Vegas
 

I hope none of you were in Vegas for that concert. What is wrong with people these days? Just absolutely horrible.

My brother works vegas nights (luckily Sundays are slow and he wasn't close enough to the festival to be in harm's way). Terrible.

I had two friends that were at the concert. Luckily both are unharmed.

I have neighbors that where there. Luckily they are safe. It hits home because they have two small children. What a F@#$ing coward.

Damn. We're staying at Mandela Bay next month.

ridiculous. sounded like a full auto weapon.

Sounds like he converted the weapons to auto. Almost 60 dead now and over 500 injured.

Does have anyone have any more info on the girl running around telling everyone to get out they're all gonna die 45 min before the shooting started?

My boss was there. His friend was shot and sustained minor injuries. Crazy!

Glad to hear minor and not hospitalization. Emergency departments were at capacity.

Amazing reports from University Medical with Level 1 Trauma
https://www.facebook.com/FOX13TampaB...type=2&theater

So sad, so predictable. Even sadder, this will change nothing.

predictable?

There has been 274 multiple shootings so far this year, major ones like this seem to happen every year or so. What strategy is being used to change the environment where these things keep happening? Nothing. It will continue until something changes in society which stops producing angry unstable people and the ready access to guns.

There is just no will to tackle it, the problem is too deep rooted in society.

Mark my words, this will happen again within 12 months or so.

Don't get me wrong my heart goes out to you guys but it all just seems so pointless

Talk about having a negative attitude, you can't just give up. There are good people in this world.

**deeply rooted in humans** Massive twisted sick acts of violence are part of human history. How do we change that is the real question.

It doesn't take much to see that these are becoming more and more common, and therefore predictable.

Making them harder to carry out would help.

What was the hardest part? I would say pulling the trigger.. If you can stomach that single moment right there than I'd say the ways and means would be cake no matter what.

Cake? That can be disputed. You can use vehicles which have been proven quite deadly, bombs(usually don't get nearly as many people), knives, not even close. If we made it harder for people to get guns it would cut down on stuff like this. All the guns the guy purchased were completely legal.

60 deaths and 500 injuries is not "cake" to pull off if you don't have a fully automatic weapon.

And you're exactly right, pulling the trigger was the hardest part, because he just went into a store and bought all the **** he needed to pull it off. Watch a youtbe video on how to convert for full auto and you're good for home grown mass killings.

Apparently this guy didn't care much for the rule of law.

Thewakeisreal, are you in favor for the war on drugs?

My view on gun control is pretty clear but I'd like to point out that mass shootings are not the problem but the symptom. Happy people don't shoot other people.

1. Start investing more money in mental health services
2. Start teaching life skills/mindfulness in the school system
3. Start taking equality of opportunity seriously
4. Start being nicer to each other.

I'm not. I think dems and Clintons ****ed that up royally. I am for the war on pharmaceuticals. Most of the issue is from pharmaceutical companies giving out prescribed heroin for a broken wrist.

Just like that, it should be harder to go buy guns. You should pass psychological exams every year, you don't need a ****ing military rifle either. I'm not completely anti-gun, there's plenty of fine gun owners, but you guys should want stricter gun control so guys like this don't make you look bad.

Oh yes. I agree with that. These will keep happening. I understood your post to suggest that shooting from a hotel suite was predictable.

What else can you do? They guy had no record of criminal history so he likely would have passed a background check. His family seemed to think he was normal. People snap. Always have always will.

I firmly believe no form of gun control would ever work. It's the silliest logic ever. Use laws to stop people from breaking laws? All you will ever get from gun control is cooperation from good people and the disarming them as a result, while criminals keep their guns and acquire whatever they want illegally, and you now have criminals more well armed than the good people.

The possession of military style rifles is another subject for me and a lot of people don't agree with it. Definitely.... not everyone should have one. But the world is turning into a crazy place so I'll be keeping mine for sure.

