Moomba dealers claim about build quality of axis
 

I saw this posted at the Knoxville boat show. Some of the stuff I know looks like opinions and versions of the truth to make moomba look better, but I was curious if the structural stuff is true.

All of it sounds pretty true from what I have seen. What you really have to ask though is how many Axis's have had specific failures due to the difference in construction

There is more than one way to skin a cat and just because Skiers choice think their way is better , it doesn't mean its necessarily true.

I haven't heard of vary many broken free engines, cracked stringers or separated hulls myself, amend a lot of those construction methods are the same on the Malibu line. Several years of building that way with a life time hull warranty........I would assume it isn't to prone to failures given those facts..

Rotate the pic b4 posting

I would say you have some facts about construction followed by some opinions on whats best.

I've not heard of any problems with tracking fins, motor mounts or the manner in which the top deck attaches. What's funny is that the a24 top deck attaches with a shoebox fit. Goes to show how much research went into this.

I guess when you can't brag about your wake, you have to nit pick.

I wonder if that is a Skiers Choice document or something put together by the dealer. I'm guessing likely the dealer as I believe if put together by the marketing team of a manufacturer it wouldn't just focus on one other brand. Guessing the local competition is Axis in the Knoxville area!!

Lol. Now if only that great quality translated to a great wake

I sold my Moomba XLV (discontinued model) for 3 reasons: the cracking sound it made in chop, the wake sucked because it was far too sensitive side to side, and the tower rattle and sway. I'm waiting for my 2nd Axis to come in and I'm very satisfied with Axis. I too have not heard of any structural complaints on Axis hulls or tracking fin issues. I think this is a pretty sad attempt at one dealer, not Moomba, trying to do what it can to better themselves in the "price point" market. Back when the was a vapor lock issue with Moomba boats, prior to redesigning the fuel pump location, Moomba had a fix but it was at the customer's expense.

Moomba dealers claim about build quality of axis
 

They all have play books for their dealers to use to discredit the other brand. This is just part if the game. As stated, I've never heard of a problem resulting from the above points.

Also, LOL @ moomba thinking that the wake plate is better than the wedge. Axis wakes speak for themselves and the pnp system in the axis is phenomenal.

I'd never own an axis or a moomba.
Problem solved.


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I would have to say that is something put together by a dealer not distributed by Mooomba to its dealers.

I think all those points are worth noting. It explains some differences in build without necessarily "bashing". It explains what the differences mean in some cases. However as mentioned there is more than one way to build something and it doesn't mean the other way sucks or is crap. Obviously thei are trying to sell Moomba but the customer can decide if they still think that makes Moomba a better choice. Me personally I can find arguments on both side of the fence for almost any of those points made to swing it for Moomba or for Axis. Depends on what your trying to sell. Either way all fact and differences in build.

...

LOL @ #2. After hitting a log and ripping the thru-bolted tracking fin on my VLX (and the amazing amount of work it is to replace it); I converted my front fit to a lag-bolt design. I'm so glad I did, as I ripped that one off a month later (it was a bad 30 days). The difference in labor to fix one vs. the other is amazing. What is more amazing is none of these boat manufacturers have actually come up with a break-away tracking fin.

Most people don't run their boats and watch for shallow depths. No need for a break away fin.

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Lol @ Conner...... 05 Sanger is way more badass :D

Moomba dealers claim about build quality of axis
 

Sanger wasn't my choice either. I bought on price, not that I preferred a sanger..
unlike you guys, I didn't pay 60k for my boat.

Let me re phrase my statement, I wouldn't buy an axis unless I walked with it for 18k, with 100hrs on it, and thousands in upgrades already done


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I am a nautique guy myself but don't really have loyalty to one brand over another. I think all boats have their pros and cons. That being said...
the post above me has to be one of the most idiotic I've seen in a while.

But if I were in the market for a new boat, in the price range of a moomba or axis, I would most likely still buy a v237 Sanger. I don't give a **** about the wake, but I feel quality and boat wise, the Sanger is a better dollar for dollar return for your money


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I was at the boat show on Friday night. I noticed the sign. The funny thing I noticed, the Moomba and Axis displays were pretty close to one another. They had that sign facing the Axis boats. Anyone walking from Malibu/Axis to Moomba /Supra would not miss that thing.

