Towing Myth Busted-Audi
 

Attachment 40932Attachment 40933
Just picked up new Supra SE 450 from dealer with new 2017 Audi Q7 3.0 (gas) and towed it straight to the lake with 60 gallons gas, 5 passengers, 55 # puppy, and both stock ice chests full. With air suspension, 4-wheel steering and every other option it towed that >7000 # load without gear hunting cruising at 60-65 mph @< 2500 rpm. Steering, handling and braking were quite smooth. Acceleration was good even up hill. 100 deg outside and no overheating issues with AC on all the way.

Nice setup you got there! Congrats!

OMG you towed a boat with out using. Diesel!!!!!
I can't believe it!!!! LOL sure Farm Equipment will tow a boat no problem
But gassers have been doing it fun for years. Enjoy your new rides they look great

AWD and a reasonable engine. Audi's all have great brakes. Towing is easy, and you can still get in and out of both the car and the parking spot.
Of course someone is bound to tell you that it will work better after the 6" lift kit is installed. ;)

Hope you got the extended warranty. Lol

Not saying it can't do it, but repairs on that won't be cheap out of warranty.

It's barely May of 2016, why are they seeing vehicles already as 2017? Will that not do weird things to the value down the line when there's a ton of miles on what then should be a new car?

I towed my old 18 foot Stingray with my Subaru. It did fine, then my rear differential locked up and was toast. Just sayin...

It will do fine until bad weather or an emergency stop or swerve is needed . You better check with your insurance co and make sure they will cover that combination . The max towing capacity is 7700lbs you said you were at 7k with out gear ?

^^^OMG^^^
Yea towing a boat like that in "bad weather" that's what most of us do. Paleeze "hey honey looks like a Thunder Storm is coming let's go tow the boat up and down the freeway" LOL.
In all my boating experience (and I have done some pretty long road trips) I have never been caught in a storm!! That's Not to say it can't happen but it can certainly be avoided. And as far as braking again Paleeze!!! Cars like that Audi have brakes that are twice as good as most of the American SUVs on the road. Example my friend had a Surburban that had a Huge tow capacity. That thing couldn't stop my 2800 lb Air Nautique it its life depended on it. Ask any one with a Manley Tahoe or GMC Denali how their SUV Stops LOL

Regardless of weather, which I've been in plenty of thunderstorms on the road in heavy rain towing my boat, he would still be over weight. That car is way undersized for that large of boat, and I'm not really the cautious type. If it starts swaying it will take the Audi for a ride. Blow hard comments like the one above are unbelievable. Way to go WW.

Looks like AWS, congrats on new SE & Audi. Where do you boat at?

Says the tow capacity is 7700 lbs for a Q7. Web says a Supra SE 450 is 5300 boat only and 6900 boat and trailer. So he is right at the limit.

That has more to do with GM skimping on parts then North American made vehicles.
I went from a gmc 1500 to a same era f150 towing the same 23' supra. GM would warp rotors by the end of the summer till I went to Baer rotors. The ford never had any issue running the same size 22's.

6900 on the trailer. betting that's dry.
601lbs in fuel(83gal x 7.25lbs). 200lbs in gear/fenders/anchors boards/leftover water ballast/etc..
now he's at 7700lbs.

throw in 5 peeps heading to the lake and I bet it is well north of the GCWR for that Audi.

sure it'll make many many trips and never have an issue and I would guess that there's some safety factor in that tow rating but then again, audi is in bed with VW and we all know where the emissions ratings went :)

one at-fault accident and I bet an insurance company is sniffing around being over the GCWR for that rig..

Are you being serious about not ever being caught in a storm while towing? :confused:

I can't even count how many storms I've had to tow my boats through. On 1 trip to Lake Havasu for Memorial day, we got caught in a crazy hail storm in New Mexico where they had to bring out snow plows to clear the hail off of the roads and then on the way home, it was danged near blizzard conditions at the top of Vail pass. I've been in torrential downpours and had the trailer hydroplane (my trailer has the 20's with 275's on them), had the cover blow off because we were on the outskirts of a tornado in Wyoming and then the boat filled up with hail. I seriously can't even recall every storm I've been through because it's that many.

