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-   -   Epic mod thread (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=776294)

joesell 02-22-2010 4:15 PM

I have a huge list of mod's that I'm doing to the new boat. Not that it really needs to much done, they thought of almost everything. However, how is anything really yours unless you personalize it. So now that I figured out how to resize my pic's, I'll try to take pic's as I go. <BR> <BR>So here's the list so far, I'm sure I'll still add to it along the way. <BR> <BR>WS-420, Wetsounds EQ. This thing is sweet. I mounted it under the throttle. It turned out really nice, but now I took it back out to install an HSE. <BR> <BR>HSE, Also a sweet addition. It's going to be soooo nice to have a "Perfect Pass" for the stereo. <BR> <BR>2nd Heater, I have 2 little ones, and a girl that's got ice in her veins. I'm moving the heater outlet on the back drivers side, to the walk through area. My last boat was set-up like that, and it threw a ton of heat. I'm also installing a 2nd heater in the storage area under the stereo. That one will feed 2 vents that I'm installing in the dash next to the stereo, and a hot tube by the cup holders by the passengers feet. <BR> <BR>Trash hole, There was a big hole where the rear hot tube used to be, so I called heatercraft. There sending me, just the mounting flange for a hot tube. I'm going to install it, and tie a garbage bag to that. Hopefully it'll look nice, otherwise my buddy said he would make me one out of stainless. <BR> <BR>3rd Batt, That's going in the drivers side rear, by the soap pump. I want 2 batts for the stereo. <BR> <BR>3 Batt onboard charger, I'm mounting that on that rear deck behind the engine. I'm still looking for a thru hull adapter that I like. <BR> <BR>Glove box spring <BR> <BR>2, 1 farad capacitors, 1 for each amp. <BR> <BR>Trailer LED's, My trailer didn't come with LED's, That's not cool at all. <BR> <BR>Guide pole pads, I got these from Skyski. $40 with shipping. <BR> <BR>Boat Buddy, I cut some trailer bunk carpeting to cover it, but I couldn't get the glue to stick. So I'm still working on it. <BR> <BR>Dynamat, I covered the whole right side of the boat. It was pretty funny. After having the boat for about a week, my girl came home to find all the seatbacks, and panels torn out. The look on her face was priceless. She said, "you just can't leave anything alone, can you". She couldn't believe how soon I started to "modify" it. <BR> <BR>FAE, The boat is just too loud without one. <BR> <BR>Hydrofoil rack, I swapped out the drivers side rack for a Samson swivel foil rack. <BR> <BR>Surf/Wake rack, Swapped it out. <BR> <BR>Cooler seal, I found some thing foam for that. we'll see how that holds up. <BR> <BR>7-way plug, I changed out the plug on the trailer. Now I don't need an adapter for my truck. <BR> <BR>Heater blanket, Not really a mod, but pretty sweet just the same. It's one of those waterproof, fleece lined blankets you strap the hot tube into. I got it from Heatercraft. They gave me a deal, but it was still way overpriced. I think I might have my mom sew me a bigger one, now that I see how there made. <BR> <BR>I'm kicking around maybe making a filler seat for the front. My boys love to hang out up there. I don't know if it's going to happen though. <BR> <BR>I also want to figure out a way to get the cooler to drain out all the way. <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/776295.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/776296.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/776297.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/776298.jpg" alt="Upload">

h20king 02-22-2010 4:41 PM

love it I to believe it is not yours until you make it yours I am just finishing my build cant get pictures to load either but it is all posted on <a href="http://www.centurioncrew.com.If" target="_blank">www.centurioncrew.com.If</a> you add a second heater consider adding a pump to help feed them or there will not be much heat if any at idle

mhunter 02-22-2010 4:58 PM

Wow thats a lot of work on a boat that dosn't need much done. Good luck with your mods.

joesell 02-22-2010 6:08 PM

Harold, The guys at Heatercraft said I might need a pump too. He said to run the hose's in a big loop, and not to get a pump until I try it out. They sell a pump kit, but it was around $170 if I remember correctly. I would probably just get a 12 volt pump on e-bay.

h20king 02-22-2010 6:15 PM

12v pump from e bay will work just fine

themxercr85 02-22-2010 6:59 PM

Sounds like a good plan man. We have lots goin on with our epic as well. Lots of aftermarket mods as well and just fixing things that were right in the first place. Im super pumped to get out on it this spring.

wakemikey 02-23-2010 11:12 AM

More pics plz!

tuneman 02-23-2010 3:19 PM

Joe, do your amps have regulated power supplies? If so, the capacitors won't do much. I'd be a little worried with those in a wet boat environment where stuff gets crammed in all of the storage spots. <BR> <BR>For the cooler seal, put it on the lid so it looks better. And, Epic originally intended to have a thin removable plastic tub that inserted into the cooler compartment. It didn't fit right or something, so they dropped it. I would try to make something like that so your drinks aren't floating around in bildge water.

tinytim 02-23-2010 4:27 PM

I like your style. Sounds like you are going to have one hell of a tricked out boat! By the way, what does the dynamat do?