Mark


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Any dealer or manufacturer that sells their product based upon the perceived shortcomings of another, is just pathetic. I would be more inclined to go with an axis over a moomba, based on this ad. I cant imagine skiers choice approved this. Anytime a dealer bashes another, just tells me you don't have enough confidence in your own product.

At your shows, were Malibu and axis together? Our show Malibu and axis were at different sides of the building.
And supra had only 1 SA, and 1 SC, and 1 moomba tucked off in the corner.


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If I'm not mistaken, axis uses the floating wedge so you can't adjust it while a wake plate you can.

If all the other points are True, what is wrong with the dealer having a sign showing these things? If none of them are lies, than it just lets the consumer be more informed about what they can't see.

I mean the truth is neither boat is just going to fall apart or have the hull seperate. Both boats have wakes that are more than enough for 90% of the population. Both have unique styling and heck, they even use the same brand of motors.

I had a Moomba and I put 400 hours on it and the boat was flawless. I loved it and the resale on it was fantastic too. If I was looking at new entry level boats, these are the two brands I'd look at.

Also Chattawake pointed out that the new A24 now uses the shoebox construction. I wonder if Axis made this change because it's better way of building a boat. It's either that or they did it because it's cheaper and if it is cheaper than why wouldn't they have done this in the first place?

The fact that he has 9 batteries and he had make sure everyone knew he was "24 years old" in his profile is way more badass.

I didn't do that. Wakeworld does that when you enter your birthdate at sign up


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I never hit ground...not even close. Debris in the water.

Moomba is the low end of Skiers Choice Axis is the low end of Malibu . Both are price point boats although Axis is getting up there in price. Both boats as well as Sanger are noted for being a good boat for the money. None of them are know for their build quality? Compromises have to be made to hold the price . For Moomba to pick on Axis is laughable .

You don't care about wake quality? That's confusing. Maybe you shouldn't be jumping into a discussion about comparing wake boats? Just my thought.

Pound on the side of the HULLS lol they sound and feel equally built.

"I don't give a **** about the wake."

Said, no wakeboarder ever..

Interesting thread. I am kind of surprised they would put that up for everybody to see at a boat show. I am not surprised in the least that the comparison sheet exists. If I was a boat manufacturer/manufacturer rep I would want my dealers to know exactly what is "better" on my boats than the competition. Personally I would hope and urge the dealers to bring these up in conversation more as positives in my brand rather than "inferiority" in the competition.

As for the trim tab vs wedge argument I think both can be spun to be a positive but believe the trim tab to have more positives than the wedge and the positives probably appeal more to the "average" buyer. The wedge has basically one advantage. It helps create a bigger wake without having to add ballast. The trim tab has many. It helps the rough water ride by keeping the bow down, it helps efficiency by allowing you to get on plan quicker, it allows you to adjust the shape of the wakeboard and wakesurf wakes, etc... I truly believe that wakeworld is a very poor sample of the "average" wakeboard boat buyer. If you took all your opinions from wakeworld you would assume that wake is by far and away the most important characteristic of a wakeboard boat. I believe that if you actually took a sample of all the people who bought wakeboard boats in the last few years wake might be 2nd, 3rd, 4th or even lower on why people choose a certain boat. The truth is, that the average buyer is probably a middle aged family looking to have a boat they can surf some, wakeboard some, pull a tube and hang out on. Not a 25 year old that needs to have the perfect wake.

Could not agree more!!

Where did this JMorlan guy come from. C'Mon Man Really the statements you've made on this thread alone just discredited anything you have or will say on this forum. Pathetic....