I'm sure he will be fine in bad weather though since that thing probably has a ton of systems to control it from veering all over the place.

^ This. I hate towing anything big or heavy with a short wheelbase. It ranges from not fun to downright scary depending on conditions. If all he does is tow a couple miles down slow back roads to the ramp across town I doubt using that wee little econobox will ever be an issue. If OP does long distance towing eventually it'll get old and he'll buy a heavier longer wheelbase vehicle.

Timmy: sounds like you are a victim of your bad ideas. Let me list them out for you so you can hopefully avoid drama in the future.

Bad Ideas
1: Lake Havasu on a 3 day weekend
2: trailer with 20's
3: road trip with out checking the weather station.
4. Towing with a cover (rankin covers excluded)

This PSA has been brought to you by "Common Sense" please don't leave home with out it.

LOL of corse I'm using scarzim I understand freak weather can pop out of no where in some areas of the states. But even then you can pull over and wait it out

Do yourself a favor and buy an old excursion with whatever engine you want and keep your boat and family safer. You can pickup a 2001 for like 7 to 9 thousand.

Dear Grant,
You live in an imaginary world where the weather doesn't change. Here in Colorado, the weather forecaster puts a 30% chance of rain in the forecast because they just don't know.
1. Lake Havasu was fine. The travel in New Mexico and Colorado was the issue.
2. Have you towed a boat that has 20's on it? They tow better than anything I have ever towed.
3. See prior comments about weather in states that have actual water in them.
4. If you leave the cover off, you have to clean the boat when you get to the lake because of the amount of dust and road debris that winds up in the boat.

Sincerely,
Someone who actually tows their boat out of state

First off, what's wrong with Havasu on a 3 Day Weekend? Other than mAss boobies, boats & beer. It gets a little hectic in the popular spots but Havasu is a big lake. If you don't want to rage in the channel you can head down past Steamboat and it's pretty mellow down there.

I'm heading out there Memorial but not till Saturday night so I'll get the mellow Sunday-Monday beer drinkers haha.

I have to agree Grant. You live in a state where the weather forecast can be rerun a month at a time. 75 and sunny..... Around here we are lucky if the weather guys can predict clouds correctly. Not to mention when we have to come home, we have to come home. Weather be damned.

Just because you can do it doesn't mean that it is safe.

I don't think that you need a diesel to pull a towboat but a 1/2 ton truck is better than the Q7. Im sure you have all the power in the world, but the short wheel base is what hurts the Q7. It is so much easier for the boat to pull that car around than a 1/2 ton pickup.

I'm glad it pulls your new boat, but when Im pulling my boat with my family in the car, I don't want something that I have too think twice about.

Just my two cents, but after have a family member get severely hurt in a car accident towing a boat with a small SUV I wont ever be apart of that again.

For all you short wheelbase haters... are you also ruling out towing with a std cab half ton?

cuz the Q7's 118" wheelbase sure compares awfully favorably to the big three's 119-120" standard cab pickups.

And it's only 100 lbs lighter.

I would imagine much heavier springs in a half ton which needs to be considered with the shorter wheel base. Not saying it has to be a diesel but heavier springs and as stated above better gearing, rear differentials can heat up in a hurry with all the extra weight and then she's toast.

A half ton pick up has been wussy-ed out to the point they are nothing but cars with a bed. Soft suspension and ride comfort takes precedent over carrying and towing capacity. That is why the Audi matches up so close. I have yet to see any commercial carrier, dealer or long distant tower choose a 6cyl light weight short wheel base vehicle to do the job. If you want a real truck you have to go with a 3/4-1 Ton.

That is probably not so much because they have been "wussy-ed" as much as it is that commercial hot shot haulers are usually pulling 40 ft+ goose necks where the trailer alone exceeds 50% of a half tons towing capacity. The current half tons are more capable than they have ever been but when you are hauling 15,000+ lbs you typically need a dualy with a diesel. I would never buy a half ton to tow commercially because it really limits the jobs you can take.

I'm an extreme example, but I used my AWD Honda pilot to tow my VLX from the ramp to my house (1/8 mile) and never anywhere else. It had the torque and traction to yank it right out without any problems. Everything went well for 2 years until it didn't. The gentle incline to the driveway blew up my reverse gear and I had to buy a new transmission just to sell the thing. There are a lot of things to consider when under powering a tow vehicle.

