90s direct drive ski boats...
I know this has been discussed a thousand times but I'm kind of mislead... will a direct drive create a respectable wake for wakeboarding such as a mc205 or a sport nautique? I know a v drive is more for wakeboarding but that's not an option right now. Any Direct drive boat owners, please fill me in. Thanks
|
2 Attachment(s)
I had a 2000 MB sport DD. It had 550lbs of ballast built in and I ran a 400lbs fat sac on either side of the dog house. It's still put up a pretty impressive wake with 3-4 other guys in the boat. You also need to remember that byerly and a handful of other pros invented the majority of tricks out their on DD. Sure a Vdrive will or can put out a bigger wake but it's not to say a DD can't do it either. 99% of people with a newer Vdrive really don't need the size of wake they are trying to ride. Most could probably benefit from riding a smaller wake.....but they won't.
Nevermind the pink dress.....It was my stag.lol. Wake behind my old DD. |
Yes if you get one of the right ones. I had a 1995 sport nautique and now have a 1994 ski nautique closed bow. Wakeboarding is my number one sport behind it and I love the wake (with 2200 lbs - 1000 back and 600 on each side of the engine).
|
Thanks for the quick replies. I feel like I can maintain a direct drive a lot easier than a v drive
Dave, thanks for the pics. Ur wake looks nice and meaty Eric, how was ur sport nautique? That's what I'm leaning towards ...reliability , wake, etc? I love this forum by the way |
I had a 94 MC 205 DD. We put 1500hrs on that boat, many great riders in our area thought my son Mac many tricks behind that boat. Yes, easier to maintain in many respects so just find the weighting ya like for the wake ya want and make memories and enjoy the boat w family and friends. A family in Michigan has out another 400hrs on it, now has 2600hrs and going strong.
|
What About the resale value on direct drives? I'm looking at a 20 year old boat and most boats that's age are going for 12-17k.... are they even selling?
|
Also, would it be wise to pay for a pre buy inspection on a 20 year old boat?
|
If it was me I would do your research and make sure to get one without wood stringers. I have seen so many people spending a whole season replacing rotten wood I would never want to go through that. I know in the late 80s mastercraft went to all fiberglass. I don't remember the exact year. I see them pop up for sale here in the PNW for 7-15k depending on condition and hours. Getting upholstery done is a $5-7k job if you pay a shop (at least that's what I was quoted). I never had a serious problem with the mechanics of my 89 prostar 190. Had ~900 hours on it when I sold it.
|
I'm sure it's been mentioned before, but depending on what year you're looking at, the hull of the 205 you mentioned might be the same hull as the original Xstar and later X2s. We've ridden behind a DD MC205 and liked it so much we ended up buying one. With a 750lbs bag on either side of the dog house you can have a pretty good wake. If you're a beginner, it'll probably be a long time before your skills outgrow the boat (if ever).
Here's a short clip of me riding behind it: https://instagram.com/p/441J6ZvJJG/ |
What's your budget?
|
Nice Ryan. Wake looks Ab all I need. I am coming
From an inboard outboard. Outgrew that thing and it was a huge money pit. Hopefully an inboard won't be that bad. My budget is around 13k |
Quote:
|
At that budget your going to have to cast a large net and be willing to travel. I'm assuming you're looking at open bows given your OP. With that in mind, Boats that I know will put up a good wake include MC205's, Sport Nautiques, Supra Sunsport (I believe curved windshield has no wood), and another you could look for wihch is uncommon is a Hydrodyne Grand Sport.
If you end up looking at boats with PCM engines, keep an eye out on the 94ish engines, as the Protec electronic ignition on many of those is known for failure (and is obsolete from a parts standpoint), but can be retro'd to a distributor (which many have). The direct drives are a bit easier to work on, mostly from an access stand-point, otherwise, everything's about the same between a direct and v, aside from the actual v-drive unit. |
1996 and newer 205DD hull =hull of original Xstar, X2. I had a 2000 205DD, and it was a great boat(better interior than the 90s models) It required weight but when you did it right the wake was fantastic. The boat also skied very well too. I believe it was AWSA certified for tournaments.
|
SN2001 owner here. Mine is an 80's direct drive so I can only give you that experience as far as ownership but I've ridden behind a lot of 90's direct drives (especially Sport Nautiques and DD Mastercrafts). For wakeboarding, they can be really nice with the right size and placement of aftermarket ballast. Modern boats have surpassed them, but the wake I can generate for the cost I've put in is fine with me. Where my boat and a lot of other respectable wakeboarding from the 80's and 90's really fall short is surfing. With enough patience, ballast, and a decent driver you can get a surfable wake on something like a Ski or Sport Nautique, but it is no comparison to what even entry level new boats can do. I'm not big into surfing so for me that's not an issue. If it is a big deal to you, then just be aware of the limitations.
