The problem is that Trump is the wrong guy to get pretty much get anything done. Even if he's on the right side of an issue, he pisses everyone off by acting like an impetulant child who has to have his way and wants all the credit. Absolutely the wrong way to get people to cooperate, especially in the political arena. Instead of getting intelligent articulate people to make a sound case, he believes that his bombastic accusations and a racist narrative will convince people to see his side.
The claim that everyone wanted a wall until Trump arrived just supports the claim that Trump is the wrong guy. There is a reason for that. People know that anything he pursues is ill conceived and solely for the purpose of self-aggrandizing. They want an intelligent leader before they commit put their faith and money. You don't give money to an idiot. I can imagine that people are going to reply that Trump is accomplishing great things from China and N Korea, but that's counting your chickens before they hatch. It's pretty much self evident that the way to beat Trump is to flatter him and give him apparent wins that translate to nothing down the road. |
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The more wall, the less of your expensive assets have to be used in the areas of the walls. It is not that the wall will completely seal the border. You can now move personnel to the actual hot spots. You guys act like we do not already have border walls with mexico and this is a new thing. Illegals cost california billions every year. The third largest GNP product for Mexico is cash directly leaving the local American economy. I believe that is over $50 billion alone. 2003 numbers for california were around $15 billion in services rendered. Then you have massive extra infastructure usage. Water usage and so on. All this is passed on the middle class so the democrats can have more voters voting for hand outs from the public money. Get enough in the country and you can turn the country socialist by using the ballot box. To answer if mexico is going to pay for it? They would. They would have to pay for all their people that they can not pawn off on us for education, healthcare, cash relocation and so on. |
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Fences; I built a fence around property. Can you jump it & get in my yard? Sure can. Do the kids run through my property anymore? No. Do people use my yard as a short cut to open space anymore? No. The simple reduction in the numbers is what matters. |
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We do have the money for the wall. It is easy if people wanted to do it. This is a political issue. The democrats do not want to turn the Illegals, who may end of voting and certainly their children who will vote, against them. The money is not the issue at all. One ship in our navy costs that much. California spends more than that in less than 1/4 of a year on illegals alone. |
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Where as in the states you don't provide those services and still spend more money than you collect and argue that you should be spending more. I find it amazing that conservatives think this way. |
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Aus's surplus is also the first one in 14-15 years? Your population is 25 million I think? We're 300 million with 24 million illegals. Most of the world has actually been better off with our stupidity except those we bomb & replace leaders we don't like then cry that Russia spent a few thousand on facebook ads, Like it or not, America is America because of the global hegemony we have. And in turn our allys have good place & it pisses Russia & China off so they want their piece of the globe & us gone. Only that hurts us economically & we're not having it, we like our way of life & expensive boats. They threaten that & I personally don't want either having the big stick. We have that solely because of our weapons & technology. So yo, **** the poor they can get jobs & pay for their insurance like the rest of us. |
I'm from NZ
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Hey if you like Gretta Van or LED Zepplen check out this video
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=upBWWm86PXU |
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Well Chump blinked & canceled the SOTU. Guys a pussy & a liar. Next
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And there are others who could probably say that no, the republicans weren't being obstructionist a-holes, they were doing their patriotic and constitutional duty to act as a check on an overreaching democrat president and his administration. <--- consider that dems could see their function this way too. |
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Obama and Dems voted for increased border security measures. Now a measly $5B is keeping the gov't shutdown ongoing. still democracy? |
I thought i would check out and do some research on Socialized Healthcare. At first it seems like it is very similar to ours, but it's not even close. You just have to be happy with what you can get and pray that things do not get worse.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw
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I love that Trump tweeted:
"....alternative venue for the SOTU Address because there is no venue that can compete with the history, tradition and importance of the House Chamber. I look forward to giving a “great” State of the Union Address in the near future!" Putting the word "great" makes this one of his first honest self-evaluations. |
Who has Amazons Alexa?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MECcIJW67-M
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Measly works both ways. Why keep the govt shut down over this? Reopen then negotiate like a grownup. |
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"In New Zealand's public health system it is typical for medical appointments, particularly surgeries to have a waiting list. District Health Boards are typical judged in the media and by government in part based on the length of these lists. In 2016, it was inferred that many people required surgery but were not put on the official list.[15] Research projected that of all the people who had been told they needed surgery less than half were on the official list. However, the main concern noted by heath industry observers was the overall increase in waiting time, about 304 days" Waiting damn near a year for surgery doesn't happen in the states if you're insured. Doesn't happen either if you're not insured because it's illegal to deny anyone care. Stick to your own country, Ralph, I like you & you're level headed like Shawn but you don't know jack **** about the whys |
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I do believe ATC are essential employees. should have privatized when they had the chance. |
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You get to three missed paychecks and you are gonna have some angry folks. |
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You have money left over as well because you don't have a military that has had to bail out the world twice and then continued (s) to bail out the world with military spending to keep the bad actors in check. Remove our world commitment to the military for world affairs and then check our budget. |
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If your point is the US spend way to much on military I agree with you. |
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No doubt the indigenous people here got a rough deal and we have work to do in reparations but I feel like they are treated with more respect than the Indians or aboriginals in Ausy. Average tax is not 33%, that's the top tax rate, the average income are taxed @ 18.5% plus we have a universal sales tax @ 15%. No state tax. Yes, we pay more tax and recieve more services but you can't get away from the fact that the US spend twice what we do per capita on Healthcare yet it seems many people are not looked after. So that's why I give my perspective from the outside, I feel like you guys are being let down by your leaders, they could do a lot better. |
Oh and I looked up, NZ spend 1.1% of gdp on defense which is about the same as Germany and Canada. I don't apologize for it, I think spending 3.5% of gdp is way too much and the military industrial complex is discusting.
