05 xlv wont start
 

im pretty frustrated, the last two summers have been the same but with a different boat. just got this 05 xlv. my first trip out the gas gauge fell out, but the boat ran good. my second trip, yesterday,the boat ran for a few hours then wouldn't start it just cranks but wont fire, it ran fine up until that point, we had to be towed back to the dock. I read the manual, tried the throttle forward , back, key on ect thing. ive been on the internet for hours now trying to figure out what to try to get it running. im not much of a mechanic. I did find the fuel filter and gas runs freely through it. is there anything else you guys can think if for a mechanically challenge guy to do before I try to find someone to work on it. usually the few shops we have around here are two plus months out so the season will be over before I can get it in so any advice would be appreciated. I don't smell gas even when the throttle is all the way forward, it just cranks but wont fire. I was going to put starter fluid into the air cleaner but was afraid it might blow something up. thanks

could be your starter or your battery. the teeth on the starter could be worn and not catching. Could also not be getting enough power to spin as fast as is needed to start the boat.

We'll start here: Does your boat have a kill switch? If yes, check it to make sure it's working and is not missing the lanyard. If no, has it been pretty humid, hot lately while you've been out. Were you running your blower and it still won't start? If you pull the hatch up and let it breathe for like an hour, will it start back up and run? If so, you're more than likely experiencing vapor lock in your fuel system. If it still won't run, have you tried spraying starting fluid in it to see if it is fuel or electrical related. If it starts its fuel related, if it doesn't, it's electrical related. If it's electrical related, it could be a bad coil or a bad cap and rotor on the distributor.

I made sure the lanyard was on the kill switch, even pulled it off and put it back on a few times. it was about 80 yesterday when I shut it off but this morning it was 57 and it still wont start. ill spray starting fluid in, do I spray it into the carb and how much do I put it. I have a portable jump starter will it hurt anything if I hook it up to the battery to make sure there is enough juice?

Just pull the air breather off. Usually a 7/16 nut or bolt right in the middle. Then on your shifter, put it in neutral but give it wide open throttle. Now go back to the motor and just spray 2 squirts about 1 second each. Then go back and try to start it. If it does start immediately pull back the throttle so that it's not wide open. If you're doing this on the trailer, with no water hose hooked up or not in the water, if it starts on starting fluid, immediately turn the key off so that you don't leave it running and burn your impeller up. If in water or on hose, let it run for a little bit and then try killing int and restarting a couple times. This will give you a direction to go whether it starts or not.

Your jumper pack won't be necessary if you've got a good charged battery on the boat. When you turn the key to the on position without motor the motor running, look and see how many volts you have on your volt gauge. If it is less than 12v it could be the reason the engine will not fire. It its 11.5v+ it still should be good, if it's lower, you need to charge your battery. Also, if it still will not start on starting fluid, put the shifter and everything back to neutral, and try to start the boat and watch the colt gauge and see how far it drops while cranking the engine over. It its like 9v or less and you've got 12v+ with no load on the battery, your battery is probably old and needs a new one, which would explain why it won't start. The coil can't get 12v while trying to fire, and therefore won't start.

Can you hear your fuel pump come on to pressurize the system? May be a stuck fuel pump relay?

I can hear the fuel pump come on and when I spray starting fluid into the carb it fires right up so I must be lack of fuel to the engine because it dies immediately. the volt meter reads 12 when I turn the key on and drops to just above 10 when cranking. I tested the fuses , that's about all I could think of to do,they were all good. I didn't find any loose wires under the dash. ill put a charger on the batter tonight and see if that makes a difference tomorrow. keep the ideas coming, thanks guys. there is a box on top of the engine with a dial on the bottom like a dimmer switch, what does that do?

Sounds like you need a fuel pump

Being yours is an 05, I would think it's EFI so most likely fuel pump then. When you turn the key on and the fuel pump runs for 3-4 seconds, is it making a loud noise or is it quiet?

Also, do you have a fuel/water separator in line with the fuel hose. If it does, it will look like an oil filter. I can't remember where and which filter Malibu has on them in that year.

the noise is pretty loud when I turn the key on, I don't know if it has a water separator, it does have a few thinks that look like an oil filter, would it say water separator on it? probably not I imagine, ill take some pictures and post them. is the fuel pump something I can order and change myself, who would i order it through does anyone have a picture of one? thanks.

My fuel pump made a lot of noise before going out too. The new one is rather quiet. You can hear it priming but not like it was before

Fuel pump and or vapor lock.