Moomba dealers claim about build quality of axis
 

I guess I am the guy polarbill described.
The average boat owner. I surf sometimes, rarely wakeboard, and have a wetsounds setup for the party cove.
The wake is one of the last things I really consider when I purchase a boat.
1. Vdrive
2. Exterior appearance
3. Do I like the interior - this rules out mb and axis btw
4. Roominess and storage in interior
5. Does or can it surf well
6. Price
And lastly probably 7. At how's the wake brah


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J.mo

I'm pretty sure mb has more seating in their 21' (roomy) than a Sanger, you obviously haven't been in a lot of MBs based on your interior statements, mb also offers more options factory than your beloved Sanger...I priced both this go around and mb smoked Sanger. Deeper v, zero off offered in all models standard, way more ballast, fills quicker, more freeboard and the new f22 has a taller interior, so that's no longer a downside to mb, there are also a lot of little things in an mb fit and finish wise that often aren't even mentioned, like the "tomcat" lettering in to rub rail on the bow' the quality of the racks, the nice standard ptm mirror arm. I am in no way bashing Sanger...I was willing to get any boat if it met all the requirements including price. I like sanger's layout of the interior and I'm pretty sure those boats have 46 cup holders which I like...but...mb smoked the ltz 23 I was looking at in the $$ department. Sangers are great boats but I would contest the interior quality over mb any day, also not a fan of the tower or the new graphics, the old English letters were a bit too so cal for my taste. It's been a while since I've seen a mb vs sanger koolaid drink off ha ha...

LMAO, so you're saying you're a poorer version of the people new MC/tige/Malibu/!nautiques/ supra dealers sling most of their boats to in order to turn a quick buck. I

Moomba dealers claim about build quality of axis
 

Never said I adore this boat or sanger lol.
I just said that I prefer the interior over axis and moomba. They just look and feel cheap.
In fact, I wasn't looking for a sanger, had really never considered one. Heck I wasn't even looking for a boat when I bought this thing.
I was drinking a beer in a pool in Florida, across the country when I got a phone call and the opportunity came about, and for the price I said hell why not. So I had the guy take the boat to my bank, had them write a check for me and hold the title until I got home. It met the criteria listed above, so now here we are.



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Thats odd last time you told the story you worked the deal at a gas station.

Moomba dealers claim about build quality of axis
 

Yeah. The guy came in and asked if I wanted to buy it.
Said sure I'll pay you x dollars for said watercraft. He told me to piss off. I threw my number out and the seller disagreed.
A week later said seller called me in Florida, and I bought the boat for even less

I was never in the market, on craigslist, or making contact with sellers for this boat or any boat. Had it not been for the deal that was presented to me, guarantee I wouldn't have had this sanger, or probably any vdrive lol.
What I'm getting at, is I'm not some sanger die hard fan, or brand loyal at all in fact.
BUT MB, moomba, and axis would never be on my buy list.

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I guess so


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Guys don't give him such a hard time. He is a hard core tuber 90% of the time and surfs the other 10%. He meant to join tubeworld but ended up here accidentally.

Moomba dealers claim about build quality of axis
 

I don't own a tube or a wakeboard. And I borrow a surfboard when we shred the gnar.
How that for you. And I'm 100% serious.

But I do have rev10's, plenty of cup holders, and the good ol in boat cooler. Good enough for me to have a great time.
I don't need 4500lb of ballast and the sickest stick to rip on to enjoy the water brah

I use my anchor more than I use my ballast LMAO


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Lon's son???

I think he's jet rangers twin separated at birth.. Who says brah anyway?

Has anyone ever shredded the gnar on a surfboard?

I thought you guys say brah and bro when you shred on your sticks
thought that's your lingo when your boats are "slumped" chillin with your bros


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J"the Wally"morlan!

Stop.....Wally Time!(enter mc hammer beat)

Moomba dealers claim about build quality of axis
 

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d5xsYrKP9LU

Can I get a tow! I got my stick!
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And remember Lonmorlan has zero hours on his new Wetsounds system when he's jumping on every stereo thread telling us it's the best ever, brah. What's next weighting and riding tips?

Glad my dealer has Moomba, Supra, Axis, Malibu, and Nautique. Cuts those sales tactics out quick. I'm also glad they bring a ton of boats and manufacture's reps to the boat show.

I have probably 20 now on the stereo. Minus the 808's. Those have yet to be heard in the actual marine environment.
I'll ask once more since you bring this up often.
How many hours do you need to listen to a stereo before you decide whether you like it or not?
Couple years of shredding the sticks at 80ft?


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Bro your stereo is gnar bro! Hey bro, bros know bout da burn bro! Ya feel da burn bro? Feel the burn!