epicwinnipeg 02-23-2010 4:48 PM

have you done the glove box spring yet? pics? I'd like to get something nice and sturdy feeling in there as well and was thinking maybe 2 small gas shocks. <BR> <BR>also throwing a light bar on, a wind dam for the walk-thru and playing with the idea of having all the speaker grills painted charcoal to take the edge off the contrast. at least on the transom (like the subs) for the most part though, i bought this particular boat so i wouldn't have to make mods!

joesell 02-23-2010 5:14 PM

No doubt Twitch, I can't wait to ride. Keep your mod pic's coming. I was hoping to turn this into the current Epic thread for everyone. <BR> <BR>Tuneman, I'm not sure what Regulated power supplies means? I know Epic wired everything great already. I was actually suprised to find 4ga wires running to each amp. But for $60 a piece, why not. I've seen how great they work first hand. It does seem like people either love or hate caps though. I plan on mounting them up, out of the way, just to be safe. <BR> <BR>I put the foam on the lid, your right, much better. I'll get a pic next time I go over there. <BR> <BR>I heard Epic was working on a soft sided liner. I can only imagine what a pain that would be, because the cooler is so much bigger then the opening. I was thinking of sealing the bildge hole better, and maybe installing a drain hole right in the bottom of the cooler. I hesitate though, because I really want to take some time to think before I just start popping holes in bottom of the boat. <BR> <BR>Thank's Dan! Dynamat is a sound deading material. (I think) I don't know if you've been in an Epic yet, but theres a 12" sub mounted right behind the driver. Well,it hits pretty hard. I rattles everything on that side. The cupholders, the fiberglass, the plastic inserts, everything. Basically, it looks like tar tape. It sticks really well, and is pretty heavy for what it is. It's a night and day difference. All the rattles are gone, just like that. <BR> <BR>Ian, The glove box is done. That was almost the first day. I don't have a pic of that either, but I'll get it. Gas shocks would be like using a bulldozer to pull a kids wagon. You can do it, but it's overkill. The glove box cover is so light, the spring is really all you need. <BR> <BR>I was kicking around painting the speaker grills too. I was thinking orange, to match the boat, but someone photoshopped it for me and I didn't like it at all. Charcoal, or black would probably look great though. <BR> <BR>What is your plan for a wind dam? I'm open to all suggestions right now, and would welcome the input. <BR> <BR>That's really funny, I also bought this boat because it already had everything done. It never ends though, I always find something I have to have.

epicwinnipeg 02-23-2010 6:11 PM

I know the gas shock is overkill but the light, flimsy feel of the glove-box lid really bothers me and just isn't up to snuff with the rest of the boat. I'd like to laminate something to the back side to stiffen everything up then have a smooth, steady pressure for opening/closing. <BR> <BR>Glad you decided against orange for the grills:P less is more. <BR> <BR>wind dam: I'm thinking aluminum u channel on each side with a plexiglass panel that slides in from above or doing it with rare earth magnets hidden on the 'backside' of the walls so when the panel isn't in place, no hardware is visible. there would then be magnets mortised into the plexi panel as well.

joesell 02-23-2010 6:21 PM

We never close the lid, but I hear ya. I was suprised at how thin it was. It looks nice, just thin. <BR> <BR>The magnets sound interesting. I wonder if they could mess up the amps at all?

tuneman 02-24-2010 8:16 AM

Joe and Ian, the glove box was a manufacturing issue. The vendor made them thinner than what was specified. But, by the time they found out, it would have been too costly to start over. The new lids should be a lot thicker. So, you might want to give Epic a call to see if you can buy a new, thicker one.

andrewjet 02-24-2010 8:24 AM

Sounds very coool. Take more pic's!

joesell 02-24-2010 3:51 PM

Tuneman, That makes sense. But I really don't close the cover much so it works just fine for me. <BR> <BR>Jet, I'll take some more pic's asap

themxercr85 02-24-2010 6:22 PM

Joe you sound just like us. It never ends with this boat. We are somewhat turning it into a boat designed by us. Lots of stuff is being done to fix everything including the little things that arent made right. <BR> <BR>I got a quick question for you. Have you noticed ever that on one side of the swim step there is more space between the step and the trim piece? Also have you noticed if your engine is slightly not level? Ours is. We realized it at the end of the summer and the reason was the stringers were placed on-level. Kinda makes us laugh cause its something to simple to measure. As long as its not harming performance we think it gives the boat attitude haha.