This guy found a new and more efficient way to mass murder. I worry that he just showed every other psycho out there the best way to kill a lot of people. Literally shooting fish in a barrel with as much time as he needed. Now one could touch him, and no one could shoot back even! I don't know what they can do to prevent stuff like this from happening again, but I'll think twice before being locked in a confined area with thousands of people. I frequent Vegas often and have been to concerts at Mandalay 3 times. This one is scary for me. Bullet proof windows on hotels?

Not that silly, they reformed in Ausy 20 years ago, halted mass shootings and reversed gun crime climbing by 2.5% per year to falling by 1.5% per year and reduced gun suicide by 75%.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...es-study-finds

The guy had a plane and pilot's license. How many people would have died if he came in full speed Kamikaze?

shooter
 

No bullet proof windows, too expensive, much cheaper to just put a sniper in the best position to take out mass murderers who start shooting. I am not worried about going to football games with 100,000 people, because there are several towers, that would be great positions for snipers, but they are all patrolled by police.

You anti gun nuts act like he just went & bought a stock pile the day before. It's been years of buying & probably had no intention of using them in this fashion during those times. It seems rather obvious at this point between what was on his FB page, the pics of him in a pussy hat, who the targets were he had an agenda. One that is egged on by the left out of their blind hatred for the opposition. We've allowed calls to violence for political gain for far too long. Conservatives sitting on facebook with their "we got all the guns, what they gonna do" bull****. The new ANTIFA stuff. We have a people problem, not a gun problem.

I don't know anything about Australia, but I do know they banned guns. And I've seen conflicting reports. Some say crime and violence did NOT go down, only the use of guns decreased. But who knows what is really accurate.

I do know that criminals here aren't going to give up their guns. There are already laws that say they can't have them, and that they can't kill people, so how would a new law requiring them to turn guns in suddenly compel them to comply? There is also no equivalent to the second amendment in Australia, so there's a deep rooted cultural difference. Conservatives keep there guns more for defense against government and war as much as self defense against criminals.

That's a pretty good idea.

Bulletproof windows? I don't see how someone can reasonably say that what we need is more bulletproof windows.

Same goes the the "mental illness" argument. This dude wasn't mentally ill. Mentally ill peeps don't manage to own properties in multiple states, a $50K+ gun collection, a plane, etc (he appears to be "self made," not a John DuPont). No way no how he'd have failed a mental health exam.

How long before we just all have bulletproof trenchcoats?

Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.

If it helps you sleep at night to say that he's ANTIFA (lol) or ISIS or whatever then OK. But someday we'll have to acknowledge that firearms can be dangerous in the hands of humans. If we can outlaw lawn darts, why can't we regulate guns? I know I know, lawn darts aren't "arms" for second amendment purposes.

My own personal guess (and it's purely just that), given that he appeared to be shooting from a pretty pimp room (those two smashed windows are way farther apart than I've ever had in any room) and that he's a regular gambler, is that he got in too deep somewhere, and it wouldn't surprise me if it were at the Mandalay. I'm guessing that the room was comped. Zero facts, just speculating. But people do funny things when they think there's no way out. But I'd certainly put a $20 on him having an outstanding marker there.

You seriously dismissed completely plausible reasons & boiled it down to the guns fault & his gambling. He is a mutli millionaire who according to the articles just started within the last week betting 30k a day. That doesn't equal anywhere near the mans networth. This was premeditated over weeks of planning. He's been in the room for over a week & was slowly suit-casing in the weapons. This wasn't spur of the moment & it wasn't due to gambling debts. LOL all you want, you're just as wrong as the LOL you tossed out there.

Confirmed; He booked that specific suite, checked in Thur & was "utilizing some of his GF's identifications". Call it what you want, it wasn't a snap because of gambling debts. We may never know the truth, but it is clear this was premeditated & planned.

No was was "reasonably" suggesting bullet proof windows, bud. You took that a little too literally.

You can't regulate guns. And if you somehow managed to take them all away from everyone, crazy's would drive trucks into crowds like they do in the UK. Bombs, Airplanes......whatever.

