better than I expected when weighted level with 4k of ballast and people. I think playing with the prop and going with the Indmar 440 could get this to 6 GPH and still surf great and I plan on testing that. I want to get 6GPH so that with the 65 gallon tank I have 10+ hours of surfing for the West Coast Open.

Yeah right! Your Tige is defying the laws of physics I suppose! I'm guessing of those 11straight hours of u guys are idling around talking how wonderful the boat is rather than moving any weight. I have no reason to doubt your rzx number really but no way is your z3 cruising at 3000plus rpms for an hr straight and only using 3.5gals!!!!

You are welcome to not believe it. I took meticulous records for about 100 hours and it averaged 3.5 hours. I made this video after the west coast open.

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There were hundreds of people there, and there is NO gas on this lake. We have to take the boat off of the lake at night and go gas it up for the next day. During an event it is surfing and then picking people up, non stop.

Anyway, its as near a fact as you can get, because there are so many witnesses to this boat surfing and using so little gas. Honestly, my wave runners use more gas at the event, but its the truth.

I'm just questioning your math is all. More likely 60hrs of pulling and 40hrs of idling around is my guess on that 100hrs. Sorry I don't care a fuel injected v8 is the same in that Tige as it is in any other boat. A MB a moomba or whatever other boat they out it in.

That thing is freaking slammed. Water is above rub rail on that video.

@ron, thats kinda funny especially if you ride while I am driving. I can get someone back up after they fall in under 35 seconds. We are never idling for 40 hours of the time. I have been doing the polar bear event now for 6 years and the last four pay for most of the gas or know exactly what each boat does. Everyone is running the sake for all the riders, it is very organized. In that situation the Tige will always use less gas with similar weight and engine. Exactly why I can only speculate, but its just the truth. That doesn't make it have a better wake, it just is what it is.

@DTB Which boat is slammed? We usually have several inches on the Z3 before getting to the rub rail, and about a foot or so before getting to the RZX rub rail since that boat is so deep.

Tige Z3 > Isaac Newton

Super special indmar 400 that drinks half the gas of the indmar 400s that are supplied to other boat manufacturers.

Super special hull that actually has the Chuck Norris effect on water. Even with a deep v that has more wetted surface and drag than a traditional wake hull, it actually uses sonar to "warn" the water of its arrival. In response, the water actually becomes supergelophobic, and actually repels the hull, which actually pushes the boat along.


Surprising how a supra SC with indmar 400 burns twice the gph with a hull shape that drags less than a deep v.


Saying its "documented" should indicate that it was tracked and recorded by an independent professional that has no skin in the game. Not a video of surfing with added commentary from the owner....

Awesome surfing in that video though.

2016 Tige RZX
 

Fixable that's good! My guess would be that maybe they only surf with a tail wind and down hill the whole time!

Seriously though even the v8s in the tow vehicles we use are hardly getting 3.5gals per hr! Maybe surfing is just more efficient than wake boarding which is where I see all my numbers from many diff boats all of which are around the 7gph range. But I always thought surfing was even less efficient that wakeboarding

^It is.....

Quite a bit more energy wasted when surfing.

wondered how long it would take for the genius tige haters to come out of the woodwork.

If Rob has done the experiment and that is the result then I don't know why you think your theory is more correct than his practise.

In our Tige ( a 2011 with 343h.p. PCM) we average 4 to 5 gph surfing and 5 to 7 gph wakeboarding. The low figures are partially loaded,while the high figures reflect fully loaded. Fully loaded is usually 3000 lbs surfing and 2100 to 2200 wakeboarding. We surf at 11.8 to 12.3 mph and wakeboard at 22.5 to 23.5 mph. We have a RZ2 which is a all around boat not dedicated to one particular sport.

@ron We don't need to argue about it. But everyone that knows me or rides with us know that I wouldn't fudge it, keep careful records, etc, etc.