themxercr85 02-24-2010 7:30 PM

Here is the list we made <BR> <BR>1) Starboard removable engine compartment wall/divider has broken along the fold line at the top, it's a poor design or made with poor materials or both and should be changed but keep it removable, same thing about to happen on the Port side divider <BR>2) Speedometer is not working and hard reset doesn't fix it, keeps looking for Pitot input which isn't installed <BR>3) Port ballast tank intermittently leaks in water fast enough to fill itself over about 4 hours with the switch in the neutral position, possibly same thing going on for Starboard side and Center tank although much less frequent <BR>4) Rattle coming from engine at idle but it may be the exhaust flappers, it's hard to tell maybe you guys have heard it before? <BR>5) Driver's seat wobbles on pedestal and forward/back and rotation friction adjustment doesn't work well so seat won't turn without a lot of reefing it around <BR> <BR>THESE NEED CHANGING <BR>6) Method of removing/reinstalling seat bottoms with those aluminum clips is a bit hokey they should probably be hinged <BR>7) Bow eye is mounted too low and way too hard to reach from inside the front of the boat <BR>8) Storage compartments need more ventilation they hold moisture in and yes that's a tall order <BR>9) Ballast tanks need auto shutoff once the water has been pumped in it's full or pumped out and it's empty <BR>10) Ballast tank pumps could go faster seems to take forever to fill/empty them <BR>11) Prop makes lots of noise against the underside of the hull at higher revs, probably normal for an inboard but the hull could benefit from some acoustic insulation above the prop it's probably shock waves coming off the spinning prop but it also could be cavitation have you ever looked at the spinning prop from underwater with scuba gear on? maybe the prop is not sized correctly? <BR>12) Suppress the over rev beeping it's annoying <BR>13) Engine hatch needs gas struts <BR>14) Side hatches need some other type of pulls or the fabric ones need keeping held up instead of getting folded under when the hatch goes down <BR>15) 3 trim tabs would be better, it'd allow the boat to be leveled and add some downforce to shape the wake, going straight the boat rides slightly rolled over to one side with one person in it <BR>16) Tower needs permanent Epic graphic on rear crossbrace rather than current black graphic which is scratched now and needs to be replaced <BR>17) Tower needs slight redesign of how the racks swivel inward the locking handles interfere with the blade structure and the rack has pointy and fortunately blunt rear ends to bang your head on getting out of the boat onto the dock <BR>18) Compartment needs to accommodate a wakesurf board, you can put it in the compartment with the amp but it takes removing the seat bottom swinging open the seatback under the glove box and a special technique <BR>19) Glove box needs strengthening it's wobbly <BR>20) Edge around driver's side needs a different black trim strip <BR>21) Get rid of all the cheap carpet in the boat, the mat material is great <BR>22) Driver's seat needs redesign so you can sit much higher, it's either way too low or the raised bolster slides back down or for good viz forward you really have to stand which feels awkward <BR>23) We found a small assortment of loose hardware in the aft bilge, washers, screws, nuts, etc (!) FineLine needs to clean out inside of hull when they're done building it <BR>24) Fit and finish needs a few notches up in quality I think e.g. side rubrail is a little wavy, seat cushions and Epic logo are a little cockeyed in their upholstery fabrication <BR>25) Gas cap retainer chains fussy to reinsert and one of them disconnected so cap went into the drink, we swam down to retrieve it but it needs a rethink on how to do keep them attached <BR>26) Need retractable cleats also on the bow sides as well as the ones on the stern <BR>27) Bungies on boardrack are hokey, X-Star had nice clamps <BR>28) Needs an easier to use smart tow system, the screen is too small and hard to use. <BR>29) A ski pillion would be nice, like malibu has one that twists down into the sun deck. <BR>30) Boot lube bottle needs securing. <BR>31) A new spot for the ballast intake would be nice so you can fill while moving faster than idle. <BR>32) Operating Manual needs to explain the ballast tanks and how to use them and the trimtab to shape the wake <BR>33) Ops Manual also needs to say whether the ballast or bilge pumps autoshutoff or keep draining the battery juice if they're left on

joesell 02-24-2010 7:35 PM

Twich, I havn't noticed any of those things. I'll look closer next time I go work on it though. <BR> <BR>There was a few little things that could've been done better. Things that should've been caught by quaity control. But they're so easy to fix, it's really not an issue for me. <BR> <BR>The things that make me love this boat are all little things they did right. Like the duel batteries with an isolator, twin 4 gauge feed wires for the amps. All the clean wire routes, with clearly labeled wires. Carpet in areas that you'll never see unless your like me and tear your boat apart. The list goes on and on. Every time I work on it, I end up shaking my head in amazement. <BR> <BR>Do I find things that make me say WTF? Hell yeah! But I find myself saying that about everything that I come across in day to day life. I think it's a good thing, for the most part. It makes me want to make my stuff better. <BR> <BR>I'd love to hear all about the things that you found wrong. But I'd also like to hear about how you fixed them. <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>I hope that nobody thinks I torn this boat apart to fix a bunch of stuff that was wrong. That's not the case at all. I just wanted to tweak it a bit, and add all the cool stuff that I listed above. <BR> <BR>Joe

