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And speaking of logic, why don't we use the delusional logic of a right-winger? You know the one where you guys proclaim, "Well, criminals are going to break the law anyway, so why have any gun regulations?" Why don't we get rid of speed limits? People are going to speed, so why do we need them? Stop signs; hell, people run those all of the times so let's just get rid of those, as well? |
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First point: owning a firearm is a RIGHT. just like your ability to type this is a right. You also have the right of free association and religion among rights. Removing rights is taken very seriously and while we can debate the equal application of justice, it is a highly debated peer reviewed process with many checks and balances. You don't take peoples rights away because Jr can't pass Alegbra and cusses out the teacher. You should look up all the famous people who were kicked out of school Some are billionaries and many famous entertainers. Second point: Of the gun deaths that you are speaking about, only 500 to 1000 a year are accidents. There are over 250 million guns in America and only that many accidents. The rest are wilful acts. Around 20,000 or so are suicide. God rest their souls. Guns were just a tool. The 11,000 or so murders with guns are categorized in this 2011 CDC report from National Vital Statistics, Deaths: Preliminary Data for 2011 by Donna L. Hoyert, Ph.D., and Jiaquan Xu, M.D., Division of Vital Statistics According to the Center for Disease Control (CDC), gang homicides accounted for roughly 8,900 of 11,100 gun murders in both 2010 and 2011. That means that there were just 2,200 non gang-related firearm murders in both years in a country of over 300 million people and 250 million guns. Another study shows that in Chicago, Baltimore, Detroit and Washington D.C, 25% of all murder by gun happens in those 4 cities. So 1650 murder in the whole rest of the country and if you count California alone, there are over 1,000 a year there. All these place have the strictest gun control laws but contribute to almost all the violence. In the mean time regardless of accident, you are still have over 5 million crashes each year killing 30,000 to 40,000 in vehicles and injuring over 2.2 million each year like clockwork. According to safety people, there is not such thing as an accident. There is always a trigger to an "accident". Question is, was it on purpose or even negligent. Are all people shot in those democrat city gang attacks the intended victims? If you drive a car and are impaired then you basically murdered someone. As far as your very few people in cars trying to kill people, they are keeping those stats close to the vest. Hard to find those stats. There are many subtle types of homicide and manslaughter associated with vehicles. Point is, it is ton compared to non gang murders. If you want to go to drug overdoses, those are over 40,000 a year too. Oddly enough many of those gun murders are done to get people their drugs so they can screed about guns online. |
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I have a few guns at home. I have yet seen one of them get up and go kill anyone. There are over 250,000 million guns in the hands of people at any given time. Like I said, get rid of democrat cities, at we have less of an issue than sweden. Oddly enough, the highest gun crime areas are the ones where there are extremely tight gun laws. Where did that person in Texes go for his terror campaign? A mall with a policy of no concealed carry in a state that welcomes concealed carry. Another looney bin liberal idea, give away our rights to the government because you can not keep your people under control. |
A guy with a gun stopped a mass shooting at Walmart, another soft target. Way more effective than anything the lunatic left has put forth. So lets bury the story lease the sheep change their minds on giving up their control to the Gov whos ran by "literally Hitler".
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you cite high crime in areas with high regulation. Are you suggesting that the regulation causes the crime or that areas with a lot of criminal activity have lots of law breakers? You aren't suggesting that because laws get broken by criminals that we shouldn't have laws (see for example your first paragraph about "you guys" and drugs)? |
I think the point is when you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have them. Those big, libtard cities can pass any law they want and it isn't gonna fix or change anything except to make things harder on law abiding citizens. Criminals don't give a wake77 about obeying any laws.