No worries, wasn't you in particular on the BP windows... I heard it multiple times yesterday.

Can you give an example of something we CAN successfully regulate? Drugs? Murder? Rape? Moonshine? Just because criminals continue to break laws isn't really a good argument for anarchy.

And regulation doesn't mean taking guns away from everyone. I agree that's an unreasonable goal.

bump stocks and trigger cranks seem like pretty low hanging fruit for regulation at the moment tho.

Not a week... since Thursday.

I never said it wasn't premeditated. In fact my implication was quite the opposite. You don't get big markers overnight. 30k a day for the last week, OK.. My Q is how up or down is he over the last 12 mos? Casinos can be very accommodating to high rollers.

I totally do agree that it was premeditated.

My "social" liberal friend! I don't think mass shootings should come down to a right vs left problem because they're so far off the edge it doesn't matter, but I'm pretty sure right wing extremism is on par or wins that debate. You're already trying to make it out like this guy is some crazy liberal with no proof. If he is, then **** him, if he is a Trump guy, **** him. What does it matter? I don't have blind hatred for anybody, just as I don't think you do. People who commit mass shootings are so far gone that political motives don't come into play IMO.

The fact that he was allowed to "stock pile" enough guns for a militia is a ****ing problem and shouldn't be allowed. You want a hand gun, go for it. You want a rifle, you get tested every year for psychological issues. What in the **** do you need a high capacity magazine for except murdering people? Seriously.

We have such a mental health shortage in our country there wouldn't be anyone available for the check in. Ever try to see a shrink? 12 weeks out if they are even taking new patients. I find it amazing that you use graphs like that then argue that the actions of a few should effect gun owners with a safe full that have done no harm to anyone. People who commit mass murder were almost always motivated by something, be it politics, hate, racism, etc. About the only incident I can think of is the whack job at Sandy Hook. But he was so damn medicated, and dare I say, there probably shouldn't have been fire arms in that house with that kids mental health history. But your wish for mental health exams won't work either. This guy would've passed & beyond that who is the one that dictates what level of crazy you can be at? Anyone whos tried an anti depressant? You can't have your CC in Colo if you have a medical pot card. That is silly to paint smokers with that broad brush but that is exactly what we will end up with. I still don't get how people like you will argue there's nothing to be done about terrorism without giving up freedom but for some reason the blanket answer to shootings is always to take the guns. Mathematically speaking there are millions of guns out there & only .0001% get used in these crimes. I see your point & agree on some more common sense laws, but I sure as hell don't want someone telling me I can't keep filling my safe with rifles. I enjoy shooting them, collecting them, building them up & I along with countless others would never commit such depravity.

Well hopefully we get some real answers.

New report is he was checked in under his GF's name & he wired 100k to the Philippines last week. I don't think this had anything to do with gambling debts.

Yeah like I said pure pure pure speculation on my part (but based on being a life long NV resident who has known more than a few degenerate gamblers).

If I'm right I think we'll know pretty soon. MGM (owner of Mandalay) is public so I don't think they'd just be able to quietly rip up the marker like the old days.

Pistols are used to kill way more people than the rifle you're so upset with. The media has done a great job with that one. :banghead:

And why do I need an AR with a high cap magazine? To protect mine from the criminals that already have them and the violent protestors that may attempt to threaten my family. Mine rides along on every family road trip. Don't like them? Don't get one.

In France last August a terrorist drove a truck into a crowd of people and killed 86 people. How can people not understand that the guns don't matter.

I truly don't think you would commit a crime as such as that, but being able to stock pile weapons like this guy makes the crime absolutely devastating when somebody who WILL commit that crime pulls the trigger. Like I said, keep your gun, but I don't think you need a safe full of rifles. When that amendment was put into the constitution I don't think the forefathers ever dreamed up a scenario where a guy could shoot 600 people by himself. That was musket times.