Tom is right about the Protec. It's garbage. The retro kit is about $550 to $650 at most places online so factor that in if you're looking at a boat that still has it. If you find a Protec in the wild still, you can probably snag it up cheap since it won't be running right at this point. I can't compare general ease of repair to a V-drive, but my Nautique is far easier to work on than any outboard, I/O (or even car) that I've ever owned. I personally wouldn't be too concerned about wooden stringers as long as you thoroughly inspect them before buying. |
I actually have the Protec, and mine still runs well, but I know I'll be swapping it over when the time comes, and knew that going into it 5 years ago. I also have the TBI version, so I get tagged twice since I'll also have to retro mine to a carb when the time comes.
|
I have this for sale , it's a little outside of your budget but if you are looking to spend a little more for a V-drive it might be a decent fit for you.
http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/boa/5975829248.html |
A 96 or newer MC205 would be a decent boat for you. Like others have pointed out, its the same hull as the original Xstar. I had a 99 as my first inboard and it was pretty good boat. It had a really nice wake when you threw some weight into it, and it was ok to learn to surf with as well. I also think they're one of the nicest looking boats from that late 90s era. The Malibu Sunsetters from the late 90s would be decent too. A friend has had one for at least 15 years and even though he could easily afford a brand new boat he refuses to upgrade because his old direct drive does everything he needs.
|
I had a '93 Malibu Sunsetter, could really get a nice wake with ballast. To me the difference between a v-drive and dd wake is not as much as it's made out to be. the difference between them is the fuel tank and engine has swapped places, and while a full fuel tank is not as heavy as an engine, you can make up the difference with ballast. To me the major advantage of the V-drive is interior layout.
|
Direct drive ski boat it is. Now just finding one within driving distance. I can't buy a boat blind without putting my eyes on the boat much less a water test.. thanks everyone for all the responses and information. Anyone from the southeast region? For some reason I really want a boat with the gt40 engine even tho my last boat have the mercruiser 350 and it was bullet proof. It actually ran under water for a few miles (very bad day$$$&) but I can't be picky with my little budget. I have a guy I work wth wanting to sell me his 98 mc 205. but he is firm on his price which I feel is too much considering the condition of the interior.
Should I stay away from boats with new engines?(poor winterization I'm guessing) How reliable are the transmissions in these boats? Sorry if my questions are kind of vague |
With the 1995 sport nautique, wake was good, I started to really figure out the wake around the time I sold it. It has the same hull as the old SAN 210 and my 1994 ski nautique is basically the SAN 210 hull shortened by two feet. I learned the nautique hulls really like back weight (minimal <500 lbs up front - too much up front causes a nasty trough). I had the sport for 4 years. Reliability - Nautiques are very reliable, although I had an issue where gas had been sitting in the tank for two years when I bought it. Burned out one of the fuel pumps, went thru a couple fuel filters, and ended up needing the gas tank cleaned. All in all that took 2-3 years to figure out living in Minnesota - frustrating problems with such a short season. The EFI on boats/cars seems to leave the possibility open to more things that can go wrong (and tougher to identify). Carbureted engines are a little more straight forward mechanically.
|
http://dallas.craigslist.org/ftw/boa/5965680915.html Not crazy about the tower, but if you could stretch your budget a little bit, that one looks like a solid option.
|
THis is the one I wanna get. Any and all inputs are appreciated...https://orlando.craigslist.org/boa/5956544710.html
|
My cousin had a Sport from the late 90's that I spent considerable time behind. It puts out a nice wake with about 1600lbs of ballast. He had it arranged at the sides of the engine and in the bow, but I'm not sure in what proportions. It also drives fairly comfortably with that much weight on board, but I don't think I'd personally push it too much more than that.
|
Quote:
|
I have a 05 Sky/Ski Supreme and it puts out a nice wake with stock 600# ballast and extra #450 bad behind dog house and 3-4 others plus ice chest. Our nephew has not problems jumping the wake at 60 feet.
|
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Sanger DLX20. Same hull as a V210 but in a direct drive.
|
Or the Sanger DX or DXII or SE...All direct drives that at 20 throw a nice wake from the modified V hull with Delta pad.
|
Believe it or not. I have never seen a Sanger here in the southeast...
|
We know...Most of them get bought before the ever can get out of California
|
I figured Sanger was out west ... I want that crisp nautique wake. Spent a lot of time behind a 2000 SAN with only human ballast and it was perfect
|
1987 IIRC for MC to go to fiber stringers
Sport Nautique looks good |
With your budget stick with Correct Craft (aka natique). They are the best built in that era by far. Spend a little more if you have to. It will save you money in the long run. Most of the boats from the 90s were pretty crappy by modern standards.
|
What's your budget? Inboards start around $5k-$10k, that gets you a SN2001 or 80s-92 Supra so far as a decent wake. It'll also get you an 80s Malibu or MC Prostar 190 or a few others that are not worth entertaining. They are low freeboard light boats that are better suited to slalom.