Here's a challenge, come surf with us for a day, or someone that you would believe in my area to surf with us. We will top of the tank, go out and put 6 hours on the boat and come in and top off at the same gas station. It will be between 3 and 4.5, since you can't always top off quite the same and whatever variables, but over time it averages to 3.5.

We host people all of the time. I am willing to put my money where my mouth is, lets do it, it would be fun. It would have to be soon, since the Wake9 Z3 is being sold soon.

@cwb4me Our previous Tige Z3 had the PCM 409 in it, and averaged about 4.5, which I thought was great. I don't recall measuring the RZ2 we had with the 343, but it was in the 4 range. The 24VE we had before that, with the MP340, was also 4, we measured that one many times.

2016 Tige RZX
 

Fwiw, our rough numbers show wakeboarding using on average almost 2x as much fuel as surfing. Heavily weighted wb is even more.

Eric and Ron send someone out.

You for sure should send someone. I have surfed with the Garcia's and been to many of there events. If Robert says he is getting 3.5 - 4 GPH per hour I for one believe him. Been to more than one of wake 9`S events and watched them surf all day without getting fuel. I think the Tige hull being so flat bottomed has something to do with it. For the record I like the tige wake but not the boat just saying I have witnessed what Robert is saying

Eric and Ron, I was a judge at one of the EWT stops last year and rode on the Z3 for 2 days straight, it's not BS, the boat gets the fuel mileage he is claiming. The other thing is, watch one of the contests that Ragboy runs, they are very efficient at moving riders through. After a rider's run is complete, the boat basically does a u-turn and the jet ski has the next rider in position and ready to go.

What would he gain by lying about the fuel consumption?

@harold That is the only thing I can think of also, its the convex hull.

Thanks for the backup guys. ;-)

As a reference, I have been running my 2013 X-30 for a few years now and kept great gas records for the first couple years.

Here are some stats from running it heavily weighted for Wakeboarding (and a little bit of surfing too). We definitely found wakeboarding uses more fuel.
The boat has the Ilmor 6.0 and I have the Acme 2305 Prop on it.
We are at an altitude of 3200ft
Wakeboarding with 3k+ runs at about 4100 rpms at 22.5mph.

58.2 hours - 178 liters (August.25th, 2013)
67.2 Hours - 178 liters (Sept.9th,2013)
74.2 Hours - 145 liters (Sept.11th,2013)
82.9 Hours - 117 liters (Sept.14th, 2013)
87.1 Hours - 155 liters (Sept.15th,2013)

This works out to 5.4GPH

While running with the 1235 Prop I was averaging about 5.8Gph, switching to the Acme 2305 reduced RPMs and fuel useage.

I would say for surfing only, the usage would be in the 4's.

Book your trip with Ragboy Eric and Ron. Always good to see "foot in mouth" type scenario's or are we only going to get crickets now!?

Sorry but I wouldn't drive halfway across town to wake surf let alone halfway across the country! As nice as Robert is I'm just not into wake surfing.
Bottom line is maybe wake surfing in general is more fuel efficient than wakeboarding is. Perhaps riders fall more and it takes longer in a given set? How long is a wake surfing set anyway? For me I consider time a wakeboarder goes in the water to the time he gets back in boat is about 25mins. About 5falls and about 7miles traveled.


Perhaps the next topic should be is wakesurfing more or less fuel efficient than wakeboarding?

2016 Tige RZX
 

That's great fuel use considering what I've seen.

Depends how you're measuring efficiency, right?

Some people boo hoo on wakesurfing, so that would be a negative fun per gallon measure. While others buy 150+ thousand dollar boats to surf the gnar, so you can be sure they have a high high fun per gallon/dollar spent when they nail that surface 360 for the first time. :p

Some guys just want to sit and listen to music and need their engine to act as a generator so they can bro out at the party cove, low mpg, low gal per hour, if it's windy it might cost a lot when their stash blows away:eek:

Or, miles per gallon - random observance from this thread 4-5gal/hr surf vs 5-7gal/hr for board, so roughly the same :banghead:

It's a boat, you're spending money. Who spends money better...? Right?