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My wife's good friends brother in law had cancer treatments and he did not have a job or insurance. My wife when she was a teen/ early 20's did not have insurance. Went to county hospital and had wrist surgery. Graduated scale.She was so young and broke, it cost nothing. It took time to schedule. Unfortunately most of the county hospitals are in the bad areas especially in the cities and most suburban people are not going to drive over there (little to dark outside for their liking). They are also crowded with high demand. Most hospitals are private hospitals but are mandated that they have to provide services. Well, they are going to try and give you a bill. You have the other situation where illegal immigration is adding millions of people to a system that are not paying taxes for that system. Many of the hospitals in high illegal areas have shut down. You also have a difference on what people and hospitals call a real issue. Are the people really sick or are they just walking with a limp because they crashed on a wakeboard. In a tax payer funded model, the wakeboard limp may not be a high priority. Bankruptcy is a financial tool. It allows you to go before a judge and have the judge determine a plan for you to pay debts. I admit it is complicated. I don't believe I knew anyone who had insurance growing up. Also our doctors and nurses pay their own way through school so they are absorbing all the risk. We are not socializing their education and the supposed socialistic education system is out of control with their costs. On the military. I am glad we spend what we do on it, however that is a reason why our budgets are different than most of the worlds. |
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Socialized medial is stating that a person has to render services to us no matter what. That is indentured servitude. You are correct if you are not poor you will get a bill. yet we do not change our behaviors. Why is that? Because it truly does not cost individuals enough that it changes their behaviors. |
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You may dislike the military industrial complex but it is why you are typing to us right now and not speaking Japanese. |
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Tax and benefits is part of the social contract, you are part of a society which agrees together that there will be some sharing of costs for the greater good. This provides all sorts of things like police, firemen, military, retirement, education and Healthcare. Together people get to decide the relative level of personal cost and benefit. That's what this discussion is about, how much you pay, what is provided and how competent those that structure the system are. |
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I also believe you should not keep raising taxes against the will of the middle class because the rich can afford it and they purposely sponsor the poor and illegals so they can have near slave labor to do their bidding. The rich and the illegals/ poor outnumber the middle class in California. All while they price the middle class out of existence and make the price of entering the middle class too high. You really should see how many tent cities exist under the freeway overpasses in California now. Didn't california just get pegged as one of the worst standard of living states in America? |
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Conversely, Social Security, unemployment, labor, Medical and Health was 60% of the budget. That was 2.28 Trillion spend on the people directly. This was just the federal budget. Each state has a few billion for each state that they spend each year and the state budgets do not include military. California's budget alone is around $200 billion a year. |
[QUOTE=DeltaHoosier;1984809]The rich and the illegals/ poor outnumber the middle class in California. All while they price the middle class out of existence and make the price of entering the middle class too high./QUOTE]
So you support a progressive tax rate that increases as you move further away from the middle class? Great, so do I. |
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Besides, weren't you one of the ones on this thread complaining about Trump pulling out of Syria? Isn't that one of those money and life saving decisions that are more isolationist? |
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[QUOTE=ralph;1984813]
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You mean this one: https://media.nationalpriorities.org...15_enacted.png |
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If I had no insurance they most likely would have sent me home without removing it. And I would have probably been back later with another stone. But I had HI and they took care of it. Have cancer and you're poor w/ no HI? It's probably a toss of the coin as to how much treatment you will get. HI was socialized in the workplace before the ACA. If you had a preexisting condition you would still get HI from your employer. If you were fat, you paid the same as the uber-fit dude in the next cubicle that's the same age. UHC is in the future. It's just a matter of time. The attempt to make HC a free market while at the same time dividing society into HC haves and have nots through employers and IRS plans is what's going to be the cause. Then businesses are dividing up between have and have not HI plans. The ACA tried to counter that. Get enough have nots who vote and boom! UHC. |
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I am sure it is a toss of the coin on how much treatment you get because people have to stay on budget. You having cancer is not the peoples problem. In any other society and any other time in history, that is a death sentence. Still is in American even though we spend billions a year on it. The ACA was going to usher in an absolute budget control just like they have in England. You won't have the luxury of special treatments or in your case a $130,000 just in case surgery. I agree that money in the industry has created haves and have nots. I have been saying that for years. Now the have nots want what they have do. Also, it makes it so doctors do not want to work with the have nots. and most important, the educational system that was supposedly a idealistic institution are raping people for medical (and any training for that matter) because they know they can get hundreds of thousands from these future doctors. |