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Why do the gun grabbers try to use suicide as argument for gun control? If people want to kill themselves, they will. If people want to kill many people, they will. We've seen mass murder from trucks, we saw a guy in China kill 33 with a sword, we just saw a Mexican kill other Mexicans which doesn't fit the narrative so it's not highly reported. We just saw a mass shooting in Dayton that doesn't fit the narrative so it's not getting the attention. Those are the facts that prove you don't give AF about guns, you care about trying to control a portion of the population you don't agree with under the guise of making others safer or these things would be reported equally. But they're not & it's exactly why the right is going to fight this tooth & nail & just like in New Zeland, no body is going to turn in their guns but they'll create a bigger black market for them. How did prohibition work out? Libs love to argue it did nothing & people still got their booze. Not one iota of crap the left has put forward has stopped a mass shooting. The ONLY thing that has is another person with a gun or the guy whos weapon jammed & then he got jumped. |
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As far as OD's. Guns don't draw you in at a party or after a surgery and put their hooks into you until you over do it while chasing the dragon. While I am sure some people OD for suicide, some of them are people chasing pleasure and some of them are also trying to medicate mental health issues. If it is mental health, what can you do? You can not make a person commit themselves. You can't detain them against their will. If we could the whole network of MSNBC would have been detained a long time ago. I would say the regulation does nothing to deter crime. It is the culture of the people and the evil in any given individuals heart. England is now engaging in knife control measures. You want the government registering your steak knives? Like Mark pointed out, the only people who will have guns are the criminals that are bent on using them on other people anyway which is already illegal. Now you just open it up to other crimes like rape, home invasion robbery, etc. Aren't you guys suggesting the war on drugs doesn't work so we should make drugs legal? Heard that stupid argument over and over. So much of the blame on the gun is stupid and the need to remove them in history is always by a group who is trying to subjegate the masses. Considering the democrat party has a long history of this and all of their associated left wing governments in history, I will take a very strict PASS on this. On mental health issue. What can you say again. You are seeing a real uptick in California. Mass homelessness. Middle class dying. Why? Regulations and the regulations that cause the cost of basic living from being accessed by even the middle class. I am sure you just love the fact that ol California stuck it to Trump with higher effeciency regulations. I am also sure you true believers love it that california also passed a law that mandates 100% renewables (which is a lie unless the state is going to put in giant batteries). All that means is the regular people are not going to be able to afford energy or vehicles. It is already happening. PG&E is getting expensive. I could not even give away a car that was running well because it had a fault light on. New cars are well over $20,000 and the registration and insurance is even more out of control. So, are we really having a mental health issue or is it a government sponsored attack on the people and created dispair? |
how about the Missouri kid walking thru walmart in full tacticool gear, gun slung around his neck and 100 rnds of ammo?? lucky to survive that level of stupidity
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^From Portland no less.
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Well, let's apply your logic to other things. Why do we forbid countries from having nuclear weapons? I have yet seen one of them get up and go kill anyone. And where did you see the mall had "a policy of no concealed carry"? |
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Why have any laws at all? |
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Machine guns are already heavily regulated. What more do you need? You are not changing anything else. This is a human issue. |
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You ever thought that the increase of mental illness could be caused by marijuana? It does have an impact on the developing brain. Matter of fact mental health experts will tell you that your emotional growth pretty much stops the day that you start using drugs (including weed). |
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Mass Shootings in Gun-Free Zones For good reason these self-congratulatory zones have become a way of death. According to ABC News, El Paso law enforcement officials advise that, moments before his killing rampage, the shooter cased the Walmart “looking for Mexicans.” While that may be so, it is nevertheless true that, consistent with his “manifesto,” his recon was also calculated to make sure that he would be attacking in a low-security area. In that regard, the Walmart store had no armed security guard, no police presence, and was located in a shopping mall that was a self-proclaimed “gun-free zone.” |
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You really need someone to explain to you why we try and keep Iran and others like that from having nuclear weapons? It is done so they do not have an equal seat at the world table and rightfully so. Just like you democrats want to keep people from having guns for protection. |
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The whole "Gun-Free Zone" argument is BS anyway. Even if the mall in El Paso was a self-described "Gun Free Zone" (which it wasn't), there is no criminal penalty in TX for violating that type of law. |
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You really need to examine my comments more closely. Who was advocating "Iran and others" from having nuclear weapons? Not me. You totally missed the point. The argument was that weapons (whether it's a handgun, a shotgun, a bazooka, an a-bomb, whatever) should not be allowed in the hands of the wrong people. |
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We are 15th in home invasions and get this, we have been trending down since 2005 while gun ownership has been trending up. 14th in rape and we have been trending down since 2005 as well. You know what the gun ownershp has done in that time. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...-countys-says/ Most homicides in U.S. occurred in 5 percent of counties, says study |
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The country's debt continues to rise, gun ownership has too. Maybe those two are also connected. |
How's those back ground checks trump was talking about coming along?