I have an '89 Saltare (23') and I like the wake and the boat overall. Gotta be careful about stringer condition or get it cheap and be able to restore it yourself. Supra went composite in '93 (round windshield) but the hulls stayed the same through the late 90s. You'd be looking at a SunSport or Saltare. (Marauder/Rider/Pirata if you don't mind a closed bow, they generally go for less money). Sport Nautique, MC205 or composite Supra is next cheapest you'll find in the $10k-$15k range last I looked. If your budget is $15k-$20k it opens up a lot of options. Other deals pop up but those are what come to mind. When I was looking I wanted to keep it under $10k so SN2001, Supra SunSport/Saltare, or Sport Nautique was what I was mainly searching for. If you go old enough to be carbureted there really isn't anything complex or expensive to fail. The engines are simple and cheap to service and rebuild if needed. Transmissions are cheap and easy as well for any DD boat. I have no plans to replace mine, I really like the boat and when it eventually needs stringers I'll do that and probably do some built in ballast under the rear seat and bow along with some other modifications to get more storage space, or rather not lose any to ballast. Old is cool, I like what I have and I just don't care for newer boats. |
I've got a 1996 Mastercaft Prostar 205 for sale. I'm in Oklahoma. I bought it from a guy on here in Texas. Super clean boat with right around 600 hours.
|
|
1 Attachment(s)
98 mc 205 one hour away 700hours on the hull owner says 150 on the new engine. He says previous owner didn't winterize properly. I attempted to post a pic of the engine to see if any mastercraft gurus could identify the engine and any input as well... I am stoked on all the replies in this thread. I appreciate you. I'm sure you were once in my shoes.
|
I have a friend selling a 94 Prostar with tower. 800hrs. $13,900 is what he is asking. Boat is in Cave Springs AR.
|
carb'd chevy 350. looks good for its age. those valve covers are unique and may give some clues as to specs. at the end of the day, its a SBC 350. plenty of power, could run a lot of weight with the right prop. make sure it starts up and idles both hot and cold. if maintained, great motor.
yes, put about 700 hours on my MC with a ford 351w. I kinda miss my DD when it comes time for maintenance. |
One I would highly recommend is mid-90s Hydrodynes .... great wake with about 1200lbs in them.
Excuse the un-even wake / weight in the boat .... this was my first inboard, great shape, firm wake, and the hydrodynes had more freeboard vs many boats from that era. https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0...8a&oe=5934D013 https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0...33&oe=593D13B5 |
Is this the engine that came stock in a 98 pro star 205? I thought they were all EFI TBI CHEVY. 350s
|
xstars got EFI from what I can tell.
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/...ad.php?t=15198 would be easy to add a TBI kit if thats a sticking point. carbs work great on boats as they stay level most of the time. 'dynes were great boats too. |
So that engine I posted a pic of is a carb'd not EFI. Is that a deal breaker?
|
3 Attachment(s)
Late 90s Tige 2150's or better yet the 2000 22i (better helm) will put out great wakes for a d-drive for wake, surf, or slalom. This is my 22i with 900# in the trunk, all hidden. Long, smooth transitions with deceptive size on the wakeboard wakes. Near perfect shape with great power on the surf wakes. I don't run any ballast on the floor. Everything is in the trunk.
|
NO!
|
Nacho thanks for ur input. But fill me in!
|
no way of knowing if that engine is original without looking at hull and block #. some MCs came with EFI in 98, not sure if that one did. see teamtalk link.
a good running carb'd motor will run all day long, you can easily convert to TBI if you want to. "if it ain't broke...." comes to mind. may have better fuel economy from TBI but I wouldn't dump money into it just for that. If it starts, drive it. do hot/cold starts, launch it hard, all that jazz to make sure the carb is setup right. if the boats in good condition, runs well, fits your budget, buy the thing! Thats all I got! |
That is an efi motor in the picture, its TBI. The big square finned box on the front of the motor is the ECM, and it has a high pressure inline filter visible to the rear of the motor.
|
Thanks meathead! there ya go! put some $$ down on it.
|
Meathead and nacho, yes I am going
To check it out this weekend. So excited. Has perfect pass and a monster tower. Is a New engine on original tranny ok? |
its the original engine. how many hours?
tranny will be fine |
150 hours on new engine
|
Quote:
|
yep, MC had the edge in those years in several areas.