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ACA subsidies are presumably in the Medicare & Health section. It would be nice to see Medicare separated so we could get a feel for actual comparable spending. And a number for medicare revenue vs spending. Take out Medicare and SS, then that graph would be more interesting. Also would like a number for tax revenue lost to HI deductions. Some IRS plans also get revenue from FICA as well. |
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Could you be independently wealthy if you were able to invest that non tax tax (or is it a tax with a different name?)? Medicare is a different tax too. Some people like their cucumbers pickelled. Still a tax. You can say the same about they tax for road right? I get to use them so it must not be a tax and according to you, it must not be part of the budget because we get a benefit from it. In all this discussion, this budget talk still does not count the TRILLIONS in state taxes from around the country that does not get spent on military or social security. |
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Shows how easy it is to tell a narrative with statistics I guess. Regardless, I still contend you could halve the military spending, do better with the education and Healthcare spending and run a budget surplus if things were better managed. I don't think you need to spend more on Healthcare, just get the insurance and pharmaceutical industries out of lobbying and make real changes to the industry. |
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When the tax is just general fed tax revenue with no specific purpose, then all spending from that tax is comparable. The other point I was making is that tax deductions are just a mirror image of spending. And to really understand how the govt money is used to affect markets you need to put both spending and revenue diversion in the cart. |
So Segway to Trump calling a state of emergency and funding the wall this way, does anybody here support that? Does that open the door for the next democratic president to declare climate change or healthcare a state of emergency to fund their pet project?
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Pharmaceuticals we can talk about those dogs. Insurance? Not sure they are the bad guys in this. They do take a small percent but they are just the middle man. They take in the money from whoever is paying for the insurance. Usually companies. They get a contract on the companies behalf with health networks and the costs of the plans are mostly driven by usage. People are not after insurance. They are after maintenance plans and repair plans. There is very little about emergency in our society when we culturally are breaking ourselves up, over working, drinking, taking drugs, eating poorly, and so on. The insurance companies are trying to do 2 things. Keep collecting money based on usage from the members and they really win if they can delay your end of life care until age 65 so they can kick you to medicare. We as employees and employers have been paying into medicare for around 45 years at 4.5% or 7% (I believe) and this is only to pay for our end of life medical. If you look at it from purely a cost standpoint, you literally would want everyone to die by the age of 50 for the biggest cost savings. At the end of the day a life ending even is going to cost nearly the same is you are young or old. It is expensive. Statistically the older you get, the more serious issues you are going to have prior to getting to the over age of 65. Gal Bladder issues, knee replacements, neck fusions, near death experiences that may land a younger person in permanent care vs killing an older person. It is still cheaper for insurance companies to pay out for these other serious but non fatal issues than it is for them to pay for your end of life care. that is why they will spend money for preventative. You literally pay for 45 years at those percentages just so you can afford marginal end of life care. |
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Maybe some of you commies can pitch in and help Uncle George pay his bills. 21st Century brownshirts.https://www.facebook.com/huns.goide/...1MjU3MjQ1NTk0/
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Giving tax breaks for insurance. Not sure companies get tax breaks for offering insurance. What is not happening is double taxation by taxing employees for it. The money is being taxed. |
The longer the shutdown goes, the lower Trumps approval rating goes 34%
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Makes me angry but then I take my tinfoil hat off and I feel better. |
In case you missed the votes today, the democrats’ plan got more reublican votes than Trump’s lol
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https://www.newsweek.com/trump-requi...adline-1304549
At this point the Republicans are just the Russian party. |
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So Roger Stone was just arrested and indicted for "lying to Congress". I can't wait to hear the Trumpsters continue to proclaim, "Mueller hasn't found anything". How many arrests, indictments, and convictions have occurred since the beginning of the Mueller investigation? If these were gang bangers or drug kingpins, the Trumpsters would be the biggest Mueller supporters. Let's see if Stone remains loyal to Trump (like Manafort) facing the prospect of jail time.
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How many people suurounding trump have to be arrested before you trumpers start to think that maybe trump is dirty too? |
If trump wanted to see Hillary locked up he should have hired her to work on his campaign. :)
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I had to double check. You are right that the indictment is confined to Stone lying about his Wikileaks contacts. But it is a matter of public record that he also had direct contact with Gucifer Twitter acct, which is presumed to be the front for the Russian hacking team. It’s not like Stone was shocked to learn that the Wikileaks docs originated from Russia. |
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Yeah that crazy leftist Mueller lol. I think Rob has a clue how the law works. And Guccifer 2.0 is Russian military intelligence according to the indictments.
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