When we go out surfing, we switch riders, and then a new rider takes about 20-40 mins, just depends on the rider and depending on how many people. I have taken out my kids at times and have seen them surf for an hour session practicing.

When practicing, we do something called "shotgun surfing" where we go down the main body of water late in the afternoon on a weekday when flat and beautiful and lots of room. This allows us to go straight and never be turning and I turn around in 30 seconds and they get rope and get up immediately. We do this to maximize that late afternoon glass and you feel like you are getting in 30 mins of surfing in a 15 min session.

When we do this, we will get less than 4GPH. The thing is, we are running at 3200 RPM and that Z3 is somehow more efficient than many other hulls, it just is.

You think of surfing like something you do a second thought, wake boarding is primary for you. Sounds like you WB hard, and chill and surf. While we may chill and surf at times, when we go out everyone is pushing themselves and surfing hard. No one is standing around idling.

I am sorry, but let's think about this for a minute.......

You are expecting me to believe that a loaded up boat surfing under heavy load at 3200rpms, is getting better fuel economy than a completely unloaded F250 with the same engine traveling at a steady 65mph on a flat road at a steady 1500-1600rpms?

Maybe that's the case, but forgive me for having a hard time believing it...... It certainly goes against all of the known things that make a boat much less efficient than a truck.

As for surfing gph versus wake gph, I have always had worse fuel consumption when surfing. I am running the same weight, and very similar rpm. With the boat being off plane for surfing, the engine is working harder to maintain speed. We are going much slower, but There is a ton of prop slip and wasted energy compared to when we are boarding. This will certainly vary from one boat to the other...... But every one, of the 7 I have owned, drank more fuel while surfing. I won't argue that my experience should be the rule... It could very well be different for others.

On all of the boats I have had, I have never seen heavier fuel consumption at wake boarding. I usually will use more cruising down the lake at 25-30 mph unweighted rather than wakesurfing with 3500 lbs of ballast plus people.

My F150 with eco boost will get 20 MPG going 65ish flat down the road, that calculates to almost exactly 3 GPH.

As far as our Z3, I can only tell you that for the first 70 hours or so, I measured every hour and fuel stop, here are the results:

http://bit.ly/z3-gas

And I can tell you it still gets that good, it IS hard to believe, it still blows me away. I kid you not, at the polar bear, everyone else is filling up, including me in the RZX and that thing is at like 3/4 tank. It can surf 12 hours on one take no problem.

Yes, its quite hard to believe. Its not just our Z3, others with the Z3 and the indmar 400 get the same results or very close.

If I was lying, this would be like some David Blane invested illusion with all of the events we do, group rides, etc. And I have yet to hear one other Z3 owner come back to me pissed off saying they don't get anywhere near that gas economy. Think about it, they would be pissed. I know I would be.

I always thought wake surfing with same amount of ballast vs wakeboarding with same ballast would burn more gas, but some of you guys are saying the opposite. this would be an interesting topic.

As for Roberts GPH, I believe him. I run my A22 with 4000 plus people and gear and I have calculated the hours, using the same pump at the same gas station on the same day to fill up before and after riding. I have done this with the OJ Cinco prop, ACME 1235, and now my ACME 2315. I have the INDMAR 335 CAT motor. I forget the exact numbers for each prop but my GPH for all of them were between 4.25 gph and 4.75 gph.

I always keep my boat full. After I take it out I refill it with 5 gallon cans. I use the access door under the rear seat to view the fuel level . So i'm sure every refill is the same. Where my variance comes in is how far down the lake I travel. Common sense tells you more rpm's = more gph. That's why wakeboarding uses more fuel than surfing.

I think what people fail to forget here is that the Wake9 Z3 is running listed. I've been on it at the last Polarbears and even though I wasn't auditing Ragboys GPH calculations I believe it was getting sub 4GPH. I use to run a 2007 23LSV listed, no wedge, and would also get 4GPH. Once I put on the wicked wave(SG Device) and started running level I was up to 6 to 7 GPH.