Is this the fuel pump

Yes that is the fuel pump. The only way to know for sure if it's the fuel pump is to hook a pressure gauge up to the shrader valve on the fuel rail to see if your seeing 40-60 psi both prior to starting the motor and after its already started. It could be vapor lock in the fuel rails too, but that should have resolved itself after the engine cooled down and the fuel quit boiling. Most likely it is the fuel pump.

Also if it's got a really loud whine to it while the pump is running that is usually a sign of them going south.

Sounds like vapor lock if it ran fine until you shut the boat off for a while. This is a very common problem for pre 2008 moombas and supras.

The other thing you might try just to see if it is vapor lock, is to take the cap off the shader valve on the fuel rail on top of the motor and take something with a point on it and press the middle of the shrader valve to bleed off any air that might be in there. Cover the shrader valve with a rag so the nothing splashes everywhere. Then once it's blead down, go back and and turn the key to the on position and let the fuel pump build up pressure again, then turn the key off and repeat a few more times. Then try starting the boat and see if it'll run.

Is one of these the shader valve I should loosen.where is the rail. Thanks.

It will be on top of the engine. It will look similar to this but not the same. There should be a cap that looks like one the one pictured. That is the one I am referring to. Those two lines will not need to be messed with unless the pump needs to be replaced.

ill go look right now, thanks

if its not vapor lock, do you think I could replace the fuel pump or is it a job for the shop? usually its a month or longer to get the shop to do it and id really like to get back on the water this summer.

I checked the Schrader valve there was defiantly pressure but it still wont start. this box is the only sound I hear now, it vibrates while making a clicking sound for about 5 seconds then shuts off. it has a dimmer style switch on the bottom of it. what does it do?

Just because gas came out of the rail doesn't mean it's got full pressure. You've got a fuel delivery issue if it starts with starting fluid but not while cranking. It's probably vapor locked - or if it was you could have burned up the fuel pump from running it dry of fuel.

Got to autozone or orielly's and check out their fuel pressure gauge.. It's free and you get your deposit back when returned. It screws onto that shrader valve and will indicate rail pressure.. we need to know that number... I'll look up the pressure it should be.. I think 60 psi but I'm not sure.. your just guessing if you don't know the exact pressure..

BTW, thats the Perfect Pass actuator and it's supposed to chug when it's first powered..

so my friend who is a mechanic came over and we spent about 3 hours working on it. he is going to bring his gauge over tomorrow but there really isn't any pressure, fuel quit coming out of the valve even when we were cranking it over. he said there was no power making it to the pump so we hooked up my portable power station to it and the motor on the pump ran but no fuel would come out of the Schrader valve so maybe we did burn it up. we tested all the fuses we could find, including the three in the one pack that's on the engine and they all tested good. is there another one for the fuel pump that's in the relay somewhere, we couldn't find a schematic for the engine anywhere. does anyone know if one of these is the relay for the pump.

he thinks there are two problems, the pump is bad and there is no power making it to the pump. he said he could replace the pump pretty easy but the lack of power to it is the problem he's the most worried about. should I still get a pressure reading?

Whether the fuel pump came on with the key turned to the on position was my next question. If it wasnt, if youve got a test light I was going to ask it you were getting 12v to it. Now as far as the fuel pump running goes. They come on for 3-4 seconds and build up pressure and go off with the key to the ON position NOT during the momentary START position. The pump will then go off and will not turn back on during that current cycle until it sees oil pressure (IE the motor running) then it will turn back on and run constantly. If you are turning the key on and then turning it to the momentary start position, it will not come on and build up pressure like it should. You just skipped that step. So with the key turned to the ON position, and not cranking the motor over, does the fuel pump come on?

Also, that picture of the servo you posted is for the perfect pass. It will come on for like 5 seconds and clicks. That is normal.

there is no noise now at all when I turn the key on, except after about 4 or 5 seconds a little buzzer goes off for a second then shuts off. use to I could hear something other than the buzzer and the perfect pass thing.

I'd replace the fuel pump relay switch. Every time my boat (a 99 star) has exhibited the symptoms you describe, it's been the fuel pump relay switch. I don't know if it's C, D, or E in the picture, so I'd replace them all. Any auto parts store will have them, and they're only like 15 bucks each. Also, a great diagnostic tool is a code reader. They only cost 50 bucks or so and are really helpful when troubleshooting problems. I went crazy for a summer trying to get my boat to start when it was hot, until I got a code reader and it gave me a code for a faulty engine coolant temperature sensor. If you replace the relay switches and still have a problem, a code reader will let you know if its a sensor somewhere that's messing things up.