joesell 02-24-2010 8:12 PM

WOW! That's one hell of a list. What year is your Epic? Have you talked to Jason about any of these problems? I agree with some of your points. I'll address the ones I can help with or have question about in order. <BR> <BR>1) I don't understand what you mean about the engine dividers. I actually liked them. Some pic's would be helpful. <BR> <BR>3) Do your ballast fill hose's loop way up before they go into the tanks? If not, thats the problem. I had that on my last boat. I had to actually install manual shut off valves to stop it. <BR> <BR>6) The seats clips are junk. Hinges would be sweet, but I like being able to remove them. Theres got to be a better way. <BR> <BR>7) The bow eye is a pain to get to. That's why I'm installing the boat buddy. We ride in the cold a lot, It sucked, at the end of last year, to have to get back in the water after I was warm and dry. <BR> <BR>9) Don't you have overflows? I know the ballast is done filling when I hear the water spilling back into the lake. <BR> <BR>10) I thought the ballast filled/emptied really fast. I clocked mine at 10.5 min both ways. That seems fast, considering how much water it's moving. <BR> <BR>13) I thought the engine hatch needed something too. But then after thinking about it. It's nice to be able to pull it open so far for access. <BR> <BR>14) The hatch pulls do need some work. There's got to be a quick fix for them. <BR> <BR>15) 3 trim tabs would be better. It's actually on my long term list. But from a company stand point, I can see how they might think it's overkill. <BR> <BR>16) my tower didn't have an Epic graphic. I actually put a white Epic sticker on mine. <BR> <BR>17) The tower could use a positive stop for the swivels. I can see us breaking the handles pretty easily. <BR> <BR>19) Tuneman addressed the glove box earlier today. He said it was a distibutor error that has been fixed on the new boats. <BR> <BR>20) I agree about the trim strip. It sucks, and is falling off. It's not just that one, but the one on the cooler as well. This is also on the list of things to tweek before spring. I actually found some trim at work today that I really liked. Now I just need to find it at the part store. <BR> <BR>26) my boat came with retactable cleats in the rear. Still only has the 1 tie point in the front anchor area though. I might add some front cleats this spring. I want to see if it's a pain first though. <BR> <BR>29) A ski pillon would be nice, but only if its removable. <BR> <BR>30) The boot luber is a joke. Do people really need lube to get into there bindings? I'm thinking about turning it into a shot dispenser. But then I really would need to secure that precious cargo. <BR> <BR>31) If they moved the ballast fill, it would auto fill all the time. They don't have a valve body on this system. But that's not a bad thing, it's the reason it fills so damn fast. Valves just slow everything down. <BR> <BR>33) I think everything shuts off when the key is off. I'm not positive about that though. Either way, you should be able to hear them running before you walk away.

themxercr85 02-24-2010 9:34 PM

1) Engine dividers are those crappy dividers in the rear. They are made out of poor plastic and they are just one piece creased and folded which makes them very weak. Ours have already broken. <BR> <BR>3) I thought they did but one of them was too low and would let water in the tank until the tank water lined up with lake level on the hull. <BR> <BR>7) whats a boat buddy? <BR> <BR>9) We have overflows but I think we meant to have some sort of sensor put in to stop the pump when it sees that the tank is full. <BR> <BR>10) It could be 10 min but it definitely felt longer. <BR> <BR>13) Your right it is nice but its not nice that the peg screw losens up, falls out and you have nothing to hold the hatch up. <BR> <BR>All in all we still love the boat and are making it our own in our own special way. Its still being worked on and next time I am up north I will take some more pics. The system has already been replaced and the trim tabs are on. Those should be a cool experiment. Matt at Epic told us they've tried tabs and made the boat submarine on accident when they had the tabs all the way down and punched it haha.

epicwinnipeg 02-25-2010 11:12 AM

Wow that is quite a list and frankly a careless post. I purchased my epic sight unseen and couldn't be happier with it. Having purchased it sight unseen I read everything I could find online before making any decisions. Had I come across your list of personal problems with the boat I honestly wouldn't have bought it and would never have known what I was missing. To anyone reading through this, please take it with a grain of salt.

epicwinnipeg 02-25-2010 11:31 AM

Let me follow that up by saying there is nothing wrong with some constructive criticism forwarded to epic. The fact that they will listen to what we, the owners, have to say is what is going to continue to better their boats. I just don't think this is the place to air such subjective literature.

andrewjet 02-25-2010 12:41 PM

Ian "WHAT" a wakeboarding and boat sight isnt the place?? THIS IS THE PLACE to say what ever you want about anything boarding or boats. This is where we learn, play, and make decisions on what boats we are going to buy. You get over it and grow some.

tuneman 02-25-2010 1:08 PM

A little birdie told me that a Heineken mini keg will hook up to that boot luber quite nicely:-) <BR> <BR>Either that, or swap it for a shower. <BR> <BR>The majority of these lists are not problems, but upgrades. And if you want to list problems with boats, I've owned 2 Malibus, along with an Epic, and the list for the Malibus would be much longer. Epic builds a very solid boat. Of the new boats I've had, the Epic had the least amount of issues. And they take care of you very well. <BR> <BR>Anyway, you could put flow sensors in to automatically turn on and off the pumps, but they're kinda spendy. Besides, you can run those aerator pumps for almost forever and they won't die.

norcalmalibu 02-25-2010 2:28 PM

I've sat in multiple Epics and I can agree with what twitch is saying. I feel the boat has a good base to start with but they f'ed up in the end game. I also think buying a boat unseen is careless and asking for problems. Now you have to defend your purchase which is what you're doing. We can pick apart just any boat out there but comparing the fit and finish of a malibu to an epic is apples to oranges.