FWIW - I was talking to a dealer who has been in the business a long time and they said at a recent comp the surfing session burned more fuel than the wakeboarding session. First time he has ever experienced that.

Yes, the Z3 is listed about 7 deg in that video, sorry, I thought that was understood. ;-)

Every hull is different, it would be possible to burn more gas on the Z3 or any boat if it is weighted much heavier surfing, but in our experience, wake boarding has always used more gas.

The RZX in the first video is running flat and it is running the Indmar supercharged Rousch 575 SC and 4000 lbs of water plus people and it is only using 8 GPH like that, calculated carefully over about 30 hours now.

I'll bite....I love mathematical puzzles.

I just don't see how you can burn more fuel surfing than wakeboarding?

Let's take all the variables out such as falls and lengths of sets, weight boat type. All things equal it's impossible for wakeboarding to burn less fuel. Time here is key. We pull 5 wakeboarders and then 5 surfers for the same amount of time each set all no falls.

Wakeboarding
Boat requires way more time to plane to 24mph. You're turning way more rpms at riding speed all equals burning more fuel.

Surfing.
Time to speed is way less. Turning lower rpms at ride speed equals burning less fuel.



Now let's talk some common variables

Wakeboarders tend to fall more, more falls, more holeshots, more time to speed , equals more fuel burned if you're on the water the same amount of time doing both i fail to see any situation where a wakeboarder only boat burns less fuel all things equal.

Maybe the one variable that helps the gph be so close is the fact you idle way more wakeboarding than surfing when picking up a downed rider. Picking up downed riders for wakeboarding is also way more frequent. lets for argument sake say falls are same frequency in order to simplify. You're already 75ft back, you're going twice the speed which means the reaction time to slow down is higher, which means the boat travels farther away, now you get to rider and you have to idle the 75ft back out before you hit the holeshot, which all means way more idle time picking up riders wakeboarding all day long. This is one variable that adds up the most in my eyes to make the difference so close. I bet if you took the idle time of any boat out surfing to any wakeboat out the exact time the wakeboat idle time will be way more. Helping it's overall gph.

RPM's don't always directly raise the fuel burn. Boats are simple single speed transmissions, and prop pitch will make a huge difference. If a boat is propped to turn its peak torque RPM's at wakeboard speeds, than the motor is going to be operating at a low torque/hp range at surf speeds, and will need additional throttle input to maintain speed without dropping off.

Any MEFI injection computer can give you instant GPH readings, a fuel flow gauge or a laptop will tell you your burn rate at surf speed or wakeboard speed easily. Standard issue readout on most of the new dash systems.

More RPM will not automatically equal more fuel burned. The engine load is going to be a huge factor in that. It would be possible to have more fuel burned at a high load 2000 RPM scenario then a 3000 rpm boat on plane scenario. What would be cool, is to see the load of the engine during the different condition. If the engine load is close, then yes, the deciding factor would be RPM.

I thought this was a Tige RZX review thread? :D

HAHA, yeah, well its still a good conversation. Especially with that 575 being so much more efficient than I expected. You can still post any question or comment you have on the RZX, its all good. ;-)

Is the RZX priced similarly to the ASR? What's different on the RZX hull that makes it surf better than the ASR? They look almost identical to me.

I think they are priced similarly, I know the RZX msrp is like 30k less than the G. But how they sell in the wild, I don't know. I stay out of that stuff mostly.

The hull is similar up front and completely different in the back. The ASR has those super round corners, the RZX are super sharp rear corners. The ASR has that hull step and integrated wake plate in the hull, the RZX is more like a normal convex V hull tige with taps plate. The RZX has less V than any other tige in the rear of the hull, but a deep V and keel up front.

One of the real unique things I notice on the RZX hull, that I don't think I have seen on any other surf boat, is the crazy wide front. It doesn't taper up like other boats and I wonder if that helps with the push and transition, spreading that water out.

http://wake9-misc.s3.amazonaws.com/2...at-front-2.jpg

So Tige is planning on running the ASR and the RZX together? Surf focus vs wakeboard focus? Those are two bohemeths. Anbody got a wakeboard review yet on the RZX? Curious of that steep v entry compares.

