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-   -   cooling issue (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=808996)

CALIV210 04-19-2019 8:54 AM

cooling issue
 
I posted this in the wake garage as well some of you might have read it this am . Kinda long winded

Hey guys I pulled my boat out of hibernation yesterday and cleaned it all up . After it was clean I decided to hook the plunger up and warm up the oil for an oil change. I turned on the water hose and fired up the boat and watched carefully for water to start flowing out of the exhaust . NO WATER !! I noticed the engine starting to over heat and shut it all down. My first thought was the new aftermarket impeller I put in last summer was no good . So I pull it apart and it looks good and I start thinking its a issue with the plunger fake a lake set up so I went and got a new fake a lake a new thermostat and for good measure an impeller kit to keep in the boat . ( always better safe then sorry right) I replaced the thermostat thinking it might be slamming shut from the cold hose water or just stuck shut from being original so with last years impeller still in the pump . ( trying to be a cheap ass and get more hours out of the fairly new impeller) I hooked it all up again and still no water flow . At this point I'm thinking restriction or blockage some where . I do run the delta and would not be surprised if there was seaweed or some crap causing blockage . Remember at this time I did not replace the impeller yet only the T-stat but figured even if the impeller is bad the fake a lake should still flow/push water through the engine . Well it would not flow through . At this time I'm pulling hoses and flushing water back from the impeller pump to the pick up to make sure there was no blockage in the water intake . No blockage . Then I'm a little bewildered and impeller pump comes back off and decide its time to look at the oil cooler which is first in line after the impeller pump for blockage . Well F**k me there was half of an old impeller stuck in there .( not from when I've owned the boat mind you ) I dig it all out and put everything back together and turn on the hose fire it up and still no flow . Now I'm thinking maybe I should have installed the new impeller thinking its just lost its suction ability . At this time I pulled the hose off the Vdrive coming from the through hull water intake on the bottom of the boat and turned on the fake a lake and its struggling to even push water up the hose to the Vdrive. Now for a fake a lake to work does it rely on suction from the impeller pump to help pull water up into the engine ? After I determined the fake a lake wasn't pushing enough water into the engine I shove the garden hose into the fitting at the Vdrive which fit pretty snug and was kinda cool . I tuned on the water fired up the engine and now its flowing well the engines running and not getting hot with the hose hooked up that way . I think I'm going to replace the impeller and dunk it in the water and fire it up and see what happens figuring the force from sitting in the water will supply positive water flow to the impeller and eliminate the fake lake being fart of the problem. So my questions are...



1. Should I just replace the impeller for good measure ?

2. Does the fake a lake rely on impeller suction to help pull water into engine ?

3. Do you gurus think the impeller running almost dry on the first start up ruined the suction ability of the new impeller even if its still all in one piece ?

4. Could it be just not sucking well from being in the boat all winter and the petals being folded over?

5. Should I rig up a system that allows me to hook the garden hose directly at the Vdrive instead of the stupid fake a lake ?

Koolaid 04-19-2019 9:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CALIV210 (Post 1988147)

1. Should I just replace the impeller for good measure ?

2. Does the fake a lake rely on impeller suction to help pull water into engine ?

3. Do you gurus think the impeller running almost dry on the first start up ruined the suction ability of the new impeller even if its still all in one piece ?

4. Could it be just not sucking well from being in the boat all winter and the petals being folded over?

5. Should I rig up a system that allows me to hook the garden hose directly at the Vdrive instead of the stupid fake a lake ?

1. How long did the engine run while dry? See #4

2. It pushes water into the engine and produces suction.

3. It could glaze over the rubber and glaze the inside surface of the housing.

4. My guess is the impeller was installed wrong. The folds were installed folded the wrong direction.

5. Well worth it and not too difficult do do. what boat do you have? There was a complete setup on Tigeowners classifieds page with a strainer for cheap.

TomH 04-19-2019 9:21 AM

First off, what engine do you have. I only ask because there's certain vintages of PCM engines where the pump can be installed backwards, and it won't pump (not sure if this may have happened after you reassembled after clearing your blockage).

On to your questions:

1. It's never a bad idea to swap in a new impeller. I like tossing in a new one in the spring, but if you do use the same one, it's a good idea to pull it from the pump during the winter, otherwise the vanes can take a pretty good set.

2. Fake-a-lakes won't always have enough pressure (before leaking out the plunger) to push through a raw water pump that's not drawing. Generally, they'll need the pump to prime up and help draw the water. Rather than a fake-a-lake, I prefer to plumb a valve and tee into the intake - then I can do a direct hose connection to the intake, and not worry about the plunger falling off.

3. From your description of where your blockage was (after the raw water pump), it doesn't sound like your pump was necessarily running dry, but rather not able to push any water into the engine. That being said, running an impeller dry for any period of time tends to kill them.

4. It could have a good set to it from being unused for a few months and be contributing. Again, I'd just swap it out to knock it off the list. Also possible that the impeller hub separated from the rubber and it's just spinning the hub.