tuneman 02-25-2010 3:37 PM

Nate, I'm not partial to any boat manufacturer and I sold my Epic last fall. No manufacturer pays me, so I tell it how I see it. <BR> <BR>You're correct when you say that Malibu's fit and finish is superior, but that's not what I said. I was referring to warranty issues and those "what the heck were they thinking" issues.

epicwinnipeg 02-25-2010 5:01 PM

tuneman, in response to your suggestion of replacing the boot luber with a shower, have you got any tips one how to go about this? I've thought about hooking a shower up but not too in depth and I'm just not sure what it would take.

tinytim 02-25-2010 5:17 PM

I had the pleasure of riding in tuneman's Epic last Nov. &amp; it was a great ride (thanks tuneman!). The surf wake on an Epic is well....epic. I thought the boat seemed solid &amp; had a nice feel to it. I think a person can find something wrong with just about anything out there if they look hard enough. Tweeking a boat, car, truck or anything else is just an individual way of making it truly what you want, because in the end everyone has different opinions on what is important to them. Any manufacture would find it mission impossible to satisfy everyone, but i think Epic gives a person a great starting platform. Twitch &amp; Joe, have fun with your rides! <BR> <BR>Ian If this is not the place to discuss varying opinions then where is the place?

joesell 02-25-2010 5:22 PM

Twitch, The boat buddy is that grey/black thing up above. It automatically locks your boat to the trailer when you drive it on. Some people don't care for them, but I wouldn't have a boat without one. I took some pic's of my cleats for you today. I'll see how it goes this spring, I might add some up front. I also looked at my dividers. I really like the way they look. I don't understand how yours broke. What happened? I also looked at my rear deck. It's centered and mounted flush. It also looks really nice. <BR> <BR>Tuneman, I know what you mean about those pumps being bulletproof. I forgot to turn one off on my last boat when I first got it. It ran dry for 24 hrs before I realized. That pump lasted 9 more years. It didn't die until the day I sold it.(Sorry Brian, It really did work right up until then.) I don't know about Heineken, but it would be sweet to turn it into a keg-o-rator. (so many options) <BR> <BR>Nate, I agree with you. I've been impressed with the fit and finish of every Malibu I've ever been in. And there is no comparing the interiors. But I don't think the people at Epic had a Malibu type interior in mind when they designed this boat. I think the main focus was on the wake, and performance. I think they nailed both of those. Don't get me wrong, I like the interior on my Epic, it's very comfy, and looks great. Just not as nice as a Malibu. But while your laughing at comparing the interiors, I'm laughing at the thought of comparing the wake and performance. It's like comparing a bus with a Z06, you just don't do it. <BR> <BR>I honestly didn't start this thread to bash Epic. I really love this boat, and as I get into it, I'm more and more impressed with the way it was built. I just wanted to share my ideas with other current, and potential Epic owners. I also would love some input from people that have already gone down this road. I'm going to keep posting the pic's as I finish things, <BR> <BR>Joe<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/776891.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/776892.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/776893.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/776894.jpg" alt="Upload">

joesell 02-25-2010 5:23 PM

Ian, Here are the pic's of the glove box spring. It really does the trick. I mounted it with 2 screws in the lower part, and 2 part epoxy on the lid. It took about 10 min. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by joesell on February 25, 2010) <BR> <BR>(Message edited by joesell on February 25, 2010)

joesell 02-25-2010 5:29 PM

Ok, I guess I was kidding. Here are the glove box pic's.<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/776901.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/776902.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/776903.jpg" alt="Upload">

epicwinnipeg 02-25-2010 6:12 PM

joe, that spring looks like it does the trick. <BR> <BR>spending some time on google looking for the ideal 'lid stay' i decided a friction hinge would be perfect (think of a laptop screen). now i just need to source it! <BR> <BR>i really didn't mean to start a battle here. my intention was only for readers to take it with a grain of salt. I read twitch's post on my phone and a list like that is overwhelming on a 3" screen! re-reading the post, he does express he is still very happy with the boat and it gives the whole post a different context than I took it in initially. i know i was weary of the new company and any reservations disappeared when i picked up the boat. with epic dealers being few and far between (non-existent in canada) posts on here and around the web are going to be used as a decision making platform. i just felt a list of 30some problems that "need changing" could be an unwarranted deterrent. <BR> <BR>here's to getting this thread back on track