You think that American made 1/2 ton trucks don't have transmission issues? haha

I've been towing with my Pilot since it was purchased in 2012 and haven't had ANY issues with it. Have done multiple 3 hour trips with it as well. Never skips a beat.

Completely antidotal story with no details. Accidents happen with 1/2 ton trucks too.

Cmon man!

I wondered the same thing. But I can tell you almost all the Q7s leaving the lots right now are leases because there are no discounts off MSRP yet due to the redesign. So that mileage discrepancy will have to be dealt with by the dealerships and the leasing companies, no?

118"-120" is a short wheelbase. A Ford regular cab pickup is 133" wheelbase, crew cab is 168". A regular cab weighs about 5000 lbs, crew cab a few hundred more.

A F-150 regular cab short bed is 117" and about 4000 lbs... It can be downright scary to tow 5000+ lbs with one. Been there done that, never again. The foreign econobox wheelbase is not suitable for towing heavy loads, just as the SWB play truck is not suitable for towing heavy loads. Not to say it can't be done, but just because you can doesn't mean it's a great idea...

We have reached a point where people are claiming 5000 lbs with an F150 is scary? A review of ones driving habits might be more helpful than a bigger truck, perhaps...

Braking...trailer brakes make the difference especially with an electronic controller.

Someone really needs to make a call to Top Gear so we can finally put all of this to rest. Set up a few different rigs all towing the same trailer and put them through their paces (slalom and braking, etc.) How do we do this? Do we start a petition?

I'm gonna leave this here to rile everyone up

I watched The Relevant last night. Talk about weather coming out of no where. I'm going to have to take back all the bad things I said about people who don't look at the weather channel B4 going to the Lake :)
People were correct, Here in Ca the weather is pretty predictable. But in other areas your right weather can pop out of no where and im sure the weather channel has no clue!

Look up tfl truck on you tube.

I like what they are trying to do BUT



^^^^ those guys are idots



They have no idea how to do a accurate test.

I mean... is the guy that can't spell idiot or use "an" correctly, let alone punctuation, really in a position to call someone an idiot?

:p

Why not...it's got the horsepower so it should be safe......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_nPTqSBcWk

I got the HD towing package on mine as well. Tows like a dream.

It's just a few miles to the ramp a couple times a year!

https://youtu.be/lAfZ1N56qjY

I love these treads... Amazing how ignorant you pickup truck owners are... ever hear of a overhead cam engine? :)

Why would someone who can afford a 100k+ boat (disposable income) victimize themself with a ****ty unrefined drive 5 days a week so they can "safely" tow 2 days a week?

Why can't we spend more and get a nice SUV that does it all? Aka Q7, Cheyenne, Touareg, etc.

Btw that was my rant post..sorry if I offended thee

I have an SE450 and towed it twice with my 5.0 F150. It worked well power wise but towing it 2.5 hours to our lake on the interstate was not all that fun on the suspension when semis would pass. there was a lot of rear sway and the rear felt mushy.

I just upgraded to a F250 and truly could not tell the boat was back there. I have a hard time believing people who say they can't feel 8K(boat, trailer, gear and gas) with a half ton. If you tow less than an hour and stay off the interstate I'm sure the Q7 gets the job done just fine. truth be told I just wanted a 3/4 ton because I prefer driving a tank and feeling like the biggest on the road. It's all personal preference as long as your not way over the combined weight number. That's my take, feel free to disagree.

LOL I guess that's what I get for trying to write something before the boss walks in.

You one thing that does it all guys are chasing a unicorn . There is no one boat or car or truck that can do it all. If you can afford a 100K plus boat then you can afford another 5-10 K and buy a 10 year old tow pig 3/4 ton or better . Then you will have plenty of cash to buy what ever little foreign whoopty do you like.

^^ truth. Had a 4x4 Tundra, pulled the boat like a dream. Also drove it to work everyday. Got 10 mpg and couldn't park the damn thing without a 3 pt turn. I'm in the process of modding our Jeep Grand (stated GCWR of 7200) to beef it up enough to do the job, but its like polishing a turd. It will always be a turd.

does the Audi have a tow/haul button?? may keep the trans from getting hot. a trans temp gauge would be cheap insurance. a trans shift kit would be better, if it didn't void your warranty.