150 hrs is barely broken in. buy this thing yet? |
5 Attachment(s)
Well everyone. I AM A PROUD MASTERCRAFT OWNER! Thanks everyone for the responses. Went and picked up the boat today. I am speechless
|
Looks clean. Can't go wrong with a 205. I love owning a direct drive. Simple maintenance and throw some weight in the boat and wake is solid.
|
Congratulations
|
Looks good, just sold a '97 205. What are the two gauges? Perfect pass and GPS speedo?
|
Thanks I am happy with it. Yes speedo and perfect pass
|
Congrats! Looks awesome!
|
Congrats! That is a clean 205. That hull puts out a great wake with some weight. Perfect pass is definitely a bonus. Enjoy!
|
nice!!
|
Warm weather can't come fast enough... only thing I'm not sure about is the raw water pump has a little drip. Prob 5-7 drops a minute other than that , I am pretty happy. I believe this hull will put out a decent wake thanks again for all the comments and advice. I went ahead and bit the bullet
|
there's an o-ring that probably isn't seated down properly on the pump. would be a good idea to replace your impeller anyway, new o-ring too.
|
I'm probably just going to end up replacing the whole Johnson raw water pump as soon as I can find part number Also. What's the best ballast Weight configurations for direct drives ?
|
Old rule of thumb for direct drives was 2 to 1. Back to front. They require more rear weight without the engine back there.
|
Nice find. That thing looks clean.
Weight. 750's on each side of the engine as far back as they can go , and 600 in the nose and you're money |
oh man you shoulda went with the Masterbusangertique 201 ..hahahaha
Nice Master Craft I loved the simplicity of a direct drive boat . Cheers to many hours on the water !! |
Call discount inboard Marine on the pump. Inspect it, if the shafts is nice save a bunch of money and buy the rebuild kit. If the bearing is completely gone it may have damaged the shaft. Nice buy.
|
Swat guy. Which ballast bags u use in the bow ?
|
Quote:
|
What part of Mississippi are you going to be boating in?
I keep my boat in Kiln, MS on the Jordan River. |
Quote:
For surfing, look into these ghetto gates that stick on the side of the boat and you will be set. Also, if space is an issue, into lead wake as it can really help out for tight spaces. |
David Curtis. North east Mississippi on the tombigbee. Does the fat sack seat fit perfectly? Will a 750 lay down plush on the floor in the open bow?
|
I didn't wanna make a new thread, but I am loving the mastercraft. we have put almost a hundred hours on it without any problems and tinted the windows and a few tickets from the game warden. can anyone guide me on their rope length speeds and weight on their direct drives for wakeboarding? so far all I have used for weight was human ballast, rope length at 55 and speeds 19mph.... I want to get some ballast bags, I'm guessin id have to speed up to 20 mph, but if I weight it will the wake get better 65-70ft back? with no weight it, the wake isn't fun past 60 foot...
|
Nice, would love to see pictures with tinted windows and you riding. ... WTH you getting tickets for?? LOL,
Rope length would depend on how the wake looks at those speeds for the most part, just play around with it a little, |
^^ I never really worried about actual length of the rope. As noted above, the right rope length puts you in the best spot on the wake based on your speed. Speed is based more on your weight. I'm anywhere from 215-225lbs so I always rode my DD at around 23mph because when I cut I could pull the boat over and slow it down. I could also tell if I was going too slow by cutting in to the wake and whether if felt like I was sinking more. Ultimately, you need to just play around a bit.
Get yourself a set of 400's or even bigger and stick them on either side of the doghouse. Those with your people weight should be a great start. |
Quote:
Smaller bags will work, but 750s are so common you might as well get them. You can always just fill them halfway if you don’t want all 2250lbs of ballast. But if you go with smaller bags then you’re stuck. Oh, I almost forgot... the ski locker is the best way to add weight without losing space in that boat. You can get a ski locker sack that will hold about 300 (I think fly high calls theirs the tube sack, and it is rated for like 375 but there isn’t enough room in that boat's ski locker for it to fill completely). You could get 2 750s along with the ski locker sack and only fill the 750s halfway. Then later if you decide you want more weight you can add another sack in the bow walkway and fill the 750s completely. |
As for speed, with 3 750s half full (~1100lbs) you probably want to go between 20-21mph. With 2200lbs you’ll probably have to speed up some (22-23) to keep the wake clean. When I have my ballast completely full (2500lbs) I have to go at least 22.7 to keep the wake clean on both sides.
From my experience the wake behind that hull is pretty wide. I ride 70’ at 23mph behind my boat, and 75’ at 23mph behind my buddy’s Nautique 210. At 20-21 mph the wake will be even wider so if you have a rope that goes down to 65’ or maybe even 60’, then that would be a good length to try. |
2 Attachment(s)
i'm still iffy about the tint. it's growing on me though. the other pic is the wake no weight 19 mph. tickets for skiing after dark and improper equipment. bogus tickets,
|
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 4:29 AM. |