themxercr85 02-25-2010 7:15 PM

Haha no worries Ian. I see what your saying that a list of 30 problems is like whattttt!!?? but you have to understand me and my dad are both very interested in how things are made and put together. We tend to go over things with a fine comb. Clearly haha. <BR> <BR>Joe, those cleats must help. I always found it really hard to tie up to my buddies boats and even docks. I always have to tie a rope around the tower. I've never seen a boat buddy but I will bring that up to my dad. Do you have to drill into the gelcoat? Thats probably a stupid question... haha. That spring you have put in looks like it does the job perfectly and simply. <BR> <BR>What is that picture of the cooler? did you make a better cooler than what they already have? When the boat was in the shop getting the system done I opened up that lid and saw a bunch of drinks still in there from summer, soaked in oil and gas and gunk. So I am interested in that you did there because its not nice to grab an drink and have crap all over your hands. <BR> <BR>What I meant by the epic sticker on the tower needs fixing is that all it is a plain old sticker. So when the rope hangs down it eventually chews up the sticker. It should be machined in or something. <BR> <BR>As for the dividers. I think they just broke from weight on the hatch doors or maybe walking across them. I agree they look great but the way they creased them and folded them made them very weak. <BR> <BR>What do you think about having carpet everywhere? We are always putting stuff under seats and it gets kinda moist and nasty in there. I really like the matting they have on the floor and swimstep. What about you? <BR> <BR>Also just another fineline mezzup: When we had the system re-done. My buddy Shane noticed that the 6.5's in the back weren't level with each other. One was 1/4 inch lower than the other. Then he came to realize that all the tweets weren't lined up either haha. We just laughed. <BR> <BR>I am supposed to go up and see it soon. I will definitely take pics of the amps that I forgot to even look at last time, as well as everything that has been done.

joesell 02-25-2010 10:14 PM

It's the cooler lid. I just put some foam on it to help seal it, and stip it from rattling. Now big deal.

joesell 03-05-2010 11:06 PM

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I got the 2nd heater 1/2 way installed. I took some pic's of where I want to install the vents in the dash. I think I'll sleep on it before I cut the holes though.

I ordered a hot tube flange to use as a garbage hole. But I noticed that a cup holder fits in it really nice. I'm going to see if I can modify it to make it work.

I started looking for the perfect place to mount the caps. Nothing looks right. I think I might have to move my amps up 2". These things are really turning into a pain in the butt.

_vitty_ 03-07-2010 11:50 AM

Anyone know if wetsounds ws650's will fit in place of the kicker components on the transom or are they too deep?

themxercr85 03-07-2010 12:11 PM

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Pretty sure they went straight in.

_vitty_ 03-07-2010 2:58 PM

next time you see your boat could you look at them from the inside and let me know if they had to cut any of the fiberglass. I know the kickers are right up against the fiberglass on the inside of the engine bay and they list at a mounting depth of 2 7/8" without the crossovers. I believe the crossovers are mounted to them though so that would put them at a little over 3". To replace the woofers/tweeters did the just fab up a piece for you? How did they install that then? That setup looks awesome.

themxercr85 03-07-2010 7:27 PM

I wil for sure check that next time. For the tweets and subs that were in the middle he just fab'd a new plate and stuck it over the existing one. I am really impressed with it it looks good and sounds great too.

Do you guys notice the swim step difference? look at the right side compared to the left. Notice the gap between the step and trim piece on the left compared to the right.

_vitty_ 03-07-2010 9:19 PM

Think he could fab another exact replica plate for me to install? That would be awesome!

joesell 03-08-2010 7:23 AM

Twitch, What makes the swim step sit crooked? Are the mount bolts tight? That's really wierd.

It looks like they made new speaker mounting plates for the sub area, and the side speakers. If that's the case, I'm sure it made more room in there.

tuneman 03-08-2010 11:03 AM

Here's an idea that one of you should try: Get rid of the pull straps on the back hatches. Then pick up some matching vinyl and stitch up a nice lookin' corner pull loop. Use the inside corner of the hatch. Attach one end to one underside, go up and over the top and then attach the other end to the other perpendicular underside. Does that make sense?

DMA 03-08-2010 11:08 AM


I rebuilt the rear transom on Twitch's Epic. There is more than enough space behind the "transom". The center plate is doubled up. Back plate holds the speakers and the front one flushes in the XS-650. Basically we cut out a big rectangle that would allow the new plate to flush in. The two side plates attach over the factory location, we just opened up the holes to fit the WS.

tuneman 03-08-2010 11:28 AM

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Here's a pic of an example of what I was trying to explain. You can see the pretend strap on the starboard hatch. Make yours a different color, thicker, thinner. Or maybe even cover the whole corner so you pull from only one way. I think it would look pretty good and you wouldn't have to mess with the loops falling in all the time.

BTW, thanks to Greg for the original idea:-) I know you're reading this.

themxercr85 03-08-2010 3:58 PM

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There ya go, thats the guy to talk to! haha

heres a pic of the dividers I was talking about. And how they are failing...

themxercr85 03-08-2010 3:59 PM

Tuneman, thats easier to understand now that you show a pic. Thats a good idea I'll show that to my pops and see what he thinks. Something definitely needs to be done with them.

joesell 03-09-2010 3:30 PM

Tune, I like the hatch pull idea. I think I might add that to the list.

Twitch, That sucks about the dividers. You can fix them pretty easy though. Take some 1" aluminum squre tubing, the length of the divider. Scrape all that glue out that oozed out. Put the square stock in there, and run some screws in from the top and sides. That should really shore it up. The square stock is just one option. I think I might start looking for something closer to shoe molding, but not wood.

tuneman 03-10-2010 7:51 AM

Twitch, wouldn't that be covered under warranty? Just a guess, but it looks like they used PVC to make those panels. Probably should have eaten the extra cost and went with ABS or something more durable.