I am sure the Audi worked fine......... and maybe it is comparable to a 1/2 ton pick up....... but wait until you have to put brakes and tires on it..... then everyone who has one of those wines "I only go 20 thousand miles out of my tires and I need brake and new rotors why so quick. "Yes they brake awesome because they come with super aggressive tires and brake pads...... I will just leave that there to sink in

Yeah these threads are hilarious. I'm sure the Audi does just fine for what the owner needs...

BUT, I guarantee I'll get more towing miles out of my 2500 Cummins, and be a LOT safer doing so! And trust me (and I have stated this on many threads just like this), if you ever do (God forbid) get into a situation and end up getting somebody hurt, you can bet both your insurance and the insurance/lawyer of the injured will look at whether or not you were towing over capacity. AND they will check EVERY component of the towing system.

To make a long story short, a friend of mine is no longer with us because somebody decided to tow overweight. He lost in court because even though the "towing capacity" of his vehicle was greater than that of what he was towing, he failed to read the fine print, that the stated towing capacity was from a 5th wheel set up, and that when towing from the rear hitch, to reach that max tow capacity a weight distribution hitch was required. When he had to break suddenly, he didn't have enough weight on the front tires (the rear was weighted down from the trailer, alleviating the front weight) therefore had no traction and ended up running into the back of my friend, up over the trunk and through the cab of the car...killing him. That driver is now in prison for 15 years for vehicular manslaughter.

Just food for thought. Tow safely!

Any details on this case? Was the driver doing anything else that was deemed negligent?

:d:d:d

No one is ever going to admit that their precious tow vehicle doesn't tow great. You can easily spot these guys and their sensitivity by comments like "can't even tell it's back there". A sure indicator that you can absolutely tell that it's back there.

I once towed my Xstar with a Ridgeline. Yay. I did it. But long term it's not the best idea. The soccer mom vehicles aren't as safe, and despite the factory tow specs, you'll be lucky if your transmission survives.

I have to agree with the "can't even tell it's back there" comment. Maybe at 55 on a flat piece of road but what about when you leave a stoplight or get on that merge ramp to get on the highway? Really? Your 0-60 time is identical loaded and unloaded? I have a diesel truck and yes, it is definitely comfortable on the highway towing the boat and my steering is still nice and light and the reason I know it's back there is because the truck rides better with the boat than without. :D

My F250 rides better with the boat as well. Only way I know it's back there is because the suspension rides smoother. Same could not be said for my F150, I could tell the boat was back there when in park

You nailed that one. I have a 2014 4X4 long bed 3/4 ton Ram CTD. For towing, it can't get much better than that, but I can still definitely tell when I'm towing so whenever I read someone saying they can't tell they're towing, I immediately disregard everything they say.

Does Audi require a weight distributing hitch above certain trailer weight?

I think as an adverse effect to being overweight, he also got charged with following too closely. But the main charges that stuck him were towing overweight. He didn't really fight it much because even he said when he slammed his brakes and tried to steer off the road, the truck just kept going straight.

I'm not 100% sure, I haven't found any media from them with the "fine print" part to describe the towing ratings for the Audi. I would assume that however considering most trucks are limited to 5-7000 lbs when towing from the rear mounted hitch. I wouldn't see the Audi having a beefier setup than a 1/2 ton pickup! Not to mention, there is a certain wheel base to trailer length ratio that also comes into effect when towing, and I feel the Audi is under that ratio when towing any boat over 22' in length....just a guess.

And to the most recent comments....I FULLY agree! I tow with a 3/4 ton Cummins and I can still tell the boat is back there, especially when braking to a stop. If you "can't even feel it back there"...then you sir (or madam) need to get off the road and quit towing forever!