5. See #2, plumbing in a flush line on the intake is easy and much more reliable than a fake-a-lake.

To Koolaid's comment about the impeller being installed wrong - that's not possible. While you can install it with the vanes initially in the wrong direction, as soon as the pump spins it will flip the vanes over to the correct orientation.

CALIV210 04-19-2019 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koolaid (Post 1988151)
1. How long did the engine run while dry? See #4

2. It pushes water into the engine and produces suction.

3. It could glaze over the rubber and glaze the inside surface of the housing.

4. My guess is the impeller was installed wrong. The folds were installed folded the wrong direction.

5. Well worth it and not too difficult do do. what boat do you have? There was a complete setup on Tigeowners classifieds page with a strainer for cheap.

1. the engine long enough to see the gauge start getting hot . I was watching for water out of the exhaust and wathcing the gauge closely because I am always paranoid about the FAL.

2. That's what I thought. I think it wasn't creating enough suction

3. Thats exactly what I am thinking as well .

4. the impeller was definitely not installed wrong . As I used the boat after it was installed . I usually change then every spring but this one was installed towards the end of last summer and I was trying to be cheap . I know stupid right .

5. the boat is a Sanger V210 with a merc MAG MPI 350 in it

CALIV210 04-19-2019 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomH (Post 1988153)
First off, what engine do you have. I only ask because there's certain vintages of PCM engines where the pump can be installed backwards, and it won't pump (not sure if this may have happened after you reassembled after clearing your blockage).

On to your questions:

1. It's never a bad idea to swap in a new impeller. I like tossing in a new one in the spring, but if you do use the same one, it's a good idea to pull it from the pump during the winter, otherwise the vanes can take a pretty good set.

2. Fake-a-lakes won't always have enough pressure (before leaking out the plunger) to push through a raw water pump that's not drawing. Generally, they'll need the pump to prime up and help draw the water. Rather than a fake-a-lake, I prefer to plumb a valve and tee into the intake - then I can do a direct hose connection to the intake, and not worry about the plunger falling off.

3. From your description of where your blockage was (after the raw water pump), it doesn't sound like your pump was necessarily running dry, but rather not able to push any water into the engine. That being said, running an impeller dry for any period of time tends to kill them.

4. It could have a good set to it from being unused for a few months and be contributing. Again, I'd just swap it out to knock it off the list. Also possible that the impeller hub separated from the rubber and it's just spinning the hub.

5. See #2, plumbing in a flush line on the intake is easy and much more reliable than a fake-a-lake.

To Koolaid's comment about the impeller being installed wrong - that's not possible. While you can install it with the vanes initially in the wrong direction, as soon as the pump spins it will flip the vanes over to the correct orientation.


1. I agree I just hate the cost and was trying to be a cheap a$$. like you I think the vanes setting like that all winter didnt help the situation much

2. I feel the same way about the fake a lake and how the raw water pump works . Im going to plumb a valve and T into the intake just like you said I hate the uncertainty of the FAL. Although I have been using one for years .lol

3. I feel like it wasn't completely dry when I pulled it there was a small amount of water it but it wasn't like steaming or really hot so I think it might have been flowing a really small about of water . I also agree that blockage in the oil cooler killed the whole dang pump and its ability to suck and circulate

4. Im swapping it out today after work . I did turn the pulley while I had the impeller pump out and the could see the impeller moving inside but maybe I couldnt turn it fast enough to slip the hub either way its going by by

Stazi 04-19-2019 10:34 AM

If you drained the block completely when it was winterised you can get into a situation where there no water at the thermostat from the hot side, so it wonít ever open. You have to have water through the engine for it to work.
Thatís why I always fill mine with antifreeze when I winterize it.
If you unhook one of the hoses leading into the block and fill it with water before starting (if the block was drained), then you wonít run into that issue.

CALIV210 04-19-2019 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stazi (Post 1988158)
If you drained the block completely when it was winterised you can get into a situation where there no water at the thermostat from the hot side, so it wonít ever open. You have to have water through the engine for it to work.
Thatís why I always fill mine with antifreeze when I winterize it.
If you unhook one of the hoses leading into the block and fill it with water before starting (if the block was drained), then you wonít run into that issue.

I did not put antifreeze in the block as we don't have temps cold enough to freeze the engine where I live . But thank you for the reply .

CALIV210 04-30-2019 1:59 AM

Update: Took the boat out and all was well until I made a hard turn at speed and the damn low oil pressure warning came on . I shut it down looked at the engine and checked the oil it was a little on the low side . But I didnt think low enough to cause a sloshing issue where the pump lost oil supply for a second . I checked both oil sender/sensor wires and made sure they were connected one was a little lose probably from me being all over the boat trying to fix the cooling system issues and then started it back up and it was immediately fine no warning buzzer. I pulled into a cove and threw out the anchor that I hooked to the bow eye and watched it come loose and go to the bottom of the lake . The water was nice and clear and I could see the stupid little spring loaded latch was sprung open as it disappeared into the abyss ..F**K ME !!! lol I did add another qt of oil for good measure and everything went well the rest of the day .


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