Ok, so you and your friend are on the right track. I would check fuses and relays until I got 12v to the pump. Then see if it the pump still will not run correctly, then go order a new pump. If a relay is bad or corroded on the inside and is making intermittent contact, it would explain your situation and may not be the fuel pump at all.

where do you plug in the code reader, ill take my picture into the auto parts store today and buy three new relays. thanks guys.

how do the wires come out of the relay, i wouldn't think i would have to cut them and make the wire shorter.

The relays are like fuses, they should have a base that they sit in. On E D and C that little clip at the bottom needs to be pushed in and the whole wire base pulled straight down. I would look for the wires coming from the fuel pump to the fuse box or relay and replace just that one relay or fuse. You should be able to semi follow the wires from the pump to wherever they end up.

The relays will just unclip from the base. I'd take the old ones with you to the store, as each will have its circuit printed on it, and you can't see this info from the picture. If you can't find a store with the exact same relays (i.e., relays that will simply clip into your existing bases), you can purchase a different brand with the same circuit and just wire up the new bases, but this is obviously more work, and I'd definitely figure out which one was the relay for the fuel pump so I only had to wire in one new base instead of 3. With respect to the code reader, I use Rinda Technologies' CodeMate.

http://www.rinda.com/marine/marine.htm

If you have a MEFI 1 through MEFI 4 ECM, it will work for you. There's a plug that comes out of the ECM that you plug it into. It's a pretty awesome tool for 49 bucks. From the picture, it looks like your plug is in the lower right hand corner - the thing with the blue base.

Typically, those relays are all the same, you could swap them to further isolate the problem, don't know what the third one is (CDE), but one is a starter relay, one is a fuel pump relay, swap them, see if the problem follows!

well, I went down and got a relay then put it in every one C,D,E and nothing. there must be a relay or a fuse that im not finding because no power is getting to the fuel pump. I guess ill have to take it in. thanks anyway guys.

So trace out the wiring - these things aren't rocket science!

It sounds like a wiring issue if no power to the pump, but the pump runs off 12v booster... clean all plugs and connections? Trace wires? Grounds?

I bypassed the ignition this morning, basically hot wired it to see if that was the problem but the pump still didn't make any sounds. I was pretty sure it was an under the dash thing at first because when boulder boats put in the perfect pass they left the whole harness suspended by the gas gauge wires so when I hit a wave it ripped the gas gage out of the dash but it cant find anything loose or broken under there. except the gas gauge.

Man, I really thought it was going to be the relay. Before taking it in for service, unclip your ECM plugs (A and B in your picture) and clean the crap out of the connections with electrical cleaner (it comes in a can, like a can of spray paint, available at any auto parts store.) This has solved some problems for me in the past.

Try physically connecting the fuel pump to the battery. You should be able to wire some leads from the battery to the fuel pump, that way you can make sure it turns.

Or better yet you can also use an ohmmeter which you can connect one end to the positive side of fuel pump and then poke one of the wires coming out of the fuel pump relay. You'll have to keep cycling the ignition but this will tell you if your pump has power or not and help you work backwards to find the problem.

I hooked an external power source up to the pump and it ran. I was going to get a code reader but how do I figure out which one to get.

my mechanic friend did the ohmmeter a few days ago and couldn't get any reading. he says they have a relay tester where he works so he's going to test them even though I hooked a new one up to each one. is it possible I got the wrong one, it fit in all three bases fine.

Get the code reader asap before you spend more money. Plus you will have it for any future problems you might have.

It's possible to have a relay fit into the base but not be the correct relay. On the side of the relay there's a schematic showing the connections the relay makes. The replacement must have the same schematic as the original.

these are the only ports i can find on the motor, A has three fuses in it, B just looks like a junction and C is empty so is c the ecm port. or would it be under the dash. thanks guys.

i searched for ecm ports on a parts web site and on one of my previous pictures i have A,B,C,D,E on it.. a and b look like one of the ecm ports listed so could one of those be the it?