I don't know about the ASR part of the question, I have seen the wakeboard wake on the ASR and it seemed pretty stellar. I would love to get a great wakeboarder behind this same boat, just to see.

Here is a great clip my son RJ took of Aaron Rathy behind the ASR.

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Yea I have been behind the ASR half dozen times. Loved the wake

So why do they make a Rzx and a Asr? Does one wakeboard better that the other? Why doesn't the Asr have taps 3?I wakeboard 90% of the time but if I was looking at a flagship wakeboat , I would still wan to be able to do transfers when I go surfing. Are they working on taps 3 for the Asr?

The RZX was designed to make a first class wake surf wake and still give a great wakeboard wake on par with what the ASR has.

I can validate the wake surf wake, its stellar. I have no experience with the wakeboard wake. I would be willing to give an experienced wakeboarder a pull, if someone was in our area. ;-)

I think we we look for a new boat , I would throw this in the mix if it has a good wakeboard wake. I thought our next boat would be a G23, but I like the fuel efficiency Of the Rxz and to be honest I really like the storage for the surf boards at the back, that seams like such a good idea. I also like that it comes with clamping racks.

The excellent fuel efficiency stated in this thread was on the Z3, not the RZX. The RZX was stated as getting about 8gph on stock ballast while surfing. That isn't any better than a G. It's about the same as a G with a 550. (So long as we are talking about the newer Gs with the 17" prop and 2:1 gearing.

The surf board storage is cool, but you can put like 20 boards in the rear compartments of a G23. Those compartments are giant.

Clamping racks...... Heck ya. Nautique needs to get on that ASAP. I am putting them on my G this winter.

Not taking anything away from the RZX. It looks like an awesome boat, and you should definitely include it in your decision. Just didn't want you to think the RZX was the one getting less than 4gph.

Looked at local pricing and the local dealer is charging more for a Asr , compared to the dealer selling g23's. I thought if it was going to be 10-20 cheaper for a Rzx then I would look at it, but if it is going to be more then it is not an option especially when it come time to resell.

Yes, the 3.5 GPH was on the Z3, the RZX with the 575 is 8GPH, which I think is still very good for that weight and that motor.

@shock How they are being priced in the wild I am sure is a huge factor in anybody's decision and resale as well. My review is focusing on that surf wake, and based on that, it should be on anyones list to make sure they get a good demo. We have been spending 2 days a week on it, because we can't get enough of it, its a tremendous wake surf wake.

As always, we love to see more people enjoying wakesurfing with their families and we will surf with you no matter what boat you buy. ;-)

The local dealer had a 2015 demo, with a 440 pretty loaded. No metal flake. Simple white , with blue accent for 147 k cad. Meanwhile the other dealer sold there loaded g23 with 550 , and totally loaded , metal flake etc for 150 k

Anyone own a G23? I'd like to know what mileage numbers are. I have a 2014 RZ2 and it gets great mileage. I've heard the Gs are absolute hogs which is why I am leaning towards the RZX. How's the surf wave of an RZ2 compared to the RZX ragboy?

He says in the video that it's the best surf wave of any boat they have experienced to date. I'm guessing that means that the surf wave on the RZX is better than the RZ2? :D:D:D

I liked the RZX wave better than the RZ2 and G23 (I havent ridden behind a new 2016 G23). The RZX has the awesome lip of the Z3, but it was way more tuneable. Tige has the best wake for airs in my opinion because of their steeper transition and defined lip.

Yeah I guess what I was wondering is how much better. If it's only day 5% better then it's not worth me spending 50k to upgrade but if it's night and day then I will.

That's understandable. I think the Z3 wave is better than the RZ2 (even though I like driving the RZ2 better) and then this would be above that. Call your dealer and take one for a test ride. That's the best way to figure out which wave YOU like best.