Just take a look at America vs other countries and the gun violence vs gun ownership. You're really saying there is no correlation between the amount of guns in the country and the amount of gun violence?

I completely agree with the pistols, but for the most part those are homicides engaged between 2 people and not mass murders. I'm not all that worried about a nut job shooting up a crowd with a hand gun. That mandalay bay thing would be quite different with a guy in a window and a 9mm.

How often have you heard of a story where a guy with an AR protected his family? I can see a concealed carry helping out, but I just don't hear these heroic stories of people taking down bad guys with AR's. Mainly people have AR's because they're badass and enjoy them.

Prolly because of the 89 shot at eagles of death metal terrorist attack in france in 2015?

I totally see your point (that terrorism is unpredictable, and that bad folks will improvise). But to carry your argument to its logical conclusion shouldn't you be arguing that we should get rid of CDL licenses so that I can get a semi tractor too because a terrorist might have one?

As most of know the more guns less crimes. Who is the right wing crackpot that states this?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybe.../#45d387db3f7c

One question. I have heard the videos of the shooting. It didn't really sound like more guns mattered. He would shoot a bunch, pause and repeat. If he had one rifle or 16 does it matter as long as he had enough ammo to reload?

And if we come from it at a rational rather then a emotional standpoint what new laws would have stopped this guy?

AP is reporting semi-auto with a bump stock (legal mod).

Very strange that after 24 hours the left is proclaiming that there is no way this guy had anything to do with ISIS , and after 1 year they can't come to the conclusion that Donald Trump did not collude with the Russians.

If this had anything to do with ISIS Trump would be all over it. You should know that.

There is no reason why anyone should be able to legally obtain a bump stock. None.

You can't make a law to stop an individual but you can start to change the enviroment that creates these types of individuals with regulation and funding/focus. The amount of resources the US spend of anti terror relative to gun violence is unbalanced. If you scroll up you will find my idea of 4 points to get started with. Gun control isn't on it, just because socially and politically it's not a choice you guys have, even if it's the most logical and quickest acting.

But like I said, illustrated by the bickering on this thread alone you can tell nothing will change, these events are going to keep coming, probably at a faster and faster rate. Get used to them or agitate for change, that's your two options as i see it.

Oh, and yes events like this are loud and noisy and dominate the news for a week or so but in terms of numbers its tiny compared to the number of people killed cumulatively by guns over the year. This event is literally a drop in the bucket. So while you are thinking about bullet proof glass and snipers guns are quietly killing you unimpeded in the back ground.

I don't. I think we have a problem where violence is glorified. What's odd to me on this one is as of now, no manifesto, no links, no statements about why he did this. Most people who do these things make it known why. There is so much wrong with this I am not even ruling out conspiracy at this point. Our forefathers, if they had automatic weapons, would most certainly be for them considering the long bloody fight to make us a free nation. They wouldn't assume these mass murders because weren't all ****ed up like they are now. There is no value on human life in this country & both sides openly discussing killing each other on facebook & other platforms over politics. The gun isn't the problem.

I agree with Ralph, I think the people of this country have spoken that this is just part of our culture. Two weeks from now nothing will have changed and this will be swept under the rug. We'll shrug our collective shoulders and reset the "It has been [X] number of days since our last mass shooting" sign.

The left in this country thinks they are doing what's right. Their masters on the other hand are straight evil & love their useful idiots.

As an example, let's compare how you guys do relative to other countries. Check the stats on hand guns. Either you guys just really like killing each other or access to hand guns has some effect on the rate you kill each other/yourselves. You decide, are you terrible people or are you in a terrible enviroment.

Okay so lets pretend everyone has turned in their guns. Now we only have to deal with the illegal guns that are left over. Then what? The minds & hearts have not been changed. There are still going to be murderous people out there & one happens to run over 100 most of you going to argue "well there's nothing that can be done about that". Again, the gun isn't the problem. Humans are.

It's absurd to say "well it's just gonna happen anyway." How about if it were to happen once every 25 years instead of once a year? Would that be worth some changes to our approach to guns and/or mental health?