Another option for Joe's idea would be to make a run to Home Depot and look in the brick molding/trim section. You should be able to find PVC brick molding or square strips of plastic for reinforcement.

themxercr85 03-10-2010 4:29 PM

Sounds like that would work pretty easy. I think we are having some fiberglass ones made or maby aluminum not sure. And we told epic about the problem and they sent us a new one but only one haha. And we figured it will happen again so might as well do it the right way. Tuneman I agree, the plastic is poor quality ABS woulda been much better.

_vitty_ 03-12-2010 8:34 AM

I went ahead and got WetSounds xs-650's to replace all of the kicker speakers. I got 5 pairs and ended up getting a 6th pair for free which was sweet! Now the question is, what to do with the 6th pair? I was thinking it would be sweet to put one speaker to the driver's left on the big flat section of fiberglass on the walkthrough. This would be the panel that one of the amps is currently mounted to. Not sure where to put the other one. Any thoughts suggestions?

_vitty_ 03-14-2010 6:00 PM

someone has to have some thoughts :)

themxercr85 03-14-2010 6:19 PM

I tried to give you ideas but ww was tweeking out on me and I couldnt log in. But what about next to the sub?

tuneman 03-15-2010 9:43 AM

Lose the Kicker solobaric subs in the transom. Add the sixth pair back there on a panel, along with a pair, or two, of HLCDs. Make it LOOOUD.

_vitty_ 03-15-2010 9:53 AM

Do they even make HLCD's that can get wet?

_vitty_ 03-15-2010 11:54 AM

An idea just came to me based on Chad's suggestion. I will make some sort of filler plates for the 8" subs on the transom and then mount the extra pair of wetsounds where they used to be. I will then mount the two subs inside the boat on the flat panels between the seats and the floor.

What do you guys think about that idea?

wetsounds1 03-15-2010 12:35 PM

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that would be best, I would build the panel as above and put the 4 pairs of XS-650 in the transom. Here is a pic of another one so you have an idea.

we have looked at the HLCD in the transom concept but with as much water that flows back. The horn would become a funnel. And water would go right into the voice coil of the compression driver. So not a good idea.

I can tell you that this boat with the 4 pairs of XS-650 in the transom rocked. It was very loud and clear and works great. He also added a 3-Some on the tower so the overall was crazy.

Wet Sounds

tuneman 03-15-2010 1:13 PM

Aw heck, I don't think you'd get much more water on the HLCD diaphragm that you already do on the current tweeters. I say give it a try. Buy parts from parts-express.com to save $$. Or, if water is still a concern, you could go with an offset diaphragm, like Image Dynamics HLCD's, but those are $$$$.

_vitty_ 03-15-2010 2:23 PM

I have decided to mount the extra pair in place of the 8" subs on the transom. I will be leaving the remote back there as well as the kicker tweeters as placeholders for now anyway.

What do you guys think about mounting the subs to the flat panels between the seats and the floor somewhere? Would you do this? Or would you make a small box for them and hide them away somewhere? Or would you sell them and pick up a 10" or 12" woofer and build a box to for it and hide it away somewhere?

_vitty_ 03-15-2010 2:30 PM

Also, would anybody that has access to their boat do me a favor and measure the opening to where the amps are at with the seat off as well as the dimensions of that storage compartment at floor level under the amps. I'd like to plan out a box if I go the route of ditching the 8" subs for something bigger to put under there.
Thanks guys!!

ps Can anyone find the old Epic owner's thread I started last year? I'm not finding it.

themxercr85 03-15-2010 3:19 PM

My original idea was to throw some pro 80's in the transom but Shane talked to Tim and like he said they dont like to get wet. Having 8 6.5's is pretty crisp and loud. For the subs We replaced the standard kicker cuz it was crap and also put on at the drivers feet. There's more then enough room down there so Shane just made a false wall and put a 15in Image Dynamics IDQ behind it. Turned out great. I wouldn't like to have a sub on the floor in the storage compartment because it gets pretty moist and dewy in there and the sub is also more likely to getting smashed by something.

_vitty_ 03-15-2010 3:41 PM

Hey Twitch,
Do you have Shane's email or any way I could contact him? I want him to make me two white plates for the transom the size of the old kicker speakers with a circular cutout for the xs-650. Thanks man!

_vitty_ 03-15-2010 4:45 PM

Nevermind, was able to contact him via Divine's website.:)

themxercr85 03-15-2010 10:49 PM

You've got the right dude then!

tuneman 03-16-2010 3:32 PM

Nic, speakers between the seat and floor is a bad idea. If the grills are flimsy, they get smashed. If the grills are sturdy, like the kicker subs, they chew toes and heels. I had speakers down low on my VLX and it was lame.