Rick, apparently people (some) think the myth is not busted. Perhaps it has little to do with how well something tows a boat and more about how people feel about trucks. I notice that nobody has made any comments about a 20' wheelbase 18,000# Peterbuilt towing 100' of trailers that weigh 7X what the tow vehicle does. Perhaps that's because some vehicles tow better than others.
Oh, wait, that was what the original post was talking about. Some vehicles can tow a boat easily, and as a bonus be useful as a normal vehicle. ;)

He didn't fight it? When prison time was involved? Vehicular manslaughter is a felony where you live?

Not exactly an apples to apples comparison. A perterbilt is designed only for towing, every aspect of the vehicle is built with the idea of towing large loads and it's not done from a bumper hitch.

An audi is built with light towing as a side note, not it's primary function. Nothing in this vehicle is built with the idea that it will be used as a primary tow vehicle. That kind of use can be dangerous and significantly shortens the life span of many of the vehicles components.

You can use a butter knife to un screw a screw and it will work, to some degree, but a screw driver works much better. Use the right tool for the job to avoid problems.

The myth isn't busted, you can do all sorts of stupid things and get a way with them for a while, doesn't make it a good idea nor safe.

I'm willing to bet that the Audi can stop with the boat faster than a Peterbuilt can with a full load. This is why you NEVER cut in front of a tractor trailer closely. Even truck drivers will tell you that it is monumentally stupid. THEY CANNOT STOP AS FAST AS A CAR. So, really comes down to is the driver being attentive, NOT following closely to other vehicles and practicing conservative driving.

If you do all of that, you will have no issues towing near (or slightly above) the limit of MOST vehicles. YMMV, so practice caution as you start towing large trailers with an unfamiliar vehicle.

FWIW, I just got back from towing my A20 more than 2 hours with my Honda Pilot. Zero issues. Stops great, NEVER sways and has enough power to not hunt gears the entire time. Very impressed.

Really, you think stopping 40 tons would be harder than stopping 2-3 tons, no matter what the tow vehicle. Did you major in physics, or are you just just a natural savant??

Like I said you get away with using the wrong tool for a while, but it will catch up to you in one way or another.

We need more government and/or insurance regulation.

New business opportunity...Just purchased a boat? Here at Wakeworld, we'll tell you which vehicles are approved to tow your boat.

You weren't pulling the boat with a Wakeworld approved tow vehicle...insurance claim denied!

Insurance companies will pay us, as will the diesel truck manufacturers. This is a no-brainer...Who's in?

^this. There has to more to the story than a guy not reading the "fine print" on towing a boat. Its awful what happened to your friend but it doesn't seem criminal to me(especially 15 years worth)

You can attack me all you want, but the truth of the matter is that stopping distances for all vehicles on public roads are WIDELY varied, and many vehicles on the road have much worse stopping distances than OP or myself. That was the point.

I'm not using the wrong tool at all. My vehicle is rated to tow a trailer and includes provisions for towing trailers. I might be slightly over capacity, but it's a small margin that I'm comfortable with.

I'm not meaning to attack, I just found the original comment a little absurd. If you take the two vehicles towing the same load, let's say a boat. The peterbuilt would stop very close to its empty stopping range, if not right at it, where the audi will not be close when pushed to the maximum towing capacity or over(ie towing a boat). You increase that load to close to the peterbuilts maximum you will have the same issue with the peterbuilt, but that load is so far out of the range of the audi that it's not even worth mentioning.

When you push a vehicles towing capacity you have consequences and have to make concessions. Most of the time those concessions are shortening the life span of the vehicle, if you're unlucky those concessions are being able to operate safely in emergency situations.

Like I said use the wrong tooll all you want, just don't try and sell it as not having consequences or a good idea.

Braking is a function of 1) tires and 2) brakes. For brakes it has 14.8" rotors in the front and 13.8" in the rear. A Ford F250 by comparison has 14.29" front and rear. We'll call that one a wash. For tires, the Audi comes with 285/40 or 285/45 on a 20" in either an all season or a summer tire. If it's the Summer tire, that's going to offer superior braking and handling over anything that the Ford comes with but the tires available on the F250 are a 275/65/20. I would give the handling/braking edge for the tires to the Audi but overall towing capacity to the Ford there.

You're nuts if you think the Audi will compare at all to any 3/4 ton or above truck for towing. 1/2 ton maybe but the larger diesel with longer wheel base is going to destroy it.