Couldn't get a reading on the ohmmeter? If he's reading volts and couldn't get a reading with the power on, check the lines prior to the relay. On the other hand you should be able to test the relays with the ohmmeter since they'll have a certain resistance across two poles and another will be normally open and there should be another that will be normally closed. It looks like some of them have the diagrams as to open/closed and resistance. This will check the relays since it sounds like the pump is working.

my friend came over with his meter this time and still couldn't get a reading on the fuel pump so power we sprayed starting fluid into the air cleaner and it fired right up again. frustrating. hooked an external power up to the pump and it worked and pressurized the system so I turned it over and it still wouldn't start. does anyone know where I can get a schematic for it. im still thinking we have a fuse or relay out but haven't found it yet.

There is not any plastic box on top of or on the back towards the trans that flips open and has a few fuses or relays in them?

I found a box that has 3 or 4 small yellow fuses in it. I tested them and they were good. ill retest them. I called skidim and ordered a code reader i told the guy my story ,he thought the whole ecm might be bad, I hope not, he said it was $1,400 part.

Ok i gotcha. If all the fuses are good as well as the relays, then the next thing in line is the ECM. So hopefully it is not that.

Also on the fuses, test both sides or pull them out and look to see if they are blown.

how hard is it to replace the ecm. is that a job for the shop or can I do it?

will the code reader tell me if its the ecm?

Unfortunately no on the ecm. The shop will have to fix that unless you can get ahold of one. If you've chased everything down and there's nothing left that you can check, I would go ahead and take it into a shop. It could be something as simple as reflashing the ecm or it could have went south all together. As far as a new ecm goes, I'm not 100% sure if it's a drop in part or had to be configured to your specific engine. At this point you've checked everything possible you can check so I wouldn't waste anymore time on it and let someone else with the proper tools figure it out. I'm sorry to say that. I really thought it was going to be a bad fuse or relay.

If you've already ordered or got ahold of a scanner, you can try running it and see if it's throwing any codes.

What ECM is in your boat? It looks like a mefi 3 or 4.

This manual contains a ton of good information.

https://www.bakesonline.com/images/M...EFI4manual.pdf

It'll tell you everything you need to know about the data connector and all the relays and sensors that can be bad and the symptoms thereof.

I'm still hung up on the fuel pump relay switch. When you turn the ignition key, can you hear the relay click? It should make an audible clicking noise, with the hatch open.

Bakes sells the MEFI 4 for a little less than $1K, programmed for individual engines. If you unbolt your ECM there should be a sticker on the underside with a part number. I don't know if you have the 3 or 4.

, I called skidim, they said my ecm is a 4. they also said to check the oil pressure switch so im going to try and find that tomorrow. does anyone know what one of them would cost. if its cheap I ll just replace it. I have a code reader coming in on Tuesday, im going to see what that says then take it in. thanks for all the help guys.

the boat place said it was the fuel pump the ecm and another switch they want 3300 to get it fixed. that seems a little steep to me. how does it sound to you guys.

I'd be suspicious. It's highly unlikely (but not impossible) that the fuel pump, relay and ECM would all quit at the same time unless somebody had been tinkering and made a real mess of something. My guess is the shop want to replace everything in one go, it saves them time and costs you money...

^^^ that's what it sounds like to me. I highly doubt it's all 3 of them but I don't know what they are seeing so I can't make a judgement there. The pump to me sounds fine. It seems to me like its upstream from the fuel pump. Either the switch you are referring to, or the ecm.

That seems high to me. That's probably about $1300 in parts, retail price, so they're charging you $2000 to install an ECM, relay, and fuel pump, which is crazy. Did you get a code reader? Did it have any trouble codes stored?

I'd bring it to a new shop for a second opinion. I'd really doubt it's the ECM. If the pump works when powered, then it's got to be wiring or the relay/a contactor somewheres... Trace out the wiring and check them out - seems you're missing a leg somewhere...

this turned out to be quite the ordeal, i wound up going into this guys shop three times the guy was rude every time actually yelling at me the last time so i went in and tried to pay him for the time he had into it, i got a raft of lies like there is no ecm port on a boat so they had to trace everything out to i couldn't take the boat because he had the engine all apart and a raft of other things. i wound up towing it home. so the short of it is it was the ecm, i called boulder boats and they sold me one at their cost and split it with me. i did a face time chat with their teck guy who walked me through diagnosing it, turns out my mechanic friend had walked me through the same process. it runs good now. thanks for all the help.

Glad you got it figured out. I'll never understand why the manufacturers put the ECM and the relays so close to the motor, where they're subjected to all that heat. I'm on my second ECM, and when it goes I'll probably relocate it to a better spot. It's just a ton of wires to mess with though.