Supposedly the terrorist used this bump fire method.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/U7DTjSla-O8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Your meme leaves out a good majority of our gun deaths are suicide. Most of the violent gun crime occurs in cities with tough gun laws in place. Again, it's the humans, not the gun. The gun is just a tool. Like most leftists.

Maybe 50-100 years down the road things will be different from gun control. You straight up can't argue the correlation between gun deaths in America and the amount of guns in America.

Exactly. He broke all the laws. We have laws in place already. Taking the emotional aspect part out of the equation to prevent mass murder. Your so called logical answer would be gun control. Don't forget that the law abiding gun owners are not doing this. In fact more legal guns have brought down crimes. This guy spent alot of money and alot of planning with the best logistical point to commit this murder. I know it is very sad and we all are mourning about the deaths and injuries hat occurred. I do not like guns at all, and i am sure there would be alot less legal guns if the government would do more to the criminals who use them.

So are you saying Americans hy nature are the most violent humans in the OECD? Why? Genetics?

What gun laws did he break prior to this incident?

Lets start with murder. Are lawful gun owners going around killing people.

Fine, take 60% of the figure, your still at 4,000. Does that change the perspective at all?

Yes, the gun is just a tool. But as far as tools go is extremely effective and efficent at killing people, if you take the ready access to that tool away the total damage will go down just due to efficiency loss.

Yes, yes they are. Do you know that you are twice as likely to be killed by a gun by a law abiding American by accident in the US than you are murdered in NZ by any means, gun or otherwise.

You don't often hear about a guy shooting people from the window of a hotel either, but anything can happen.

Also....go look at what the US considers a "Mass shooting". Last time I looked it was anything more than two people. So when it comes to US stats, the term Mass Shooting doesn't always mean a lot.

Not murder my friend, but that can happen and if we had the same population your country would be twice as likely to be murdered, and that is by a country that has no guns. What kind of sick ****s live in New Zealand?

It took the gunman 10 minutes. The took the truck drive a few seconds to kill even more.

But again, criminals will never give up their guns so there's that over arching fact that defeats an argument for more gun control imo.

Reading comprehension problems? No one has ever claimed he murdered anyone prior to this incident. It's pretty much a Capt Obvious statement to say that you're not breaking the law when you are obeying the law.

the bump fire stock is something I always saw as a joke. It was designed as way for yahoos to experience something close to fully automatic in a highly inacurate way. This guy unfortunately found a deadly application for it. I see these going away soon.

What this means likely is the shooter did not have "$25,000 hard to get automatic weapon" as the news is reporting. Because if you had a fully auto weapon, you wouldn't waste your time for a bump fire configuration.

I was taking per capita numbers genius. Total murder rate is 5x higher in US relative to NZ.

And your original question made no sense, murders by law abiding citizens are zero because they are law abiding.

Is that why we have no laws about drug control?

Just seems odd to me that the common view is laws don't work. Ok, why have laws about anything then?

Also everybody seems to be totally on board that internationally it's fine to outlaw North Korea from having nukes but locally you can't limit guns. It's the same principal, just scaled up.

And law abiding gun owners are following the laws. He did not. There are already laws in place . We do not need new laws to prevent murder. So in turn what new laws could you possibly put in place that are not already there and not infringe on the 2nd .

Ralph you seem like a really nice guy. Please come on over to the U.S. and speak to some of our gang bangers. Have a beer with Antifa. Sleep with a some gender fluid soul.

The guy apparently was a law abiding gun owner up until this incident. Saying that law obeying gun owners don't do this is a pointless argument. The problem is the ubiquitous presence of guns in our society. Far too many to eliminate at this point regardless of how much legislating from the bench the SC does, as it did in 2008 to give you an individual right. Since this guy was law biding right up until the act it's likely that enhanced laws regarding background checks and mental issues would have not done anything to prevent this. But the individual right pretty much limits preventing mentally ill people from getting guns even after we know they have problems.