Mad props for your bro's sick Hoochie glide bro. Super sick bro.
Stay away from the figley's and burnt toast.
I read the mag, I know what's up


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Just let us know when you can clear the wake with no ballast at 90ft. Then, and only then, will we listen.

We need a "like" button David! :D

"I don't wakeboard ever!"

Says the guy who's boat has a Hyperlite sticker on the back and Ronix WAKEBOARDS pole guide covers

Also, I believe the hip lingo you are referring to is that of wakeboard industry legend "Da Moose," who maintains that the interior in his van is better quality than Axis, Moomba and Sanger combined

well in 5 months of riding i put 120 hrs on my a22 and that time it was loaded with 5000lbs plus people. and it held together just fine. and i couldnt be happier. i bought my axis over the moomba for 2 reason and thats cause i think the wave was better and moombas look like ****.

Someone please delete this thread for we are all dumber for have read JMo's comments. Thx

I don't think structural build quality issues like this would present problems in the first couple years. The real test will be in 10 to 15 years how these boats are holding up. If they begin having structural failures the resale value will tank.

I'm pretty sure Malibu knows how to build boats. I would be very surprised if they had any structural issues that plagued the whole product line. You will always have those exceptions but nothing more than that.

If you dont wakeboard and only go to the cove to party and show off your cool stereo why not buy a pontoon boat and get the hell out a here

^exactly!! Freakin power turn wally!

Probably wake surfs in the glass too!

shoulda bought a sun tracker with some lawn chairs and turf grass

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uI7Ghu1FpnQ



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This thread has really gone over well. JMorlan, you are doing your best to egg people on. I don't really get what you are talking about with the interior of the MB vs Sanger. I don't know how they stack up on 10 year old boats but the vinyl quality and detail is pretty dang good on the current series of MBs. In my opinion it is right up there with the other top level boats. What exactly did you not like about their interior? I don't know if it is because you are egging them on or what but a lot of people posting on this thread sure seem to think down on the "wally" or what I would like to call the average buyer even though they are the ones that keep these boat companies in business. We get lots of great brands and models to choose from because of them. It isn't like you even have to wakeboard to own a wakeboard boat. I think there are many reasons they are a better choice than an I/O even if you never step foot on a wakeboard.

in case you didnt get the memo, J-Mo us WakeWorld's court jester :p That jingle jingle sound you hear is your chain being yanked ;)

I know, I know....

He's a top notch troll!!!! No big deal. I will take Jet Ranger over him any day.

Moomba dealers claim about build quality of axis
 

Clearly you had no clue what slumping was a few weeks ago when you dropped that sick pic of your ride trailered in the slumping Sangers thread. How's the stereo sound?

I take it you didn't catch my humor at your lingo Bro


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I picked the wrong day to lurk WW.

I think spring/summer can't come soon enough for most of you! :)

It's sneaky and tasteless tactic by this dealer and it works sometimes with customers that don't know that much about ski boats. Many Axis and Moomba shoppers are first time buyers. As mentioned in previous posts by some of the guys on this forum, there are other customers that are not fooled by the non-sense.

I thought it would be fun to go line by line to get the truth.