Isn't the foreign econobox Audi a unibody? Nice a flexy, weak, etc.? If you can afford a $100k boat and tow more than twice a year or down the street to the ramp then you can afford a $5k truck to tow it safely. $5k is a pretty decent truck too, realistically you can do it for about a grand for a cheap and safe 2wd truck. If you have a SN2001 then sure the Audi is fine, but I wouldn't want to be towing 7k with it through any traffic or distance.

No idea where all the comments about diesel are coming from, my gas truck has way more torque than my diesel truck and I used to tow safely when my gas truck had a small block which was worse than the diesel. A mountain of torque to accelerate a load at a quick rate is nice, but they all have the same frame, suspension, and brakes (at least Ford does).

OOOORRRRRR Perhaps that's because they are towing from a 5th wheel kingpin....NOT the rear bumper of a vehicle. The wheel base to trailer length ratio doesn't apply when the weight of the trailer is set above or in front of the rear wheels and NOT behind them

WRONG! It also comes down to how much weight is still on those FRONT tires since those are your braking tires! If the vehicles rear suspension is too soft for the load, when you go to brake, the forward momentum of the trailer will have an added tongue weight effect which will push down on the back, adversely lifting the front. Most trucks (not all as many these days have softer suspension for a smoother ride) have a stiffer rear suspension. I've had this happen to me in a Ram 1500 and that alone was enough for me to upgrade to a 2500. The added power and torque from the diesel was a bonus! I'm not saying an Audi can't do the job...but like others have stated, it is pushing the limits.

Ram's and Chevy's do too. And no, the diesel isn't necessary. But it sure is nice. I personally tow my boat every time I go to the lake. It's only about 7 miles, but 3 miles of that is up a 3% grade just as soon as I get on the interstate. My old Hemi would stay tach'd at around 4500 rpms for the entire grade! The diesel will take it just as easy as the Hemi would unloaded! Diesel is nice! And I don't know of any newer gas vehicles that have the torque numbers that these newer diesels have! Plus, when it comes to towing, you'll get 3 times the life out of a diesel (if you take care of it properly).

I'm not trying to sound like a broken record, or put anybody down for their choice in tow vehicle. I personally think the OP's set up looks awesome!! I just hope that anybody that is towing with a vehicle like that, realizes that they are at, or near, or above max capacity and that they use extreme caution when towing a load such as that, not just for themselves but for the safety of others. EVERYBODY should use extra caution when towing. I just hate to see people get cocky and be all "look what I can do", and end up getting somebody hurt. It's like a small guy going to the gym who tries to lift like the bigger guys because of his ego, sure he can do a couple reps, but eventually he'll throw his back out!

Don't forget that these diesels in tow mode are programmed to down shift correctly, often have exhaust brakes and hill decent options, not to mention trailer sway prevention. Saying braking is just tires and and disks is way over simplifying it. There is no way in hell that audi out brakes my F250 when towing.

On top of that not the smartest thing in the world to post this thread. If he does cause an accident it can be used against him in court to show negligence

this seems like a pretty easy argument to put to rest... there are plenty people who tow with mid-size SUVS and of course, there are plenty who tow with 3/4 ton trucks... Why not have a couple of these people meet up, get a orange construction cone, set the cruise at 60 and see who stops in the shortest distance with the same boat/trailer behind the vehicle. Sounds pretty easy... My guess is that they will be pretty damn close.

I think the concern here is emergency braking and not fully controlled braking. I feel that when you do emergency braking the tongue is gonna push on your hitch like crazy before any surge brake takes effect. Even a millisecond or half a second of extreme push on your hitch can make your car/truck not leveled at all during this time. At the same time your car/truck will bend forward. To conclude, your car/truck might be in a state that has not been designed for.

I believe the truck will be more leveled during this emergency braking than a car/SUV. Did you try an emergency braking with your Q7, that is slam the break at 60 mph. I DO NOT ADVISE YOU TO DO SO AS YOU MIGHT DIE TRYING.

The Q7 has a nearly 5,000 lb curb weight, which is nearly the same as an f150( based on my quick google search). So it's not gonna get pushed around that badly during braking.

It might not sit super level, but front leveled trucks don't sit level either(with a trailer).