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You really should actually learn our laws instead of believing the bullcrap written by people who never actually tried to exercise the laws they write about. You do realize that the articles you tend to read about guns are written by people who are scared of guns and never owned one yet they write about the process like they actually know what they process is. |
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Again, before Trump spoke to the master at the NRA, he was proclaiming he was for more involved background checks, then it was no. Why did he say it (along with plenty of GOP senators) and then back down? Just start by answering that question. |
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Pretty simple really |
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Here is a test. You live in a big anyone can have a gun (or 20) state. Try and buy a gun down at the gun store. Report back to us what you had to go through to buy it. |
Another today in Texas. Shooter was angry white dude, *checks notes for proper response* Thoughts and Prayers.
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Ralph is correct on that. I am pro gun but seeing what you can buy off armslist is pretty crazy.
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I can't speak for every state but here in KS you can buy and sell guns by private party all day long. I sold my AR 10 on armslist. I was worried about it too so I contacted the sheriff to see if I needed to do anything special. He said no. So unless you know the person buying it, or they straight up tell you they are a felon you did not"Knowingly" sell to a felon.
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You might know a gun is stolen if it has been reported as such. But how would you know whether the gun had been used in the commission of a crime? |
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Listen I am not advocating for this. I am actually against it but its out there and perfectly legal. |
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The last one? https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost....un-report/amp/ |
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So when you said:
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" Interesting to me we're debating this topic & almost all agree that is one loop hole to be closed "
We were simply having a discussion. Not everything needs to be debated/argued over. |
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Srsly -- it's nice to see reasonable people come to agreement from time to time. (oops, my bad, forgive me for quoting that line from the communist manifesto) |
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If all jurisdictions regulated private party sales to the level where you live, wouldn't that prevent some guns from getting into the hands of some criminals? Sure, "when private party gun sales are outlawed, only outlaws will sell guns private party," but that's true of all criminal activity, right? It at least keeps the law abiding citizen from unwittingly participating in a transaction with someone whose criminal background could've been revealed from a background check. I'm sure you'd agree that keeping guns out of the hands of criminals is a good thing? |
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Can you tell me without looking it up what is considered the gun for registration? The fact I posed the question to you should tell you something about it. Which part is the gun for a AR 15? |
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So, back to the question at hand since this registration thing is so cut and dried and will solve most of the issues. Which part of an AR15 is considered the gun for registration purposes? Surely this is a simple answer. |
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How is it not a human issue? We’ve had widespread civilian gun ownership for centuries. And only recently are mass shootings (thy are not gang/crime-related) an issue. Thompson machine guns used to be for sale at hardware stores. Didn’t hear about a bunch of deranged 20-30 year old white dudes back then shooting kids at schools. Only reason the NFA was enacted was because of mob violence during prohibition. |
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(wake77) Join Date: Jan 2009 01-12-2010, 12:37 PM Reply Quick Reply
I use an AK-47 for home defense. Let's see that mofo get up with a full clip inside of his body. wake77) Join Date: Jan 2009 01-12-2010, 3:43 PM Reply Quick Reply Well...you know the ole addage, "Peace through superior firepower." Guess girls having no interest in you changed you into a beta cuck |
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I wasn't discussing the number of guns per capita. I was pointing out that the AVAILABILITY has done nothing but decrease over the years. |
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As is anyone using a 30cal (7.62x39) for 'home defense'. The energy those carry through intermediate barriers (drywall) is wayyyy too high to be using that inside a home/apartment. |
Supporting data for the above statement. Fun fact, the 5.56x45/.223 fired from the dreaded assault rifle is actually one of the safest cartridges to use inside a home or apartment. Small size + high velocity = fragmentation and reduced lethality to someone on the other side of the drywall.
http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/sel...allBarrier.jpg |
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