#1. 2 fins standard is really about perceived value but the customer is paying for the second fin. It isn’t like it’s thrown in for free. On Axis, if you do not want a little extra turning performance, you do not have to buy the second fin.
#2. Through bolted vs. threaded fins - it's interesting to me how this dealer claims through bolting is better for fins but not the engine mounts (which are lag bolts on a Moomba). There are a few advantages to the way Axis fins are installed. First, serviceability is better since it will not be a 2 man job at the dealership. Secondly, Axis fins are fastened through the hull into long carbon fiber pad that improves strength and displacement of stress. Have you priced carbon fiber lately? It isn't "cheap" or weak. Thirdly, if someone were unfortunate enough to hit a fin hard enough to knock it off (and it’s VERY rare), I would rather lose the fin vs major damage to the hull.
#3. Shoebox fit vs. flange fit - The dealer didn't do their homework because half of the Axis lineup is now a shoebox fit. The flange fit is fastened using the same methacrylate adhesive that is used to bond the stringers to the hull. It's not coming loose and pounding the side of the hull will tell you absolutely nothing about the difference in these two methods. Maybe manufacturing consistency is driving Axis to move toward a shoebox fit.
#4. Foam filled floors - This is true but look at what the customer's expectations are today. Maximum storage and maximum ballast. Moomba only in recent models has been offering subfloor ballast. Axis could have went the route of offering foam filled floors with bags on top. Axis is focused on value for the customer. Would you rather have foam in the floor or ballast with deep storage?
#5. Engine mount bolts - I don't believe either company has had a problem with engine movement even though Axis is through bolted and Moomba is lag bolted. So if I'm buying a Moomba, it better have more bolts.
#6. Stringer design - I'm not sure this helps Moomba really. Axis uses the stringers to route wires, ballast hoses, etc to keep the bilge area clean. The holes do not hurt the integrity of the stringers at all. It works similar to holes cut in an elephant truss floor joist in a house.
#7. Snap on rub rail - covered this in #3
#8. Family owned - Axis may not be family owned but it is family built by people that take pride in building the best tow boats on the planet. Also, by being a part of a larger company like Malibu, Axis is able to utilize more resources that provide extensive internal quality systems, supplier quality improvement systems, buying power and engineering/design horsepower.
#9. Wedge - The wedge is an option for Axis where the wake plate is standard for Moomba because it has to have extra lift to get on plain when loaded down. Axis running surfaces do not require a plate or hook device but the wedge is only a bonus for those that like the shape and extra simulated ballast that the wedge provides.
#10. Just to added one for the dealer. How are they selling the Manual surf system vs surf gate? - I would rather flip a switch.

Let me say first that I am a fan of the new styling on the Moomba line. They are very appealing!

However the surf system on the Moomba (FLO as I think its called) looks like my 10 yr old designed it. It's horrendous and looks unfinished.

Greg Miller
Are you stating fact or just opinion? Moomas cost less than Axis . I think that is where many sales are coming from. Simple designs without a lot of electronics to go wrong. Things I like about the flow system are,1- totally bulletproof no servos , switches or computers needed.2- It only effects the water flow when its engaged other wise you don't even know its there. The surf gates look hideous all the time and cost 3 times more. I think both boats will hold up like any entry level boat . I don't think the structure of the hulls will be the problem more like vinyl ,fasteners, plastic components ,hinges,windshields and over all soundness (squeaks and rattles) will be more common issues as years go by.

I am support of a lower price surf system. Let freedom of choice determine it's success.

I see this as a compliment to Axis. They are the standard for which Skiers Choice is measuring themselves against.

My competitors do this same desperate move when they know they are losing to me. When they have nothing left to sell and only one way to tip the scale.

Have you seen a boat with the flow system? It's terrible looking. Oh, you know it's there. How it works I can't tell you, but aesthetically it is extremely inferior to the Surf Gate.

I don't see this as underhanded or unethical sales tactics at all. Now it would be if these were lies about the other product but as a consumer I expect salesmen to a certain extent to be experts on the products they sale and to a degree if they are a good sales person they will know their competitions product even better. I appreciate learning the little things that this dealer showed.


Now from being in both boat brands for over all feel of cheapness I'd have to say the axis definitely felt like the Econo box version of the 2 boats. Not by much but it just does.


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Umm. Well, I think it has been demonstrated that some of the information contained in the promo material was misleading and incorrect, or, in other words, a lie: e.g. the shoebox vs. sandwich hull mating and the rubrail construction for the boats in the axis line. Half of Axis' line uses a shoebox mating and the same type of rubrail that Moomba uses.

I've always wondered why Axis doesn't offer a stainless rub rail and only has the cheap looking plastic rub rails. It can't be that more expensive. I expect all the WW Axis owners will chime in on why plastic is better :)

I own a 07 Moomba LSV and run it hard and usually heavy. I bought the boat knowing it was "price point" boat. I have ridden an Axis and liked the wake a lot, But I am not crazy about the looks of the Axis. There are a few things I dislike about my boat and it has its share of squeeks and rattles. But I came into it knowing it was a cheaper version/lower line boat. I think ppl that try and compare a Moomba to the high doller boats are silly. Again just my .02 cents

My bigger concern is running into J " Lon" Morlan this summer around my area power turning and surfing in the butter!!!!
joking.....kind of!!!!!