_vitty_ 03-16-2010 6:00 PM

Good call Chad! That thought had briefly crossed my mind. It would be killer to stub your toe on that kicker grill, OUCH!! I think I am going to ditch them and put in another 12 by the amps.

joesell 03-23-2010 3:02 PM

Vic, sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, I've been working on the boat non-stop. The ice melted on monday, and I can't wait to get on the water.

If your getting a WS 420, you might as well get an HSE while your at it. I installed the WS 420 last fall, only to tear it back out and re-intall it with the HSE over the winter. If you look above, I mounted them side by side, with the original sub volume controllers glued underneath. I wanted to keep the volumes seperate, and they do the same thing the sub control on the EQ does. So really, nothing is hooked up to the sub knob on the EQ. I would've liked to center them more, but the air temp sending unit is in the way. It looks great when it's in the boat anyway. I have more pic's of the mounting process. I just don't have time to load them right now. I will tell you though, I made a plate for the top of the "fo-carbon fiber" insert, so I spreads out the weight of everything. I'll get you some pic's asap.

joesell 03-23-2010 6:42 PM

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Here ya go Vic.

joesell 03-23-2010 7:14 PM

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I mentioned above that I was installing a second heater. Turns out, I'm kind of impulsive. If I would've sat down and figured out what need to be done, I probably wouldn't have done this one.

First of all, I need a circulation pump. If you don't have a pump, the coolant will be cold by the time it gets to the second heater. You also need to wire a switch to turn the pump on and off.

Second, You can't run two heater fans off the same switch.

Third, You have to drill some pretty big holes in your brand new boat.

Well, I didn't want to have all these switches, that was the worst part for me. So I made a cool little relay panel for the heaters, and the pump. I have a relay for each heater setting, and a relay for the pump. I have the pump wired so it'll turn on any time the fans are running. I put diodes in these wires so it wouldn't back feed and mess up the switch setting.

There's not much I can do about all the holes, but it doesn't make me any less nervous.

I know the relay panel looks rough, but it's the first time I ever made anything like this, and it'll be mounted up under the dash anyway. So please keep the criticism positive.

_vitty_ 03-24-2010 1:20 PM

Thanks for the pictures Joe! It's Nic by the way haha :D no biggie.

The switch looks damn good for a first attempt! My boat should be out of storage in a couple weeks. At that point I will start posting pictures of all my mods.

Prior to the boat coming out I am making a plate to go over the subs in the back. Custom marine audio places wanted about $700 to make it and paint it. That's way out of my price range so I'm doing it myself. Will keep this thread posted as I go on that.

tuneman 03-24-2010 2:44 PM

Joe, I had two heaters in my Malibu VLX, plumbed in series. Both heaters pumped out plenty of heat without an auxilary pump. I don't know about a closed cooling system, but you may not need the extra pump.

_vitty_ 03-24-2010 4:37 PM

Hey Tuneman, saw your car driving in Mound this past Sunday over by Kirby's. Was a woman in it though I believe. Was going to ask you, I thought I saw a picture of your Epic in your garage at one point....am I correct? I'm assuming you had 8 foot doors then if it fit?

joesell 03-25-2010 4:52 AM

Thank's for the heads up tune. Maybe I'll try it without the pump first, it would be easy to add on later.

Nic, I'll get some more pic's of the batts tonight.

tuneman 03-25-2010 7:32 AM

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Nic, how do you know it was my car? What gave it away?:) Hopefully, that was my wife driving. My garage is only 7 feet high and an Epic fits in a 7' high by 25' deep garage. You have to push the tower over center though. I can explain if anyone needs me to.

_vitty_ 03-25-2010 9:39 AM

Haha yup plate gave it away. Yes, please do explain the tower thing. Thanks!

tuneman 03-25-2010 1:08 PM

Ok, to get the tower to under 7 feet:

Unscrew the two levers and let the tower fold down (make sure your racks are turned 90 degrees to the back!). At this point, it'll fit an 8 foot garage.

Now, climb under the tower so you are standing in between the dash and the tower (if you aren't there already). Turn around, so you're facing the transom. On each side of you, there will be an arm from the tower pointing toward you. These arms have the threaded shafts on the ends from the levers you just unscrewed.

Apply an even pressure on both arms and push straight down. The folded sides of the tower will then go over-center and the whole tower will lower another foot. Voila!

At the lowest point, your racks might rest on the vinyl on the sides. I used a life jacket for extra padding between the racks and vinyl.

_vitty_ 03-25-2010 7:29 PM

Thanks Tuneman!

And thanks Joe in advance for those pictures of the batteries. Will be helpful to see what the factory connectors were and what is all hooked to the batteries.

themxercr85 03-25-2010 7:39 PM

Joe why do you have both a 420 and a HSE?

_vitty_ 03-25-2010 8:41 PM

The 420 is an equalizer and the HSE is an automatic volume control. When the boat revs higher the volume increases and when the boat revs lower the volume decreases. It acts the same way some automobiles do in that regard.

themxercr85 03-25-2010 11:42 PM

okay gotcha. Thats cool dude. Do you have the redline beep on yours? it was something on our list to get rid of. Its super annoying when you need to cruise across the lake.

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